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JF17 BLK4-----Major Upgrade & Replacement For F16's

@MastanKhan
Buddy i know you mean well but you keep repeating same old thing again and again
All those points you made well they simply are not viable

Aesa Radar is bit bigger than your normal radars few project of mini aesa are in the market so its a vs vs game and you need to change nose of your bird means changing in air frame. Because this beast have problem it gets extremely hot
Extending wings and more hard points changes in tanks and wheel its almost creating a new platform and you also need a better powerful engine to do that so evolution of bird is a slow process you cant keep changing your priorities every time you see some thing flashy
As for your Kill Switch crying lets just your do called myth is reality i don't see pakistan going to war with uncle sam in near future
No matter what happens uncle sam wont use this option until paf is directly fighting us military .
All the things you are talking will make thunder a 50+m a pop which it was never meant to be

As for f16 can you put any name of any bird in market in the same price range gives same capabilities to paf
1st getting cheap 2 well proven 3 easy spares 4 available of infrastructure 5 tech knowledge
And even if worst comes Turkey is also a dependable option[/QUOTE]

Buddy what are you talking abour are you an astrologist who can tell future how can you be so sure us is not gonna wage a war against pak its not up to us its up to them they ll wage a war when they would like too and all your f16 will be sitting ducks and turkey is a nato member incase of sanction wont be able to assist with f16 you guys simply tend to defy logic mig35 su35 j10 b rafael eurofighter all have aesa su30 mig29 getting aesa soon
You dont see an aircraft in the world in the league of f16 wow I am simply speechless the top brass at paf is blind similerly like you
 
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So---if there is a belief for some in pakistan that kill switches are not real---well then let them live in illusion ---for others---it is time to act.[/QUOT]
Are you also of the opinions that Kill Switch is real ?
 
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Hi,

I wrote this article a few hours ago and mailed it to dawn and express tribune----but looking at this major news coming out on dawn that we need 190 aircraft by 2020---here is the article

The threat of the " anytime sanctions during 30 years into future " by the U S senator on the F16's, must be negated by the pakistan air force. This is just an eye opener kind of disclaimer given by U S senator Corker to Pakistan in good american faith.

And as always----the U S has told Pakistan upfront in what maybe coming anytime in the future if things go awry. By now---we should be able to understand what may trigger the sanctions by the indian dominated U S congress and senate. It maybe be an attack on the U S soil by terrorists of Pakistan origin---an attack on the Indian soil by terrorists and other similar acts.

The pakistanis may chose to disagree or agree on who the terrorists maybe and what their agenda
could be---but the fact will remain that it may result in sanctions.

To confront that and to take charge of the problem---the paf needs to think out of the box and make some serious changes to the design of the JF17 aircraft on a fastrak to combat the issue.

It needs to look at the size of the Japanese F2 fighter aircraft in comparison to the size of the F16. They designed a slightly larger aircraft that could carry more weight of weapons than the F16 and other equipment and added an aesa fire control radar.

The Japanese are a small nation----and they know that they have an enemy with a larger air force. The first batch of the F2's may have some issues but the later ones did well--. The idea behind it is extremely thoughtful---and that is where the needs of pakistan air force, meet the design challenges and abilities of the current JF17's against their major adversary.

The JF17 program has entered a juncture where it needs to plan for where it needs to be in the next 5 years time frame for its BLK4 aircraft to meet the needs of the un-sanctioned and unhindered defence of pakistani air space---keeping in focus the ever looming open threat made by the U S senator a few days ago and to replace the F16 BLK 52 and take the capabilities of paf to the next level without procuring anymore F16's new or used / refurbished.

The capabilities and capacity of weapons load and electronics also needs to be re-assessed along with the physical structure changes to the aircraft----relocation of current wheels with taller ones---larger power plant---larger wing area and use of composite material to reduce the weight.
The target for the aircraft in weight carrying capacity needs to be in the range of 7000-8000 KG with at least 9-11 hard points.

And as we discussed---to meet the challenge, the size of the aircraft needs to be similar to the japanese F2---which is a slightly larger aircraft than the F16 with a 25% larger wing span.

