JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Irfan Baloch]

It is a flop mainly bcz its not ITAR free. There are too many critical inputs that are sourced from US. Engine being the biggest factor. If Pakistan had attempted to procure it then i am pretty sure US would have blocked sale.

dont blame the grapes.
its our reach which is the problem
Its Pakistan's failed international relations and inept diplomacy which is the failure .. we have even managed to annoy Saudis and testing patience of chinese.

 

[MastanKhan]

Doesn't matter how good the product is, if it does not sell, it's a commercial flop.

Hi,

A commercial flop years ago---AKA the Rafale---no one wanted to touch it with a 10 foot pole--is the best seller nowadays.

 

[Abid123]

What kind of logic is this... give up after the JF17B3 and focus on old used F16s JF17B3 is far more capable than 90s era F16s.

PAF will use J10CP as a stopgap until the 5th generation program matures in Pakistan/China. This will be a combo of purchasing off the shelf from China and producing domestically at home.

Pakistan has historically kept very mum on its aquisitions/projects. We know project azm is in the work but we have yet to determine the full scope. My personal analysis is that more than likely it will be designed/conceived in Pakistan but majority of the prototype/avionic development will be with China either CAC or SAC. Pakistan has had great relations with CAC, we developed the JF17 with them, and are purchasing J10CPs from them. More than likely AZM will be similar to J20 but a little smaller in size.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_1Y50nXYAUKiLd.jpg

Very very similar to the J20

j20 - Пошук Google

www.google.com

PAF might have decided that (75-100?) J20 type heavy fighter is more than sufficient for its 5th generation needs. Remember PLAAF is already working on a loyal wingman drone concept with its J20B twin seat fighter. PAF in the long term may also go for dozens of these loyal wingman drones as force multipliers. The future is not replacing every 4th generation 1-1 with new fighters. It will be using a few dozen 5th generations jets backed by hundreds of drones and 4th generations jets as well as AWACS/Communication/EW all acting in net centric C4I warfare. I see MOST VALUE IN AZM IS WE GO WITH A 5TH GENERATION LOYAL WINGMAN TYPE CONCEPT DRONE along with the Jet itself.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1291769250772901888

You stated that you dont see the JF17 program moving beyond B3? I see it becoming a future UCAV or a technology demonstrator for us to go that route much quicker/cheaper.

Again I may be wrong but I highly doubt it. From PAFs strong relations with CAC, to the design similarities of the AZM/J20, to recent acquisition of a few dozen J10C. Lastly we know that China time and time again has exported its top notch equipment (post decade) to pakistan. J20 is late 2010s technology at this point (most of it). Just my 2 cents

How I see it:

JF-17-200
J-10C- 72
AZM- 100
Maybe 36 J-16?

 

[Pandora]

dont blame the grapes.
its our reach which is the problem
Its Pakistan's failed international relations and inept diplomacy which is the failure .. we have even managed to annoy Saudis and testing patience of chinese.

There are plenty of other grapes doesn't mean we have to eat which are sour and out of our reach. There are plenty of factors influencing our decisions regarding foreign policy. There is geo politics at play here which is forcing our decisions. As for saudis if you send your fellow pakistanis as canon fodders for them you will have perfect relation with them.

Your cover is blown! Go back to where u came from!

Pretty sure Mods have access to IP address so dont worry i wont be stealing state secrets from defence.pk

 

[Chak Bamu]

Your academic coursework is meaningless in comparison to actual practitioners who are delivering parts for the F-35. Who said QHL is using a 'simple oven'? The fact of the matter is, you are unaware of the many stages of composite manufacturing, and the roles autoclaves and ovens both play in the process. Even then, you are shamelessly touting the extremely limited knowledge you gleaned from somewhere. Stop throwing your weight about on others when you don't know what you are talking about.

And since you have just been outed as someone who argues based on limited knowledge, that makes your defence of this loud mouthed @denel even more laughable. Seriously, people like you are turning this forum into a dog house!

