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JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

Hi,

Gripen is not a FLOP---. It is one of the finest aircraft on the market at this time.

The problem is with Swedish govt---it fc'kd up by not selling it to PAF.


PAF would have been the best advertisement for the Gripen.

It is a flop mainly bcz its not ITAR free. There are too many critical inputs that are sourced from US. Engine being the biggest factor. If Pakistan had attempted to procure it then i am pretty sure US would have blocked sale.
 
Doesn't matter how good the product is, if it does not sell, it's a commercial flop.
Brazil ,South Africa and Czech airforces are the operators of Gripen in addition to Swedish air force with about 100s of units produced and sold.
if this is a commercial flop then you have very exaggerated crietaria for success of a jet fighter.
 
Auoclaves are not ovens. Get this straight. And yes, you are an idiot who keeps insisting on his mistakes. Stop making a fool of yourself.
Hi,

They would not do it so openly. I am pretty sure many a local turncoat mossa agents are in service.
For Americans yes but not directly with Mossad. Mossad is very deep in Arab countries and they sometimes used them to infiltrate Pakistan. They tried doing that with the nuclear program using Saudis but failed.
 
Why need to change the radar on ZDK-03?


I advise u stop spewing nonsense. Erieye were purchase to replace destroyed and damage one. F-16 of PAF are off hand from the Chinese by US. They are everyday guarded secretly by US personnel. So what can Chinese do to link these F-16?
ZDK-03 --> To bring it close to KJ-500 if not at par, replacing the radar to AESA.

Erieye --> PAF repaired one, bought one/two to replace the destroyed one(s). Then PAF picked up additional on top of that to make it 6(+), 6 was the original sought numbers but were reduced down to four ( 4) in lieu of 4 ZDK-03.
 
ZDK-03 --> To bring it close to KJ-500 if not at par, replacing the radar to AESA.

Erieye --> PAF repaired one, bought one/two to replace the destroyed one(s). Then PAF picked up additional on top of that to make it 6(+), 6 was the original sought numbers but were reduced down to four ( 4) in lieu of 4 ZDK-03.