The wheels of the JF 17 need to be moved outwards like those on the Gripen NG---and it needs to have TALLER wheels for more ground clearance---so that there should not be any problems in mounting heavy air launched cruise missiles like the Hatf V111---anti ship missile like the CM 400 AKG or the air launch version of the Babur cruise missile.

The re-positioning of the wheels must allow it to carry extra fuel in the wing fuel tanks and extending into the side of the main frame as well just like the Gripen NG.The aircraft must also have conformal fuel tanks as well as aerial refuelling capabilities with a hidden refueller receptacle like that on the Tornado.

The wings must support 2 ALCM's or 2 anti ship missiles in the weight range of 1000-1250 KG each and 2 fuel tanks along with the conformal fuel tanks.

In a fighter interceptor mode, it needs to have the ability to carry 8 BVR missiles and 4 WVR missiles on its pylons including 2 fuel tanks plus the conformal tanks if needed depending on the mission. It should also have the ability of buddy refuelling which means that along with conformal fuel tanks---it would be carrying 4 fuel tanks on the wing pylons to refuel other aircraft as an option.

The design of the fuel tanks must be reconfigured and streamline---instead of the round tanks---they must be rectangular / squarish like those on the Gripen NG to give more fuel capacity to each tank and make it more aerodynamic as well.

The aircraft will have a dedicated IRST and off course a potent fire control Aesa radar with at least 1000 T / R modules---high off bore missile launch capability---rear missile launch detection---jammer pod---sniper type pod and all other paraphernalia and electronic gadgetry that makes a first grade fighter interceptor and strike aircraft of the 4.5 gen class---.

The two seater version should be at least 1/4th of the production right from the start---. For the engine---in 2-3 years time there will be many an options available either the chinese version---the russian or the european engine---.

Also the chinese PL15 would be a mature BVR missile by that time and so would be the chinese HOBS ( high off bore sight ) missile as well. This is not taking into account what other items maybe on offer from manufacturers other than the chinese.

Defence equipment manufacturers like Turkish Aselsan---So. African Denel and Italian Selex need to be on board to provide an option for electronics and weapons packages for paf and for other nations who want to buy this aircraft.

This aircraft would basically take over from where the BLK 52 left----it will negate the need for any further induction of the F16's into the paf in a very short period of time and reduce the liability of sanctions to a ZERO.

There would be no need to spend more money for any new F16's or any used / re-furbished F16's either in the near future. Paf must move away from teh F16 once for all.

Pakistan air force and pakistanis should be really weary of the video leaked by wikileaks that showed the british and the U S intel agencies sabotaging the Israeli drone and the Israeli F16---. The capability of these agencies to log into a live feed of the Israeli drone Heron and to show the live feed of an Israeli F16 HUD is something to be very concerned about.

This basically leads into the world of the never ending rumors of " kill switches ". The bottom line over here is that if those agencies can do it to the Israelis---then they can do it to the pakistani F16's as well---and if they have that much control over what is happening inside the cockpit---then there is no reason not to believe that they can control other electronic functions of the aircraft as well when they desire.

So---in reality---the sanctions of the FUTURE are going to be different from the sanctions of the PAST.
Whereas the sanctions of the past were a stoppage to the supply of parts---the sanctions of the future would include that and would also include the sanctions of the ELECTRONIC type as well---in the form of giving denial for the aircraft engine to operate at full power---to negating any missile launch or bomb drop---or curtailing the use of the instrument panel to just shutting down the aircraft.

The reader should understand that in the U S---even car dealers have that technology of kill switches available to them that they sometimes install on cars. These cars are sold to customers with bad credit and on not recieving payments in time and with a warning to the customer the vehicle operation can be stopped just like that by putting a code into the system.

On newer cars---you can call the factory and have them remotely unlock the doors of the cars. Many a high end vehicles have had their brakes hacked---power steering hacked---( current power steerings are not hydraulic powered but powered by an electric motor )---air conditioning systems hacked---engines hacked remotely thru the internet connection that the vehicle has.