So, an epoxy-based composite cured in an oven is better than the one cured in an autoclave

 

[KaiserX]

How I see it:

JF-17-200
J-10C- 72
AZM- 100
Maybe 36 J-16?

Seems reasonable except I think J10s will be capped at around 50 and JF17s might land at around 230. J16s also seem very unlikely.

 

[denel]

Your academic coursework is meaningless in comparison to actual practitioners who are delivering parts for the F-35. Who said QHL is using a 'simple oven'? The fact of the matter is, you are unaware of the many stages of composite manufacturing, and the roles autoclaves and ovens both play in the process. Even then, you are shamelessly touting the extremely limited knowledge you gleaned from somewhere. Stop throwing your weight about on others when you don't know what you are talking about.

And since you have just been outed as someone who argues based on limited knowledge, that makes your defence of this loud mouthed @denel even more laughable. Seriously, people like you are turning this forum into a dog house!

This is truly uncalled for. What is the basis of your attacks.

 

[TsAr]

The PAF wasn’t completely interested in the Gripen either - they wanted a strike fighter and at the time the Gripen being pitched was seen either as equivalent to a F-16 or a A2A aircraft for which the JF-17 was already earmarked.

The swedes decided not to sell to Pakistan AFTER India’s RFP for the MMRCA program joke.

As far as the JF is concerned, there are many issues with supply that mostly arise from either inexperience, incompetence and dishonesty or a mixture of all three. But there are some local capabilities that have arisen which support in some way but the basic issue is that Pakistani human resource is still assembling the Toyota Corolla from CKD which just 1 airbag whereas the skillset required is to assemble and manufacture parts for an Audi and eventually try to manufacture a Ferrari. This isn’t just a case of lets buy a sophisticated rig to make something but a good 5-10 years worth of education and training involved.

on a lighter note Corolla now comes with 2 airbags...

 

[Abid123]

Seems reasonable except I think J10s will be capped at around 50 and JF17s might land at around 230. J16s also seem very unlikely.

J-16 is just my wish bro

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

We should try to double the production line with the help of china. Until 2021, we should have 250 jf17s, because we skipped j10s , and others in favor of project azm and jf17s for huge number.
I've feeling if we can't increase production lines of jf17s, we are in need of 50 J10s, even it's price is double than jf17. We should try to get 50 J10s as urgent need, to keep balance because we didn't get 250 jf17s until 2020.

 

[Bossman]

You are talking to someone who has advanced coursework in composites. I know what I am talking about & I need not resort to making google searches to sound knowledgeable & important.

You think you can make High performance Carbon composites with a simple oven? Sure you could take carbon fiber & epoxy and make it pass through an oven to speed up curing process, but it would be nowhere as strong or resilient as one that it cured in an autoclave.

It is just idiotic to thing Ovens = High performance composites. I would be really worried if someone was using ovens to cure panels for JF-17.

Here is a refresher course in aviation composites. See slide 14.

https://www.aerodefevent.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/AeroDef-2017-Composites-101-Workshop.pdf

The only thing I will concede to is that some use the term autoclave interchangeably with Oven but for composites the more common term is ovens.

The main difference between a typical Autoclave and OOA and VBO batch oven is how the vacuum is generated. Where in an autoclave the entire chamber is under vacuum, in a batch oven the workpiece is under vacuum since it is contained in the vacuum bag.

I am not sure about JF17 wing panels but these ovens were definitely used for Falco and now being used for subcontracting for Turkish UAV and maybe for CH4s

 

[denel]

on a lighter note Corolla now comes with 2 airbags...

now now .... you know that corolla is my car for life. My 1988 has no airbags but still going .

 

[TsAr]

now now .... you know that corolla is my car for life. My 1988 has no airbags but still going .

one of the best shapes in Cowrolla

 

[messiach]

You should all be seeing block-3 in the air soon.

M.

 

[The Eagle]

You should all be seeing block-3 in the air soon.

M.

Back to Barfani Elaka? Though, Good to hear from you.