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JF-17/FC-1 Thunder Fighter

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Couple of tests in Pakistan does not mean that this LACM has not been tested elsewhere (China is a key partner and they have had a long, sustained CM program for a while so I would not assume that the first of the two tests were the maiden test flights of the LACM). The most recent article from an open source has been this KDR article that does talk about the Tercom and other aspects of the Babur LACM.



The above is from a series of articles that KDR has printed after interviewing many Pakistani officials including the chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff recently. So make what you will of it.

Hence we rule out GPS as the source of guidance,atleast according to this article. However mate unfortunately I am forced not to believe that Tercom is present until there is concrete news about China/Pakistan obtaining mapping capabilities.

The guidance system represents the most significant challenge for a long-range cruise missile program. China would require an extensive database of accurate topographic information to use terrain comparison (TERCOM) guidance
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/aircraft/lacm.htm
 
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Hence we rule out GPS as the source of guidance,atleast according to this article. However mate unfortunately I am forced not to believe that Tercom is present until there is concrete news about China/Pakistan obtaining mapping capabilities.


http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/aircraft/lacm.htm

Hmm so not sure what would limit China from obtaining or providing Pakistan with high resolution mapping capabilities? Wrt Tercom, higher resolution digital mapping is available commercially. In the future, Erieye will also provide terrain mapping capability to the PAF.

In any case, sorry if you are not convinced (posting Links from Fas.org (which almost always has second hand and dated info) does not cause any doubt in my mind that this capability is within the grasp of Pakistani and Chinese engineers working on it). In any case, I will let NESCOM worry about it. Lets move on now. :coffee:
 
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Hmm so not sure what would limit China from obtaining or providing Pakistan with high resolution mapping capabilities? Wrt Tercom, higher resolution digital mapping is available commercially. In the future, Erieye will also provide terrain mapping capability to the PAF.

In any case, sorry if you are not convinced (posting Links from Fas.org (which almost always has second hand and dated info) does not cause any doubt in my mind that this capability is within the grasp of Pakistani and Chinese engineers working on it). In any case, I will let NESCOM worry about it. Lets move on now. :coffee:

That link was meant to just indicate the effort needed for tercom implementation.
However the satellite images that are publicly available would be not be good enough for such a system. I am not sure image processing of the ground is possible for missile traveling at such a speed. Hence as far as I know they use difference in smoothness of surface to recognize/map it. The missile wont be seeing what we see for example on google earth.

Target recognition is different.Here image recognition might be used since the number of objects to recog. is far less.
 
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That link was meant to just indicate the effort needed for tercom implementation.
However the satellite images that are publicly available would be not be good enough for such a system. I am not sure image processing of the ground is possible for missile traveling at such a speed. Hence as far as I know they use difference in smoothness of surface to recognize/map it. The missile wont be seeing what we see for example on google earth.

Target recognition is different.Here image recognition might be used since the number of objects to recog. is far less.

Ok, again you have two different systems that you are thinking of....

TERCOM - Terrain Contour Matching. An in-flight altimeter meaures the height from the TLAM to the ground and the missile will check to see if it is in the right spot from the height. It will make corrections if it does match the prestored height

Ergo it is fairly easy to calculate terrain contours from even basic imagery

DSMAC - Digital Scene Matching Area Correlation. A small image is taken of the flight path and downloaded into the TLAM before it is launched. During the flight the missile will verify that the images that it has stored correlates with the image it sees below itself. If the pictures do not match it will correct itself and then finish its mission.

This would be a little harder to achieve but again not that difficult
 
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That link was meant to just indicate the effort needed for tercom implementation.
However the satellite images that are publicly available would be not be good enough for such a system. I am not sure image processing of the ground is possible for missile traveling at such a speed. Hence as far as I know they use difference in smoothness of surface to recognize/map it. The missile wont be seeing what we see for example on google earth.

Target recognition is different.Here image recognition might be used since the number of objects to recog. is far less.