So---if there is a belief for some in pakistan that kill switches are not real---well then let them live in illusion ---for others---it is time to act.
Thank you,
Sincerely,
AKA MastanKhan
Defence.pk

@Khafee @Viper0011. @Irfan Baloch

Assalam o Alaikum

We been discussing to upgrade jf17 to its teeth and acquiring heavy jet for deep precision strike for ages.

Since PAF is more focused on defence rather than offence, and there is no possibility of indian strike since it would not be that different than nuke strike. Why spending that much resources without reason to practically apply them.

Also considering that we have the deep precision strike capability with missiles (without using nukes) why acquiring and investing in heavy platforms.
 
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@MastanKhan
Buddy i know you mean well but you keep repeating same old thing again and again
All those points you made well they simply are not viable

Aesa Radar is bit bigger than your normal radars few project of mini aesa are in the market so its a vs vs game and you need to change nose of your bird means changing in air frame. Because this beast have problem it gets extremely hot
Extending wings and more hard points changes in tanks and wheel its almost creating a new platform and you also need a better powerful engine to do that so evolution of bird is a slow process you cant keep changing your priorities every time you see some thing flashy
As for your Kill Switch crying lets just your do called myth is reality i don't see pakistan going to war with uncle sam in near future
No matter what happens uncle sam wont use this option until paf is directly fighting us military .
All the things you are talking will make thunder a 50+m a pop which it was never meant to be

As for f16 can you put any name of any bird in market in the same price range gives same capabilities to paf
1st getting cheap 2 well proven 3 easy spares 4 available of infrastructure 5 tech knowledge
And even if worst comes Turkey is also a dependable option



Hi,

Right now---there should be at least 2 aesa radars available for the JF17---.

Gripen NG has done the modifications---and if you read what they have done---it is not a major major change---. This is basically a 1 year project----.

You already have a successful operating model in the current JF17---if it cannot be scaled up---then there is a problem---.

The thunder is meant to free us of our dependence---so if it is 50 mil a pop or 30 mil a pop---is not a concern---.

The current aircraft cost us around 15 + mil a piece. The modified one would cost around maybe 18 at the low end and 25 mil at the high end a piece + aesa----plus you will also have a much bigger EXPORT market for that aircraft.

PS:---The drawing of single engine twin tail is a reality---it is pakistani version of the F35.
 
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Hi,

Right now---there should be at least 2 aesa radars available for the JF17---.

Gripen NG has done the modifications---and if you read what they have done---it is not a major major change---. This is basically a 1 year project----.

You already have a successful operating model in the current JF17---if it cannot be scaled up---then there is a problem---.

The thunder is meant to free us of our dependence---so if it is 50 mil a pop or 30 mil a pop---is not a concern---.

The current aircraft cost us around 15 + mil a piece. The modified one would cost around maybe 18 at the low end and 25 mil at the high end a piece + aesa----plus you will also have a much bigger EXPORT market for that aircraft.

PS:---The drawing of single engine twin tail is a reality---it is pakistani version of the F35.


Normally tail / rudder control the Yaw (rotation around the vertical axis) whereas Pitch is controlled by the elevators & the Roll by the ailerons. Aerodynamically speaking, a twin tail would increase surface area of the rudder thereby making rotation around vertical axis easier. In some propeller aircrafts twin tails were installed to counter effect of the slip stream as well.

However, twin tail would also make the aircraft more stable and since most modern fighters are designed to be unstable, these days twin tail arrangement is used mostly in the aircraft with twin engines as this helps reduce the overall weight of the aircraft. Besides, having two rudders would also provide additional safeguard if one of rudder fails.

Is a single engined fighter with twin tails is really under consideration by Pakistan? Will it be a modified JF-17?
 
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Assalam o Alaikum

We been discussing to upgrade jf17 to its teeth and acquiring heavy jet for deep precision strike for ages.

Since PAF is more focused on defence rather than offence, and there is no possibility of indian strike since it would not be that different than nuke strike. Why spending that much resources without reason to practically apply them.

Also considering that we have the deep precision strike capability with missiles (without using nukes) why acquiring and investing in heavy platforms.