Al Khalid
1 March 2014
In 2006, Pakistan signed a contract c Chinese China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC) to develop and supply him four aircraft ZDK-03 Karakoram Eagle in 2008. Planes are called ZDK-03 in honor of CETC (abbreviation of the Chinese name is read as Zhong Dian Ke). The number "03" indicates that this is the third set of AWACS, created by the company - the first two were KJ-2000, KJ-200.
Tests of the prototype radar system ZDK-03 was carried out on the plane Y-8AEW in China since the beginning of 2006. Rolled out the first batch of Pakistani aircraft ZDK-03, built on the basis of the transport plane Y-8F-400 (series 3) was used to Shaanxi Aircraft Company in November 2010 and in January 2011, this machine is tested intensively in the PRC with the Pakistani crew. Final transfer of the aircraft "11-001" Pakistan Air Force was carried out in November 2011. The second and third copies were received in the Air Force in December of the same year.
Delivered in 2011 in Pakistan three aircraft ZDK-03 became the first Chinese AWACS complexes aimed at export. Production of all key components of the Chinese aviation radar, including two-way radio modules (APMs) AFAR is localized in China. Processors required for high-speed data processing are also the result of their own research and development of Chinese firms.
The existence of the conventional AWACS derivative became known in 2005. The actual prototype wearing a civilian-style blue/white color scheme and the test serial 'T0518 Red' is based on the radar-nosed Y8F-400 ('Category II Platform'). Contrary to some sources, the first prototype base aircraft was not the Y8F-600 ('Category III Platform'), though this platform with six-blade engines was used for later aircraft. The aircraft has a conventional 'saucer' rotodome mounted aft of the wings on twin inward-canted pylons; the greater part of the rotodome is dielectric. The Chinese aircraft is powered by four turboprop engines and has a greater range than offered by the Saab Microwave Systems Erieye. The aircraft nose was shorter and improved from usual glass-fared nose, like the Y-8F400 or Y-8-X, however the engine are not changed. A canoe shaped dome like E-8's array-phased antenna is located between the front and rear landing gears. The platform is characterized by the triple tail configuration (one large and two small), which was added for flight stability after the installation of new radar antenna.
The ZDK-03 system is an advanced Airborne Warning and Control System with sophisticated integrated sensors and communications suite. Pakistan Air Force had signed a contract in 2008 with CETC of China for the joint development of 04 ZDK-03 AWACS aircraft configured to Pakistan Air Force specifications. ZDK-03 began its life in early 2000s as Project 021. It’s one of many AWACS development programs China undertook after the PHACLON deal with Israel had to be dropped under US pressure. Unlike the KJ-2000 project which depends on the development of a new Chinese AESA radar, Project 021 took the safer route, aimed at perfecting mature technology existing in China. It was designed to satisfy PLA’s combat needs in any contingency over Taiwan. After the success of KJ-2000, Project 021 saw continued development as a potential export model. Although employing older technologies it is a full-fledged AWACS rather than AEWs Western countries are exporting. The 021 prototype was checked out by PAF but ZDK-03, the version sold to Pakistan, is an extensive redevelopment of the original Project 021 with newer designs and technologies. ZDK-03 AEW&C Karakoram Eagle has single active
electronically steered array radar from the Chinese KJ-2000 which is mounted on a turboprop-powered Y-8F600 in a rotating rotodome. Chinese KJ-2000 AWACS based on the IL-76 carries AESA Radar within its fixed rotodome in a triangular arrangement to provide a 360 degree coverage, on the other hand ZDK03 AEW&C Karakoram Eagle have a conventional rotating rotodome very much like that of E-3 and E-2C/D to
provide a 360 degree coverage. It uses both mechanical scanning (for horizontal) and electronic scanning (for vertical). Its Communication System is also custom built for PAF. In order to make sure ZDK-03 communicate with both Western and Chinese planes in PAF, the communication systems on ZDK-03 uses a number of off the shelf
News Archives NEWS ARCHIVES Western components integrated by Chinese engineers with Chinese front ends and software. A comprehensive ECM has also been designed for the ZDK-203 to add
versatility and teeth to PAF’s Air Defense System. Its Command and Control system is also state-of-the-art and highly sophisticated. The platform uses WJ6C turboprop engines and JL-4 composite propellers, which has better endurance and operates at higher altitude than the Swedish SAAB 2000 AEW platform acquired earlier by PAF. PAF plans to integrate both the Karakoram Eagle and the SAAB 2000 Erieye
with its front line fighters F-16 and JF-17 Thunder to develop a potent air
defense system which can also deliver a knockout punch to any adversary.
The induction of the ZDK-203 into PAF is another milestone in the exemplary history of cooperation between Pakistan and China. It was because of the high performance and low cost of this AEW&C system that prompted PAF to reduce its order for the Saab-2000 AEW&C Erieye from 6 to 4 systems. Pakistan’s reliance on its all weather friend China has been proved once again by the provision of the Karakoram Eagle. For years, Chinese defense industry suffered from the embargo by the western countries for releasing technology to China. It was forced to rely on the Soviet Union, whose defence industry was lagging behind the
west. Even when China’s economy was booming and it was able to afford western technology; it was denied access to the same under one pretext or the other. This in a way was a boon since Chinese engineers, started with reverse engineering and soon mastered the art of indigenization. Pakistan has greatly benefited from the Chinese principles of self reliance and a number of its joint ventures with China, like the Main Battle Tanks, Destroyers, trainers and fighter aircraft resulted from the same spirit of sharing and transfer of technology. Airborne Early Warning Systems were one area, where China endeavored to build on acquisition from the west and take advantage of its advanced prowess in the field. It planned to purchase the Israeli Phalcon Radar and mount it on the Russian IL-76.
However, Israel was deterred by the US although India, which pitches itself as a rival of China in the region, was granted permission by the US to acquire the same.


