China To Induct JF-17 Thunder into Its Air Force: President Mamnoon Hussain

[syedali73]

I love you too baby
read Oscars post above

Very sad Irfan. Did I ever use this kind of language that you have used? It was not expected from you. You did not answer my questions but I have got the answer from the language you have used. Have a nice day.

 

[Developereo]

Ibut wise man doesnt realise that the current production capacity doesnt allow the Chinese to fill their fleet with their newer jets at a pace that can offer a face saving possibility in any near conflict.

China is following a pragmatic course given the constraints (arms embargo) under which it must operate.

China has the money to buy advanced Russian technology in quantity (to the extent that Russia would oblige), but it needs to balance it out against developing indigenous capability. Whatever Russia can[t (or won't) supply must be provided locally, and it's better to develop capability preemptively rather than waiting for the day when it becomes a requirement.

 

[VCheng]

Six pages of posts, and still no confirmation on whether the claim "China To Induct JF-17 Thunder into Its Air Force" is verifiably true or not.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The problem is that China is spread too thin. If it had 400 to 500 su 30' s or j 11' s and another 400 to 500 J10's, things would be very interesting.

China can hardly deploy one third of its frontline aircraft, the rest will be covering its flanks. For the Taiwanese they know that they would only have a small window of opportunity to inflict as much damage on the Chinese aircraft before it's airfields are targeted by the ground strike missiles.

Truthfully--- China is in a woeful position. With India on one side, Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam. China is not the monster that people claim it to be.

The trick that the Chinese played on the Russians by not fulfilling the order of the aircraft has backfired for China. Power play and power positioning did not wait for China to achieve its military acquisitions. Countries like Philippines and Vietnam are not afraid to back down from China at this time. It is only the u s holding them back, because they don't want another conflict at this time.

Irfan,

The comment about the blk 52 f 16 was just meant to show that even Pakistani frontline is more advanced than anything that China has and all this hype that China has created, they are still woefully equipped.

 

[SQ8]

Six pages of posts, and still no confirmation on whether the claim "China To Induct JF-17 Thunder into Its Air Force" is verifiably true or not.

Based on a single sentenace.. I see no need to debate the veracity of the statement as it has no impact on proof on intent or not. The suitability of the JF-17 to China has already been debated and that is where it should stay.

Hi,

The problem is that China is spread too thin. If it had 400 to 500 su 30' s or j 11' s and another 400 to 500 J10's, things would be very interesting.

China can hardly deploy one third of its frontline aircraft, the rest will be covering its flanks. For the Taiwanese they know that they would only have a small window of opportunity to inflict as much damage on the Chinese aircraft before it's airfields are targeted by the ground strike missiles.

Truthfully--- China is in a woeful position. With India on one side, Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam. China is not the monster that people claim it to be.

The trick that the Chinese played on the Russians by not fulfilling the order of the aircraft has backfired for China. Power play and power positioning did not wait for China to achieve its military acquisitions. Countries like Philippines and Vietnam are not afraid to back down from China at this time. It is only the u s holding them back, because they don't want another conflict at this time.

Irfan,

The comment about the blk 52 f 16 was just meant to show that even Pakistani frontline is more advanced than anything that China has and all this hype that China has created, they are still woefully equipped.

That is obvious. However, conflict with China is not just confined to weapons and uniforms. Its already ongoing on the economic and electronic fronts. Through propaganda and otherwise... there is a concerted effort to push China into a corner by playing it out to be a monster.

 

[MastanKhan]

I am amused by these proclamations that the Chinese are stupid to try and develop their own industry instead of relying on superior imports. It reflects, sadly enough, the Pakistani mindset all too well.

The Chinese may have technology which is currently inferior, and it may remain inferior for a long time compared to countries which have over a century of head start, but there is no alternative to self-reliance.

To quote a wise man, those who don't make a fool of themselves occasionally, never make anything.

Hi,

The discussion over he has nothing to do with what China wants to develop in weapons systems. The discussion is that it does not have the capability to see either of its adversaries.

No one is questioning its ability to develop its weapons. Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam and Philippines would not be waiting till China is weapons ready to make their move if they want to.

That is obvious. However, conflict with China is not just confined to weapons and uniforms. Its already ongoing on the economic and electronic fronts. Through propaganda and otherwise... there is a concerted effort to push China into a corner by playing it out to be a monster.

Hi,

What you stated is the bottom line and that is why I am saying that once cornered, China is not equipped to confront its adversaries.

 

[SQ8]

Hi,

What you stated is the bottom line and that is why I am saying that once cornered, China is not equipped to confront its adversaries.

It is not at all equipped to take on any combined effort in a symmetrical war. However, asymmetric warfare is an area where China may have a fleeting chance.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Very sad Irfan. Did I ever use this kind of language that you have used? It was not expected from you. You did not answer my questions but I have got the answer from the language you have used. Have a nice day.

it was meant in light jest intention was not to offend but accept my apologies for causing the offence
in your comparison you missed out the Serbian Mig-29s that were splashed by Hornets. for our amusement and convenience Americans have not fought every single possible fighter jet of the potential and possible adversary but their flight record is much more than flight displays no matter how pathetic and shabby their opposition has been.

if you want, I can prove that Chinese air assault will loose its steam after 24 hours. if you promise not to bring the comparison of bananas to apples then I can continue.

get a hint here about the news of China inducting JF-17s, no matter how much cups of salt you need next to you but its saying something a behemoth challenge PLAAF faces to put the "wise" words of communist party leadership into action.