Hi,

Missiles are no answer for strike air craft.

Nothing breaks the psyche of an enemy when the citizens see the opponents aircraft flying deep down the country. That makes the investors and capital run out the country fast.

M



Mastaan,

You are loosing it again. You have no right or qualifications to go around pretending to be the only aviation and PAF expert on this forum and putting other members down. You know what I can do to you. Please take your medications, take a deep breath and chill.


Hi,

So---you are back----are you not one of those who criticized me years ago when I was talking about how long it would take to integrate the aircraft and weapons---and you were the one talking about simulators and what not---. I remember you---

You know dude---bul-sh-it walk----so take a walk. Go eat some crow.

Normally tail / rudder control the Yaw (rotation around the vertical axis) whereas Pitch is controlled by the elevators & the Roll by the ailerons. Aerodynamically speaking, a twin tail would increase surface area of the rudder thereby making rotation around vertical axis easier. In some propeller aircrafts twin tails were installed to counter effect of the slip stream as well.

However, twin tail would also make the aircraft more stable and since most modern fighters are designed to be unstable, these days twin tail arrangement is used mostly in the aircraft with twin engines as this helps reduce the overall weight of the aircraft. Besides, having two rudders would also provide additional safeguard if one of rudder fails.

Is a single engined fighter with twin tails is really under consideration by Pakistan? Will it be a modified JF-17?

Hi,

The twin tail would be more for stealth.
 
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I wrote this article a few hours ago and mailed it to dawn and express tribune----but looking at this major news coming out on dawn that we need 190 aircraft by 2020---here is the article

The threat of the " anytime sanctions during 30 years into future " by the U S senator on the F16's, must be negated by the pakistan air force. This is just an eye opener kind of disclaimer given by U S senator Corker to Pakistan in good american faith.

And as always----the U S has told Pakistan upfront in what maybe coming anytime in the future if things go awry. By now---we should be able to understand what may trigger the sanctions by the indian dominated U S congress and senate. It maybe be an attack on the U S soil by terrorists of Pakistan origin---an attack on the Indian soil by terrorists and other similar acts.

The pakistanis may chose to disagree or agree on who the terrorists maybe and what their agenda
could be---but the fact will remain that it may result in sanctions.

To confront that and to take charge of the problem---the paf needs to think out of the box and make some serious changes to the design of the JF17 aircraft on a fastrak to combat the issue.

It needs to look at the size of the Japanese F2 fighter aircraft in comparison to the size of the F16. They designed a slightly larger aircraft that could carry more weight of weapons than the F16 and other equipment and added an aesa fire control radar.

The Japanese are a small nation----and they know that they have an enemy with a larger air force. The first batch of the F2's may have some issues but the later ones did well--. The idea behind it is extremely thoughtful---and that is where the needs of pakistan air force, meet the design challenges and abilities of the current JF17's against their major adversary.

The JF17 program has entered a juncture where it needs to plan for where it needs to be in the next 5 years time frame for its BLK4 aircraft to meet the needs of the un-sanctioned and unhindered defence of pakistani air space---keeping in focus the ever looming open threat made by the U S senator a few days ago and to replace the F16 BLK 52 and take the capabilities of paf to the next level without procuring anymore F16's new or used / refurbished.

The capabilities and capacity of weapons load and electronics also needs to be re-assessed along with the physical structure changes to the aircraft----relocation of current wheels with taller ones---larger power plant---larger wing area and use of composite material to reduce the weight.
The target for the aircraft in weight carrying capacity needs to be in the range of 7000-8000 KG with at least 9-11 hard points.

And as we discussed---to meet the challenge, the size of the aircraft needs to be similar to the japanese F2---which is a slightly larger aircraft than the F16 with a 25% larger wing span.

The wheels of the JF 17 need to be moved outwards like those on the Gripen NG---and it needs to have TALLER wheels for more ground clearance---so that there should not be any problems in mounting heavy air launched cruise missiles like the Hatf V111---anti ship missile like the CM 400 AKG or the air launch version of the Babur cruise missile.

