JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Tehmasib]

must watch 7.37

 

[sancho]

The flying wing design was chosen not because of its inherent low radar observable nature but because of its inherent long range capability. Hitler wanted a weapon that could strike CONUS and aerodynamicists already knew that for intercontinental distances, a high lift and low drag design is a must. The flying wing was it. Its low radar observable nature is incidental.

That's not correct! The purpose of the Ho 229 was indeed a low RCS to avoid detection by British radar, since that was their big problem at the western front. Hilters fighters and bombers had the range to strike deep and if he wasn't so fascinated by the V2 missiles, or not to open up a 2nd front and focused more on the jet fighters and these first stealth aircrafts, the war might have gone a different way.

 

[gambit]

That's not correct! The purpose of the Ho 229 was indeed a low RCS to avoid detection by British radar, since that was their big problem at the western front. Hilters fighters and bombers had the range to strike deep and if he wasn't so fascinated by the V2 missiles, or not to open up a 2nd front and focused more on the jet fighters and these first stealth aircrafts, the war might have gone a different way.

It is/was true. The flying wing's low RCS was already well known, but so was its long range capability, the latter was more important to Hitler. The Luftwaffe at that time had nothing comparable even to the B-17, let alone the more capable B-29 or the versatile B-25. The flying wing design was the only chance Hitler had at striking CONUS, which if succeeded, Hitler hoped to replicate what the Americans did to Imperial Japan with the Doolittle raid -- forcing the Americans to retain a good portion of their military for homeland defense. There is always a gamble that the Americans would strike at Germany even harder to accelerate Germany's defeat, but that was a gamble Hitler was willing to take.

 

[SQ8]

I don't see any need to stop the plane from Russia in China when they can Bring the engines directly to Pakistan fort assembly.

The Engines come to Pakistan directly..
The section of the fuselage is assembled in China, where it is then shipped to Pakistan for final assembly with the rest of the aircraft(manufactured locally).

 

[SBD-3]

The Engines come to Pakistan directly..
The section of the fuselage is assembled in China, where it is then shipped to Pakistan for final assembly with the rest of the aircraft(manufactured locally).

About engines, i would then like to know the role of China in this transation because AFAIK the deal of engines was actually between Russia and China with right to re-export these engines to six other countries inculding Pakistan. The deal conveyed a sense that what Russia would release engines to China, which then, had the right to release these engines to Pakistan. Probably thats why China was able to secure the deal with Russia overlooking Indian protests because it wasn't Russia-Pakistan but rather Sino-Rus deal. So Can you elaborate on this?

 

[ChineseLuver]

 

[ababeel22]

is it only me or anyone else also thinks that color of the jet indicates increased usage of composites???

 

[farhan_9909]

no IFR

hence older picture of block 1

 

[ababeel22]

is there any bit of solid information on block2?? some say its j21 some say there wont be any big changes, is any work on block2 even in progress? any info from credible sources plzz

 

[abdulbarijan]

is there any bit of solid information on block2?? some say its j21 some say there wont be any big changes, is any work on block2 even in progress? any info from credible sources plzz

First of all
Block II is not a STEALTH FIGHTER (J-2X series)
Secondly there are minor upgrades on block II which are

-Radar upgrades
-Some avionics upgrades
-IFR
-EW suite upgrades

that sums it up for the upgrades on block II, as far as structural upgrades go like composites or use of RAM paint, both have been indicated of being used even on block I (by Nabil-05 and Najam bhai)

 

[fjavaid]

is it only me or anyone else also thinks that color of the jet indicates increased usage of composites???

yes i have saying the same thing ...... but every body said different alloy and bla bla bla .....

 

[ababeel22]

these all upgrades aren't good enough IMO, there should have been some major upgrades in engine, and increase in no. of hard-points also

First of all
Block II is not a STEALTH FIGHTER (J-2X series)
Secondly there are minor upgrades on block II which are

-Radar upgrades
-Some avionics upgrades
-IFR
-EW suite upgrades

that sums it up for the upgrades on block II, as far as structural upgrades go like composites or use of RAM paint, both have been indicated of being used even on block I (by Nabil-05 and Najam bhai)

 

[DARKY]

is it only me or anyone else also thinks that color of the jet indicates increased usage of composites???

That is the fuel tank Area... installed separately hence a different color... could be an aluminium alloy(different to as compared to rest of the structure).

AFA use of composites is concerned such a small area(of structure alone).. on a small aircraft like JF-17 would not make much of a difference to overall weight reduction of JF-17... or any advantage in absorption of radar waves.

 

[DARKY]

The Engines come to Pakistan directly..
The section of the fuselage is assembled in China, where it is then shipped to Pakistan for final assembly with the rest of the aircraft(manufactured locally).

Pakistan should try hard and lobby for a Klimove overhaul plant in PAC(or wherever land and other resources are available)... in due course as the number of aircraft increases the need of such a factory/plant would be felt more and more by PAF as RD-93 has a poor MTBO of just 300-400hrs... with the Chinese engine nowhere in sight in near future(even block 2 version).

Besides that it would be interesting to know weather the fuselage and the inside structure assembled as such that allows easy replacement of engines taking less time... since its a labor intense and time taking process which can affect sortie rates in case of conflict.. to overcome such disadvantage arising due to low MTBO of RD-33 Mig designers made the Mig29 as such that 4-5 men could just attach a hook and replace both the engines on Mig29 and make it flight worthy in just 4 hours... which is something unique with Mig29.

 

[araz]

Pakistan should try hard and lobby for a Klimove overhaul plant in PAC(or wherever land and other resources are available)... in due course as the number of aircraft increases the need of such a factory/plant would be felt more and more by PAF as RD-93 has a poor MTBO of just 300-400hrs... with the Chinese engine nowhere in sight in near future(even block 2 version).

Besides that it would be interesting to know weather the fuselage and the inside structure assembled as such that allows easy replacement of engines taking less time... since its a labor intense and time taking process which can affect sortie rates in case of conflict.. to overcome such disadvantage arising due to low MTBO of RD-33 Mig designers made the Mig29 as such that 4-5 men could just attach a hook and replace both the engines on Mig29 and make it flight worthy in just 4 hours... which is something unique with Mig29.

The problem is in the trust deficit between pakistan and Russia. there are plenty of suggestions that we would like to go on to incorporate WS13 /WS15 when it becomes available. I think it would be in Russia's interest rather than Pakistan's to propose such a step. Obviously the advantages dfor Russia are immense and continued custom of PAF would basically hamper the WS13 project of China. By the way I was under the impression that the MTBO of the RD93 series was certainly better than the RD33 series which the 29s have. Would love to hear your response.
Araz