759759
 
Al Khalid
1 March 2014
In 2006, Pakistan signed a contract c Chinese China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC) to develop and supply him four aircraft ZDK-03 Karakoram Eagle in 2008. Planes are called ZDK-03 in honor of CETC (abbreviation of the Chinese name is read as Zhong Dian Ke). The number "03" indicates that this is the third set of AWACS, created by the company - the first two were KJ-2000, KJ-200.
Tests of the prototype radar system ZDK-03 was carried out on the plane Y-8AEW in China since the beginning of 2006. Rolled out the first batch of Pakistani aircraft ZDK-03, built on the basis of the transport plane Y-8F-400 (series 3) was used to Shaanxi Aircraft Company in November 2010 and in January 2011, this machine is tested intensively in the PRC with the Pakistani crew. Final transfer of the aircraft "11-001" Pakistan Air Force was carried out in November 2011. The second and third copies were received in the Air Force in December of the same year.
Delivered in 2011 in Pakistan three aircraft ZDK-03 became the first Chinese AWACS complexes aimed at export. Production of all key components of the Chinese aviation radar, including two-way radio modules (APMs) AFAR is localized in China. Processors required for high-speed data processing are also the result of their own research and development of Chinese firms.
The existence of the conventional AWACS derivative became known in 2005. The actual prototype wearing a civilian-style blue/white color scheme and the test serial 'T0518 Red' is based on the radar-nosed Y8F-400 ('Category II Platform'). Contrary to some sources, the first prototype base aircraft was not the Y8F-600 ('Category III Platform'), though this platform with six-blade engines was used for later aircraft. The aircraft has a conventional 'saucer' rotodome mounted aft of the wings on twin inward-canted pylons; the greater part of the rotodome is dielectric. The Chinese aircraft is powered by four turboprop engines and has a greater range than offered by the Saab Microwave Systems Erieye. The aircraft nose was shorter and improved from usual glass-fared nose, like the Y-8F400 or Y-8-X, however the engine are not changed. A canoe shaped dome like E-8's array-phased antenna is located between the front and rear landing gears. The platform is characterized by the triple tail configuration (one large and two small), which was added for flight stability after the installation of new radar antenna.
The ZDK-03 system is an advanced Airborne Warning and Control System with sophisticated integrated sensors and communications suite. Pakistan Air Force had signed a contract in 2008 with CETC of China for the joint development of 04 ZDK-03 AWACS aircraft configured to Pakistan Air Force specifications. ZDK-03 began its life in early 2000s as Project 021. It’s one of many AWACS development programs China undertook after the PHACLON deal with Israel had to be dropped under US pressure. Unlike the KJ-2000 project which depends on the development of a new Chinese AESA radar, Project 021 took the safer route, aimed at perfecting mature technology existing in China. It was designed to satisfy PLA’s combat needs in any contingency over Taiwan. After the success of KJ-2000, Project 021 saw continued development as a potential export model. Although employing older technologies it is a full-fledged AWACS rather than AEWs Western countries are exporting. The 021 prototype was checked out by PAF but ZDK-03, the version sold to Pakistan, is an extensive redevelopment of the original Project 021 with newer designs and technologies. ZDK-03 AEW&C Karakoram Eagle has single active
electronically steered array radar from the Chinese KJ-2000 which is mounted on a turboprop-powered Y-8F600 in a rotating rotodome. Chinese KJ-2000 AWACS based on the IL-76 carries AESA Radar within its fixed rotodome in a triangular arrangement to provide a 360 degree coverage, on the other hand ZDK03 AEW&C Karakoram Eagle have a conventional rotating rotodome very much like that of E-3 and E-2C/D to
provide a 360 degree coverage. It uses both mechanical scanning (for horizontal) and electronic scanning (for vertical). Its Communication System is also custom built for PAF. In order to make sure ZDK-03 communicate with both Western and Chinese planes in PAF, the communication systems on ZDK-03 uses a number of off the shelf
News Archives NEWS ARCHIVES Western components integrated by Chinese engineers with Chinese front ends and software. A comprehensive ECM has also been designed for the ZDK-203 to add
versatility and teeth to PAF’s Air Defense System. Its Command and Control system is also state-of-the-art and highly sophisticated. The platform uses WJ6C turboprop engines and JL-4 composite propellers, which has better endurance and operates at higher altitude than the Swedish SAAB 2000 AEW platform acquired earlier by PAF. PAF plans to integrate both the Karakoram Eagle and the SAAB 2000 Erieye
with its front line fighters F-16 and JF-17 Thunder to develop a potent air
defense system which can also deliver a knockout punch to any adversary.
The induction of the ZDK-203 into PAF is another milestone in the exemplary history of cooperation between Pakistan and China. It was because of the high performance and low cost of this AEW&C system that prompted PAF to reduce its order for the Saab-2000 AEW&C Erieye from 6 to 4 systems. Pakistan’s reliance on its all weather friend China has been proved once again by the provision of the Karakoram Eagle. For years, Chinese defense industry suffered from the embargo by the western countries for releasing technology to China. It was forced to rely on the Soviet Union, whose defence industry was lagging behind the
west. Even when China’s economy was booming and it was able to afford western technology; it was denied access to the same under one pretext or the other. This in a way was a boon since Chinese engineers, started with reverse engineering and soon mastered the art of indigenization. Pakistan has greatly benefited from the Chinese principles of self reliance and a number of its joint ventures with China, like the Main Battle Tanks, Destroyers, trainers and fighter aircraft resulted from the same spirit of sharing and transfer of technology. Airborne Early Warning Systems were one area, where China endeavored to build on acquisition from the west and take advantage of its advanced prowess in the field. It planned to purchase the Israeli Phalcon Radar and mount it on the Russian IL-76.
However, Israel was deterred by the US although India, which pitches itself as a rival of China in the region, was granted permission by the US to acquire the same.


759759
Nice information, you can put it in the awacs thread.

Here https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistans-airborne-early-warning-and-control-aircrafts.1284/
 
Brother,

He is a Pakistan hater, who has been exposed many times.
He is not here to learn, but to collect intel, spread dis-info and dishearten people.
Let him lead the blind, you ignore, and carry on your good work.