I am not talking about target acquisition. I am referring to TERCOM needed for flight path adjustment etc. Why did you assume that I was talking about digital terrain mapping as with Google earth type source? There are commercial terrain mapping companies like Airborne etc. that do this as a commercial enterprise. All I am saying is that there are very many ways of getting assistance with terrain mapping but why Pakistan would go beyond China would be a question in itself.
 
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Wow, great pics webby!
I'll use the second one as my future avatar in other fora. :agree:
 
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34a3c436d3bcf3f5770aea1c11897682.jpg
 
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I still like it in grey color, I will get the photos of the JF-17 number 102. and post them .
 
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Saturday, March 31, 2007

‘Pakistan to start JF-17 production from next year’

KAMRA: The serial production of JF-17 Thunder Aircraft will start from next year, said Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Chief Tanveer Mahmood Ahmad on Friday.

Briefing reporters at the Kamra Aeronautical Complex about the jet and its production plans, he said that in the first phase, 15 of the jets would be jointly produced with Chinese assistance and then PAF would raise 10 to 12 squadrons of 200 to 250 of the jets by 2015 if adequate funding was available.

The reporters were also briefed about the manufacturing process and features of the jet as well, which is powered by a Russian engine and has excellent all-weather operational capabilities.

The jet can be used with equal effectiveness for maritime (naval) services and can be armed with nuclear and other non-conventional weapons He said that Pakistan would be able to export some variants of the fighter if talks in this regard succeeded. “Talks are also underway with China for purchasing more advanced J-10 jet fighters as well,” he said. He said that the US had delivered 12 refurbished F-16 jets, while 18 new F-16 would be purchased in the first and second quarter of 2010. To a question, he said that Indian MIG–29s were not a “serious concern” to the PAF, since “our warplanes are equal to them in all respects”.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\03\31\story_31-3-2007_pg7_12
 
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Don't forget the 2 pilots of this new plane, I will get the names soon (you can check out their patch).

98376b55e6df3e0a4715ac68f28904ed.jpg
 
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Chinese fighters for Pakistan: India stealing the Thunder?

Islamabad, March 30 (IANS) The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) wants to hike its demand for the Chinese fighter jet JF-17 Thunder (FC-1). But it says that India is lobbying against it.

With two JF-17s having arrived earlier this month, PAF says the deal is on. Its chief, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood, says his government is ready to revise the order from the earlier 150 to 200 to 250, The News said.

But the aircraft has Russian engine and the Russians have blocked China from re-exporting the aircraft to Pakistan.

"We haven't contracted the Russians on this [the engine], so the deal is between Russia and China. We have no issues related to this, although there have been efforts to impede progress by creating some road blocks in this particular path," the Pakistani air chief told Jane's Defence Weekly in an interview.

According to Jane's, the Pakistani Air chief's reference to "efforts to impede progress" relates to strong lobbying efforts by the Indian government. Jane's quotes Indian sources to say that Russian President Vladimir Putin subsequently "assured" New Delhi during his January visit to India that Russian engines would not power the PAF fighters.

But the publication goes on to say that Pakistani sources claim they have a clear understanding from Chinese authorities that there will be no Russian effort to block the supply of the RD-93 engines to Pakistan.

"The Chinese have told us the Russians haven't issued a written licence but the Russians will not block the supply of the RD-93 to Pakistan," an unnamed senior Pakistani government official told Jane's.

Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed also told Jane's that Pakistan should take delivery of another six or seven JF-17 aircraft before 2008, which would be used for testing. "These are all weapons that are on our inventory and we have lots of weapons," he added, referring to the test programme's weapon integration phase.

The Pakistani Air Chief expects the first JF-17s to be inducted in a PAF squadron by the end of 2008, with serial production to start at the rate of up to 20 annually.

However, the programme's planned enlargement could see an expansion of production facilities at the Pakistan Aeronautical complex in Kamra or some off-the-shelf acquisitions from China, Jane's quotes the Pakistani air chief.