The re-positioning of the wheels must allow it to carry extra fuel in the wing fuel tanks and extending into the side of the main frame as well just like the Gripen NG.The aircraft must also have conformal fuel tanks as well as aerial refuelling capabilities with a hidden refueller receptacle like that on the Tornado.

The wings must support 2 ALCM's or 2 anti ship missiles in the weight range of 1000-1250 KG each and 2 fuel tanks along with the conformal fuel tanks.

In a fighter interceptor mode, it needs to have the ability to carry 8 BVR missiles and 4 WVR missiles on its pylons including 2 fuel tanks plus the conformal tanks if needed depending on the mission. It should also have the ability of buddy refuelling which means that along with conformal fuel tanks---it would be carrying 4 fuel tanks on the wing pylons to refuel other aircraft as an option.

The design of the fuel tanks must be reconfigured and streamline---instead of the round tanks---they must be rectangular / squarish like those on the Gripen NG to give more fuel capacity to each tank and make it more aerodynamic as well.

The aircraft will have a dedicated IRST and off course a potent fire control Aesa radar with at least 1000 T / R modules---high off bore missile launch capability---rear missile launch detection---jammer pod---sniper type pod and all other paraphernalia and electronic gadgetry that makes a first grade fighter interceptor and strike aircraft of the 4.5 gen class---.

The two seater version should be at least 1/4th of the production right from the start---. For the engine---in 2-3 years time there will be many an options available either the chinese version---the russian or the european engine---.

Also the chinese PL15 would be a mature BVR missile by that time and so would be the chinese HOBS ( high off bore sight ) missile as well. This is not taking into account what other items maybe on offer from manufacturers other than the chinese.

Defence equipment manufacturers like Turkish Aselsan---So. African Denel and Italian Selex need to be on board to provide an option for electronics and weapons packages for paf and for other nations who want to buy this aircraft.

This aircraft would basically take over from where the BLK 52 left----it will negate the need for any further induction of the F16's into the paf in a very short period of time and reduce the liability of sanctions to a ZERO.

There would be no need to spend more money for any new F16's or any used / re-furbished F16's either in the near future. Paf must move away from teh F16 once for all.

Pakistan air force and pakistanis should be really weary of the video leaked by wikileaks that showed the british and the U S intel agencies sabotaging the Israeli drone and the Israeli F16---. The capability of these agencies to log into a live feed of the Israeli drone Heron and to show the live feed of an Israeli F16 HUD is something to be very concerned about.

This basically leads into the world of the never ending rumors of " kill switches ". The bottom line over here is that if those agencies can do it to the Israelis---then they can do it to the pakistani F16's as well---and if they have that much control over what is happening inside the cockpit---then there is no reason not to believe that they can control other electronic functions of the aircraft as well when they desire.

So---in reality---the sanctions of the FUTURE are going to be different from the sanctions of the PAST.
Whereas the sanctions of the past were a stoppage to the supply of parts---the sanctions of the future would include that and would also include the sanctions of the ELECTRONIC type as well---in the form of giving denial for the aircraft engine to operate at full power---to negating any missile launch or bomb drop---or curtailing the use of the instrument panel to just shutting down the aircraft.

The reader should understand that in the U S---even car dealers have that technology of kill switches available to them that they sometimes install on cars. These cars are sold to customers with bad credit and on not recieving payments in time and with a warning to the customer the vehicle operation can be stopped just like that by putting a code into the system.

On newer cars---you can call the factory and have them remotely unlock the doors of the cars. Many a high end vehicles have had their brakes hacked---power steering hacked---( current power steerings are not hydraulic powered but powered by an electric motor )---air conditioning systems hacked---engines hacked remotely thru the internet connection that the vehicle has.

So---if there is a belief for some in pakistan that kill switches are not real---well then let them live in illusion ---for others---it is time to act.
Thank you,
Sincerely,
AKA MastanKhan

Thanks a lot for this very informative and well written artical new comers like me learn a lot from your posts sir,and its because of seniore thoughtful members like you we keep comming to this forum once again many thanks sir :-)]

My man,

I thought you were more intelligent than that----you disappoint me---.

You think after writing for 25 years and reading thousand of books I do not know what friend or foe is.

