JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[HRK]

What will be great to see a complete breakdown on what is imported and what is sourced locally.

I and many others posted it on this forum in past with pictures and articles so would not repeat it but would only summarize that PAC receive Middle Fuselage and Engine Bay from china all other parts of the fuselage like wings, tails, cockpit and front fuselage is made in PAC and all metal sheet work is done in Pakistan.

Same is the case in avionics and larger percentage is manufactured in PAC facility including KLJ-7 Radar, Ruby configuration of Myanmar air force is bit different then PAF standard JF-17 configuration, as per some reports it use some different radar than KLJ-7 so China had greater share in the manufacturing of avionics of Ruby configuration as compared to standard configuration.

 

[denel]

The PAF wasn’t completely interested in the Gripen either - they wanted a strike fighter and at the time the Gripen being pitched was seen either as equivalent to a F-16 or a A2A aircraft for which the JF-17 was already earmarked.

The swedes decided not to sell to Pakistan AFTER India’s RFP for the MMRCA program joke.

As far as the JF is concerned, there are many issues with supply that mostly arise from either inexperience, incompetence and dishonesty or a mixture of all three. But there are some local capabilities that have arisen which support in some way but the basic issue is that Pakistani human resource is still assembling the Toyota Corolla from CKD which just 1 airbag whereas the skillset required is to assemble and manufacture parts for an Audi and eventually try to manufacture a Ferrari. This isn’t just a case of lets buy a sophisticated rig to make something but a good 5-10 years worth of education and training involved.

200% on the mark. It starts with having a home grown industry to support this; we here embarked had adopted a dual use nature = civilian and mil use.

It starts from basics - Aluminium industry is sorely needed. Given many reactors coming online for power; this is a direct impact industry that could be spun off.

 

[denel]

I and many others posted it on this forum in past with pictures and articles so would not repeat it but would only summarize that PAC receive Middle Fuselage and Engine Bay from china all other parts of the fuselage like wings, tails, cockpit and front fuselage is made in PAC and all metal sheet work is done in Pakistan.

Same is the case in avionics and larger percentage is manufactured in PAC facility including KLJ-7 Radar, Ruby configuration of Myanmar air force is bit different then PAF standard JF-17 configuration, as per some reports it use some different radar than KLJ-7 so China had greater share in the manufacturing of avionics of Ruby configuration as compared to standard configuration.

Noted; this goes exactly to my first question; the sheet metal which is aluminium is probably also getting sourced from china; you need different types of aluminium alloys for this. Hence my note earlier on the state of aluminium production and alloys. Below is example from local industry which also exports various alloys for Boeing and LHM. With so many power plants in Pak coming online; is it not a good time to have this endeavour come to play; so much forex could be saved and export of materials and local industry support.

For the KLJ-7; this is most likely assembly from components or prefabs units that are put together and passed through QA and integration testing. What is missed is exactly the next step; e.g. internal R&D and further evolution of the KLJ-7 or even better local labs for creating local radar; what i want to call out is even in China most of this R&D is done at their universities not in their military complexes which is my point. The reason for this as follows - we deliberately put backdoors in every system especially radar/EW. What has been done to understand there is no backdoor or that PAC has ownership of the backdoors.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Yes, ovens. This is a company that supplies parts manufactured with composites to the F-35 program. Take a look at their capabilities

Our Capabilities | Quickstep - Advance Composite Manufacturing Solutions

Our capabilities deliver the full spectrum of services, from design, planning, and manufacturing. We have a 16,000 sqm state of the art aerospace composite manufacturing plant at Bankstown Airport in Sydney. Read more on our website.

www.quickstep.com.au

@Bossman

You are talking to someone who has advanced coursework in composites. I know what I am talking about & I need not resort to making google searches to sound knowledgeable & important.

You think you can make High performance Carbon composites with a simple oven? Sure you could take carbon fiber & epoxy and make it pass through an oven to speed up curing process, but it would be nowhere as strong or resilient as one that it cured in an autoclave.

It is just idiotic to thing Ovens = High performance composites. I would be really worried if someone was using ovens to cure panels for JF-17.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Brother,

He is a Pakistan hater, who has been exposed many times.
He is not here to learn, but to collect intel, spread dis-info and dishearten people.
Let him lead the blind, you ignore, and carry on your good work.

On the other hand, can I humbly request you to take it easy with @Chak Bamu ? You two fine gentlemen, seem to have gotten of on a wrong foot. A reset/ de-escalation could sort things out, for both. After all, we all are on the same team.

Good day to you Sir!

One could think whatever one wishes about someone. The point is that one must not disrespect senior knowledgeable posters by calling them names whilst one is not exactly the brightest bulb in the bunch himself. What de-escalation could there be when it is not shades of gray but black-and-white business? I thank you for your intervention, but do realize that it is not person(s) but principle involved in this.

For the benefit of everyone it is important to know the context. In the past PAF had hired South African engineers on certain systems including H2 and H4. Denel had aspired to be one of those engineers, however despite his efforts his offer was rejected. The reason for rejection was that he was considered a security risk because of his close links with Israel. PAF concluded that Mossad was trying to plant an agent In AERO.