The PAF's first two JF-17s were displayed publicly on 23 March following their arrival earlier in the month.

The Pakistani Air chief also revealed in the interview to Jane's that China has offered Pakistan an airborne warning and control system aircraft. "We have tested and evaluated, finding it fairly good but there are areas where we definitely want improvements, both in the platform and in the radar," he said, adding that all these objectives should be achievable.

Indian Muslims.
http://www.indianmuslims.info/news/..._for_pakistan_india_stealing_the_thunder.html
 
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Pakistan joins fighter makers exclusive club

ABDUL AHAD
KAMRA - With the induction of two JF-17 Thunder aircraft into Pakistan Air Force, Pakistan has joined the exclusive club of few countries that are manufacturing fighter aircraft.
This Joint Venture with China has not only reinforced Pakistan Air Force’s capability to defend country’s airspace but would also thwart any aggressive designs against Pakistan, if any.
Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed stated this while briefing local and international media about the latest induction of supersonic JF-17 Prototype-6 aircraft into PAF here on Friday. He was replying to a questioner that if Iran were attacked what would be the response of Pakistan.
The JF-17 fighter jet has jointly been designed and developed by the engineers, pilots and technical staff of China and Pakistan.
He said Pakistan has already received two JF-17 aircraft, which made their debut at national day parade on 23rd of this month.
The air chief said with the sanctions repeatedly imposed on Pakistan, Islamabad was able to look for alternative sources of air power. It went for a joint venture of the aircraft with Chinese company CATIC and signed an MOU in this respect.
He said today, JF-17 is state-of-the-art weapon system. Light weight, all weather, day/night multi-role aircraft, JF-17 has potent combat capabilities both for defensive and offensive notes.
Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood told a questioner that Pakistan would get six more fighter jets during the current year and would get 15 to 20 more aircraft next year. He said Pakistan would start serial production of the JF-17 Thunder aircraft from next year and would be able to replace all old aircraft by 2015.
He said the 4th Generation JF-17 Thunder aircraft could be upgraded into the 5th Generation jet and for that reason tests and evaluation is continuing. It could be made an alternative for the F-16 aircraft, he added.
He said talks for 18 new F-16s are going on with the US and hopefully Pakistan would get them by 2010. He said talks on 24 pre-used F-16 planes are also going on and within 12 to 18 months they would be delivered to Pakistan.
When asked about the US commitment on F-16s, he said US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates gave assurance to Pakistan that it won’t commit the mistake of leaving Pakistan again. The air chief, however, stated that if that would be the case PAF is looking for alternative countries including China and others.
When asked whether JF-17 aircraft would carry nuclear warheads, he replied that JF-17 is a very capable and potent platform.

It has all the capabilities of the 4th generation aircraft and can be upgraded into the 5th generation fighter.He said Pakistan is also looking forward to get two squadrons of J10 fighters from China, which have bigger platform, better radar system and carry more weapons.

On the question of export of JF-17 Thunder to other countries, the air chief said the fighter plane is a joint venture of Pakistan and China and after getting certification it can be exported to other countries at a very low cost.
On the issue of Russian engine of the aircraft, the air chief said the matter is between China and Russia and Pakistan has been assured that there would not be any impediment to the project.
He replied to a question that PAF has the capability to counter Indian planes, which have the capability to drop bombs from the range up to 25-30 kilometers above the ground.
He also hinted at starting mid life update programme for F-16s in Pakistan but said it would take some time.
The JF-17 design features include High maneuverability and BVR capability, effective air to ground capability, long range operational radius and endurance, excellent take-off and landing performance, weight and low cost, advance aerodynamic configurations, operational efficiency, large thrust and low SFC turbofan engine and service sealing of 16,500 metres.

The Nation.
http://nation.com.pk/daily/mar-2007/31/index6.php
 
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What is the current position of J10 is any idea when they going to join the PAF ... in how much time, is this is possiable that 4 to 6 J-10 this year joins PAF:angel:
 
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