I promise that I will give satisfactory answer but lets agree on a scenario or let me set one up.

are you game?

 

[Developereo]

Hi,

The discussion over he has nothing to do with what China wants to develop in weapons systems. The discussion is that it does not have the capability to see either of its adversaries.

No one is questioning its ability to develop its weapons. Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam and Philippines would not be waiting till China is weapons ready to make their move if they want to.

The discussion is entirely about whether China's decision to focus on indigenization is a mistake and it should put its money on superior imports instead.

Like I wrote above, China is following a pragmatic middle path between imports and indigenization.

Like any serious contender for a global power, China cannot possibly let itself be dependent on others for key technologies. Even India has started thinking along those lines. What happens if Russia can't, or won't supply key tech fast enough in a crunch?

China may be weak today, but the only sustainable way is to work on self-reliance, one day at a time.

As for regional conflicts, China has to play the diplomatic game of saying "nice doggie" until it can find a big enough stick. None of the regional countries are about to get into a fighting match with China unless China starts it.

 

[MastanKhan]

The discussion is entirely about whether China's decision to focus on indigenization is a mistake and it should put its money on superior imports instead.

Like I wrote above, China is following a pragmatic middle path between imports and indigenization.

Like any serious contender for a global power, China cannot possibly let itself be dependent on others for key technologies. Even India has started thinking along those lines. What happens if Russia can't, or won't supply key tech fast enough in a crunch?

China may be weak today, but the only sustainable way is to work on self-reliance, one day at a time.

As for regional conflicts, China has to play the diplomatic game of saying "nice doggie" until it can find a big enough stick. None of the regional countries are about to get into a fighting match with China unless China starts it.

Hi,

After the tianamen square fiasco, China has no pragmatic path but the only path left for it. The problem with the spratleys has left China in a lurch. It literally cannot force itself even on minnows like Vietnam and Philippines.

Again, China is a great example----you cannot fight your today's war with weapons that you are going to get in a decade from now.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The discussion is entirely about whether China's decision to focus on indigenization is a mistake and it should put its money on superior imports instead.

Like I wrote above, China is following a pragmatic middle path between imports and indigenization.

I will let Mastan speak for himself but as far as I am concerned I dont find any fault in Chinese indigenous programs in developing technologies that are prohibitive difficult and complex to master.
as far as I am concerned I dont see that current setup is ready to full fill Chinese military demands.

if the status quo persists and there are no new open hostilities then China will catch up eventually and will upgrade its air force with its newer jets and then their upgrades that are comparable to the current technology but its not there yet and its blatant copying of Russian designs scared away the Russians from offering any future cooperation in terms of TOT or mere end user sale.

Again, China is a great example----you cannot fight your today's war with weapons that you are going to get in a decade from now.

I hope I fully understood what you said and other people also understood too

a usual line used by the "grieved party" in the playground face offs used to be

"when I will grow up I will beat you up, or when my brother comes I will tell him and he will come and beat you"
the antagonist used to slap or kick even harder saying "yea we will see about that"

 

[MastanKhan]

Thanks Irfan,

There is absolutely no fault in Chinese weapons program except that they screwed Russia pretty good. Out of cleverness, the Chinese thought that they could copy Russian technology easy----guess what---it ain,t that easy.

That was a tremendous setback. And what is happening in spratleys, the Chinese wish that they had treated the Russians better and stuck with their deal for awhile.

 

[trident2010]

Hi,

Interesting discussion going on here. If I get the drift of it then it means Chinese technology is not at par with the west or Russians. Then don't you think that Pakistan's reliance mainly on Chinese weapons in the future will bring them down qualitatively from higher western standards to lower Chinese standards?

Sorry in advance if it seems off topic. In that case no need to reply. Thanks

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Hi,

Interesting discussion going on here. If I get the drift of it then it means Chinese technology is not at par with the west or Russians. Then don't you think that Pakistan's reliance mainly on Chinese weapons in the future will bring them down qualitatively from higher western standards to lower Chinese standards?

Sorry in advance if it seems off topic. In that case no need to reply. Thanks

If I get the drift of it then it means Chinese technology is not at par with the west or Russians.

TRUE, thats where China is at the moment. its a long hard road.

Then don't you think that Pakistan's reliance mainly on Chinese weapons in the future will bring them down qualitatively from higher western standards to lower Chinese standards

logically yes , if the answer to first question is yes.
hence we got the Mix of American and European aircrafts and systems
and even our Chinese aircrafts have a mix of Western avionics input in them to compensate for that technology/ standard drawback.

a line from old man and the sea is..."dont whine over what you dont have and what you could have done IF you had what you wanted but make do with what you have at the moment."

what does the above quote mean here? any Airforce like China or Pakistan has to compliment its indigenous industry and programs with the producers that have years of experience of producing benchmark products that are industry standard.

Indian Tejas is just such example although India already has a healthy mix of Russian and Western advanced systems.

 

[ziaulislam]

even so the share size of china potential military weapons market is enough to bring in any form of russian equipment, if china so desire it.
thats why we hear news about Russia selling every type of weapons to china and then seeing china denying it in favour of indigenous or copied design.
china is strong enough to with stand war from its immediate one of its neighbours which will never happen as it seems. in next 10-15 years it might surpass russian technology due to amount of R&D they are doing