On the other hand, can I humbly request you to take it easy with @Chak Bamu ? You two fine gentlemen, seem to have gotten of on a wrong foot. A reset/ de-escalation could sort things out, for both. After all, we all are on the same team.

Good day to you Sir!

I think you need to get your head examined for what you are writing. May be you can visit me, I will be happy to share some good dose of god's medicine to get back to reality.

On the contrary, my presence on this forum is to enlighten and share where possible as allowed so that people and those aspiring can ask the respective questions and not drink from the coolaid.

Your attack on me being a Pak hater - that is seriously uncalled for. My love and respect for muslim is never diminished....... (Mod edit: Not needed)

My views on where Pak defence capabilities can go to and evolve are well known and where Pak leadership squandered and continues to squander is baffling; this is where not only I but others who are well respected have called it out @Bilal Khan (Quwa) .

I just have to point you to the lamenting of your PAF leadership in an open speech where they have been complaining they dont have local sourcing of screws for JF-17. If that is not opening eyes, what else can be said. We cannot even go further when the basics are not there.
middle fuselage is made in China then shipped to Pakistan as per workshare agreement
Thank you friend.

What will be great to see a complete breakdown on what is imported and what is sourced locally.

There needs to be a roadmap to secure all components locally phase by phase. This is what i was earlier trying to highlight but some folks took offense to it.
Hi,

Gripen is not a FLOP---. It is one of the finest aircraft on the market at this time.

The problem is with Swedish govt---it fc'kd up by not selling it to PAF.

PAF would have been the best advertisement for the Gripen.

Correct bro Khan. They need to learn from master of salesman you are... I mean it.

The swedes fell on their sword when dealing with the indians who promised them paradise as per sales and then left them in the cold fjords they rightfully deserve. Saab never capitalised on long term prespectives; even with Finland, they squandered the opportunity with undercutting from LHM.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
For the benefit of everyone it is important to know the context. In the past PAF had hired South African engineers on certain systems including H2 and H4. Denel had aspired to be one of those engineers, however despite his efforts his offer was rejected. The reason for rejection was that he was considered a security risk because of his close links with Israel. PAF concluded that Mossad was trying to plant an agent In AERO.

Seriously young man....

Do you even know what you are writing?

I dont need to be there in person; my IP work is already in the H4/H2 that withstood the IAF barrage not to mention the radios on the M3/M5. This is from 30yrs back!. Very proud to say it continues to excel and happy to have contributed to PAF's success.
 
I think you need to get your head examined for what you are writing. May be you can visit me, I will be happy to share some good dose of god's medicine to get back to reality.

On the contrary, my presence on this forum is to enlighten and share where possible as allowed so that people and those aspiring can ask the respective questions and not drink from the coolaid.

Your attack on me being a Pak hater - that is seriously uncalled for. My love and respect for muslim is never diminished; young man, you are allowing the hate of the china bot brigade get the best of you with respect to myself.

My views on where Pak defence capabilities can go to and evolve are well known and where Pak leadership squandered and continues to squander is baffling; this is where not only I but others who are well respected have called it out @Bilal Khan (Quwa) .

I just have to point you to the lamenting of your PAF leadership in an open speech where they have been complaining they dont have local sourcing of screws for JF-17. If that is not opening eyes, what else can be said. We cannot even go further when the basics are not there.

Thank you friend.

What will be great to see a complete breakdown on what is imported and what is sourced locally.

There needs to be a roadmap to secure all components locally phase by phase. This is what i was earlier trying to highlight but some folks took offense to it.


Correct bro Khan. They need to learn from master of salesman you are... I mean it.

The swedes fell on their sword when dealing with the indians who promised them paradise as per sales and then left them in the cold fjords they rightfully deserve. Saab never capitalised on long term prespectives; even with Finland, they squandered the opportunity with undercutting from LHM.
The PAF wasn’t completely interested in the Gripen either - they wanted a strike fighter and at the time the Gripen being pitched was seen either as equivalent to a F-16 or a A2A aircraft for which the JF-17 was already earmarked.

The swedes decided not to sell to Pakistan AFTER India’s RFP for the MMRCA program joke.

As far as the JF is concerned, there are many issues with supply that mostly arise from either inexperience, incompetence and dishonesty or a mixture of all three. But there are some local capabilities that have arisen which support in some way but the basic issue is that Pakistani human resource is still assembling the Toyota Corolla from CKD which just 1 airbag whereas the skillset required is to assemble and manufacture parts for an Audi and eventually try to manufacture a Ferrari. This isn’t just a case of lets buy a sophisticated rig to make something but a good 5-10 years worth of education and training involved.
 

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