I am giving you techincal reasoning---I am telling you that in the U S we car dealer put kill switches on cars---I have given you examples of late model vehicles being hacked out of control---I have been telling you that it is a requirement of Homeland security that all aircraft after 2007 have kill switches in them---regardless they are flown by the U S pilots or anyone else or U S military pilots---and you are telling me that it is 'friend or foe'---.

Pak air force is a fckd up organization---is that what you wanted to hear---. This organization has not been held accountable for its failures for the last 50 years---noone has held the air chief's feet to the fire for the failure---and you trust them---?????



Hi,

Without the aesa---would be around 20-25 million apiece for if the number goes above 150---that is for paf. With aesa---you can add 5 million on the high side.

For other buyers---it could be around 35-40 million a piece.

Remember---this is not a major major transformation---. With available funds---I would say the project would take around 1 year.
Paf is indeed a big time fucked up organization and this we ll realize after a war ciz we r a fkng sleeping nation we wake up after a trategy and start accounting then like 1971

I agree infact we have three options one europeon vixen1000 from selex anglo italian firm the other two are chineese the one being used on j10 fron nanjing electronic institute and another one from different chineese firm but for aesa we need a more powerful.engine rd93ma or latest ws13
 
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on other threads, it has been discussed to death..that we need a twin engine fighter...but practically no heavy is available to us ..mostly due to money and partially due to political reasons
So if we want to have a twin engine...it is best case scenario that we have a JV with China.....doesn't matter we have to re-design it completely...Actually..we don't have to start from scratch...that was JF-17..but now with the understanding from JF-17...we will be in much better position to design another jet.
It will have following benefits
1. No dependence on others(just like JF-17)
2. the deficiency of long range and heavy pay load aircraft will be removed
3. All the weapon package of JF-17 can be used

Meanwhile we can wait for J31(which also uses al

No body is welding another engine....I am talking about a new design of a double engine jet....JV with China...upto j-11 standards..jet...that can fill our needs.


No doubt, other platforms are more capable...but are they available to us...NO...that's why u need to do something for that...u can't just sit and wait that One day Pak economy wil become sooooo big that we can purchase any weapon....that's not the attitude to tackle a problem.
And also, for stealth..there is no word on ,how the progress is going on with J31...so atleast for 10 years ...forget stealth for PAF...only USA has operational stealth jet right now, China nad Russia are alos in testing phase...and they won't sell J20 or PAKFA to u...F-35 has many issues ...Also do u think stealth will be easy to purchase...we ar not able to buy 4th gen twin engine due to money...how can u expect Pak to buy 5th gen in huge numbers????
 
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Thing is ..................... you are making such sort of claim which is not even discussed once on forum. A joint heavy aircraft just like Jf17. And you are mentioning few things like

1: It is duel engine heavy aircraft
2: Reduced RCS
3: Heavy payload.

So making such claims will surely create doubts and curiosity at the same times.
As far as I remember, your father is in Kamra, right? So I guess I should trust you................... but if you really know ''something'' then I recommend you to discuss it with Mods first and then break any silence here. Its not appropriate to disclose any thing which can hit country interests...............so plz first co operate with mods :-)

@waz @Irfan Baloch @Horus @Windjammer @balixd @Oscar

guys, deal this matter plz..................................we have some classified news......................:blink:
I agree with you
@DMP if you are privy to some confidential information then you need to keep it confidential, if you somehow get to know things that are meant to be off the public then keep it that way.

this is not meant to disrespect you. you need to be responsible specially when we have suffered badly due to terror attacks on airbases
 
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Uncle Ji, it's nature's evolution that a baby learns to crawl before taking steps to walk and then ends up running around the house and goes on winning Marathons.
After successfully inducting the Block-1 and moving onto Block-2, the work on next version is well into progress.
After implementation and induction of B-3 , I'm sure they will look into whether there's room for further progress in the same airframe or it's time to move on to a new concept. It's also worth remembering that time to time, certain statements are issued for a particular audience and reason. I'm sure after the odd order for 8 Block-52s, you didn't expect another 10 following so soon on the heels.
And those E-mails to the PAF do get delivered however don't expect a prompt reply. !!
I didnt know we have a PAF spokesman on this forum aswel thanks for letting mastan khan know not to expect a prompt reply

Bro can u check kill switch myth with serving pilot, i don't believe it is true.