Its the principle, not the person. You could have corrected him, but you chose to attack him verbally.

 

[Trango Towers]

Typhoon T3 is the best solution, though the US might still meddle out of habit. But given the current financial status there might be no Western aircraft induction for the foreseeable future.

I am also not pinning hopes on AZM, since many keep trumpeting it, given Pakistan's present financial and technical incapacitation. Sure, solution for the technical issue could be outsourced from China but we are virtually sitting with empty pockets.

Leasing measly numbers of J-10Cs, as many have promoted here, is the worst idea. To invest in something you do not actually own and then build an infrastructure around it would be waste of resources of epic proportions.

I am afraid, unless a government that is able to exercise balance between the smaller services and the bigger service comes to power and is also able to revive the economy, we would not see a worthy induction for the Air Force. Navy got lucky in the past decade or so with two administrations having chalked out its induction plan. Plus, China was poking Pakistan to improve the PN to secure its sea trade in the Arabian Sea.

What a negative and defeatist mindset you have.
People said the same about the JF17
Al khalid
Nukes
Missiles
Drones

And u will see once again you will be proven wrong. I hope you are not so negative in your personal life because you wife will beat you black and blue

 

[Big_bud]

It was a joke

Your cover is blown! Go back to where u came from!

 

[arjunk]

Ovens = High performance composites.

Teja samosas were made in ovens. As we all know Tejas are superior to the NGAD. Thus, ovens = high performance composites.

What a negative and defeatist mindset you have.
People said the same about the JF17
Al khalid
Nukes
Missiles
Drones

And u will see once again you will be proven wrong. I hope you are not so negative in your personal life because you wife will beat you black and blue

Missiles, Nukes were a success because the existence of Pakistan depended on them. In fact, many of our early missile designs are repainted Chinese or North Korean ones. Later ones were modified and redesigned, and some such as Ababeel are very unique (though the Chinese are said to have shared MIRV technology with us).

We are yet to see any successful and widespread use of our drones. We are still importing Chinese ones.

JF-17 and Al-Khalid are behind schedule. Again, JF-17 was a dire need of the PAF.

Pakistanis are smart enough to get stuff done. However, they are stupid enough to not bother doing it unless their very survival depends on it. Just look at all the easy opportunities we have lost and all the tough times we have survived.

 

[Thorough Pro]

In comparative terms, even Thunder is touching close to 150 in numbers. With all the research and development costs and time invested in the development of a fighter jet, 100 is peanuts for commercial success.

Brazil ,South Africa and Czech airforces are the operators of Gripen in addition to Swedish air force with about 100s of un8ts produced and sold.
if this is a commercial flop then you have very exaggerated crietaria for success of a jet fighter.

 

[Trango Towers]

Teja samosas were made in ovens. As we all know Tejas are superior to the NGAD. Thus, ovens = high performance composites.


Missiles, Nukes were a success because the existence of Pakistan depended on them. In fact, many of our early missile designs are repainted Chinese or North Korean ones. Later ones were modified and redesigned, and some such as Ababeel are very unique (though the Chinese are said to have shared MIRV technology with us).

We are yet to see any successful and widespread use of our drones. We are still importing Chinese ones.

JF-17 and Al-Khalid are behind schedule. Again, JF-17 was a dire need of the PAF.

Pakistanis are smart enough to get stuff done. However, they are stupid enough to not bother doing it unless their very survival depends on it. Just look at all the easy opportunities we have lost and all the tough times we have survived.

Yes and here they have no choice and they will do it

 

[denel]

In comparative terms, even Thunder is touching close to 150 in numbers. With all the research and development costs and time invested in the development of a fighter jet, 100 is peanuts for commercial success.

no friend, it is already over 200+; with the brazilian order; there is a long road ahead.

However you cannot compare a gripen e to jf17; they are a decade apart in terms of everything; think of jf17 as a poor man's gripen but it is still not a gripen - not even close; everything from a system level - they are at completely different playing field; let us not even discuss engines or capability.

Swedes failed to capitalise but remember their rule is to ensure local procurement. It is a written law - not to purchase from outside; if they are able to export then bonus.

 

[Thorough Pro]

I wasn't comparing capability rather investment vs produced numbers

no friend, it is already over 200+; with the brazilian order; there is a long road ahead.

However you cannot compare a gripen e to jf17; they are a decade apart in terms of everything; think of jf17 as a poor man's gripen but it is still not a gripen - not even close; everything from a system level - they are at completely different playing field; let us not even discuss engines or capability.

Swedes failed to capitalise but remember their rule is to ensure local procurement. It is a written law - not to purchase from outside; if they are able to export then bonus.

 

[denel]

I wasn't comparing capability rather investment vs produced numbers

no worries. Still Gripen is ahead; but if we are to be fair, we need to ensure that it is measured comparably.

 

[SQ8]

no worries. Still Gripen is ahead; but if we are to be fair, we need to ensure that it is measured comparably.

And with requirements in mind - both were built and designed to very different air Staff requirements.

 

[denel]

And with requirements in mind - both were built and designed to very different air Staff requirements.

Correct - jf17 blueprint was to be like Gripen from ease of use and maintainability.