I dont think a serving us pilot would have a clue let alone paf pilot its installed programmed from the manufacturer its not a extenly attached antena or device tha u see and simply plugg off
 
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Hi,

I need to thank @Quwa for re-igniting the impulse to write about a physical change in the JF17---. Even though I had written about it---but a few lines before.

A change is always ' in relation to what '---why I need it and what it will do for me---what are the costs and what are the benefits.

So---the F16 crisis brought out more material for consideration. The seriousness of the issue has not hit home yet---.

The paf took it as casually as they did the murder of 17 French engineers in karachi and thought nothing would stop their deal for the electronics package.

The purpose of a discussion is to ask for the max and then settle for something between the minimum and max ---keeping in mind the financial constraints.

The JF 17 would be modified---how much and how far will they go is a different story---. But it has to change.

When you declare someone a pariah---you start to demonize them---you keep talking bad things about them all the time---till people start believing that is the truth---others---who maybe future victims would not want to believe that it could happen to them---because they are smarter than us.

So---that is what has happened with pakistan---you people have not fought back this drama created by the U S---so don't even think that other nations would feel vulnerable to electronic sanctions---.
just like your posts sometimes when I write something so powerful I wish that some people read it and understand it what I am talking about and if they engage in a discussion then thats even better.

I wish people understand fully how nicely you described our recent past in few sentences.

few comments to your points raised

  • JF-17 proposed/hopeful change in relation to F-16 recent saga ( provided if the penny dropped)
  • the tragedy of French murder was not just that incident but the continued F off I dont care mentality that lead to PN and PAF base attacks as well as shutting us out from the most desirable goods for modern jets
  • the American generals describe Pakistanis more or less what you have said out our guys. they just cant make up their mind let alone counter the propaganda against them.
  • I worked in Rockwell Collins on a temporary contract assignment and the employees from a certain ethnicity were observing a a religious duty to shit talk about Pakistan even if the topic of discussion was weather in Colombia or eating habits of middle aged white people from Nordic countries.
 
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Hi,

Missiles are no answer for strike air craft.

Nothing breaks the psyche of an enemy when the citizens see the opponents aircraft flying deep down the country. That makes the investors and capital run out the country fast.

What about the effects on the psyche of an enemy who does not know when and from where a mach 3 4 missile gonna land that they may not even see and all of a sudden BOOM !!

This has a much bigger effect on psych than seeing a plane that they may even shoot down and kill the pilot (enemy) or capture him and give medals to their soldiers
 
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Thing is ..................... you are making such sort of claim which is not even discussed once on forum. A joint heavy aircraft just like Jf17. And you are mentioning few things like

1: It is duel engine heavy aircraft
2: Reduced RCS
3: Heavy payload.

So making such claims will surely create doubts and curiosity at the same times.
As far as I remember, your father is in Kamra, right? So I guess I should trust you................... but if you really know ''something'' then I recommend you to discuss it with Mods first and then break any silence here. Its not appropriate to disclose any thing which can hit country interests...............so plz first co operate with mods :-)

@waz @Irfan Baloch @Horus @Windjammer @balixd @Oscar

guys, deal this matter plz..................................we have some classified news......................:blink:

Something just on drawing board and highly classified way too go ,ACM him self many projects like jf17s are going on in kamra classifief ?
 
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What about the effects on the psyche of an enemy who does not know when and from where a mach 3 4 missile gonna land that they may not even see and all of a sudden BOOM !!

This has a much bigger effect on psych that seeing a plane that they may even shoot down and kill the pilot (enemy) or capture him and give medals to their soldiers

Hi,

You are correct----the missile just tears the heart away----there is not doubt about that---.

But keep in mind the aspect of a heavy strike aircraft launching weapons---they are also " cruise missiles "----. They just give a lots of flexibility and target selection.
 
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