Is the Pakistan army martial?

[yyetttt]

Most people in present day India were too weak and impoverished to fight the invaders.. Thats why India came under enslavation so many times

 

[Desert Fox]

Interestingly South Indians owned one of the most ancient form of Martial arts.. they still practise it there.

Kalari - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Too bad none of this came in handy when the Britisher brought with them guns, battleships, and field cannons. Ever wonder why the Japanese made drastic changes to their fighting strategy and weapons employment; from Katanas to rifles and iron clad warships.

Interesting isn't it, that the little Island nation of Europe that had no unique martial arts form of fighting was able to dominate nations which did. And the only Eastern armies that were able to defeat them were armed with guns and not some foot kicking, sword dancing fighting method.

As the saying goes; "Never bring a knife(or any bladed object) to a gun fight".

 

[Desert Fox]

Most people in present day India were too weak and impoverished to fight the invaders.. Thats why India came under enslavation so many times

I have seen these Uzbeks and Turkmen in real life, they are natural born fighters, no wonder these guys were able to rule vast empires in their times. There are countless Turkic empires, Mughals included (the original Mughals, not the ones who later intermarried into the locals and thus lost their Turkic qualities).

 

[yyetttt]

I have seen these Uzbeks and Turkmen in real life, they are natural born fighters, no wonder these guys were able to rule vast empires in their times. There are countless Turkic empires, Mughals included (the original Mughals, not the ones who later intermarried into the locals and thus lost their Turkic qualities).

Haha.. Now they are nothing but cavemen... You call them warriors, I call them a hit and run chickens

 

[dollarman]

Most people in present day India were too weak and impoverished to fight the invaders.. Thats why India came under enslavation so many times

You do know that when you say India, it actually means Pakistan more. Present day Pakistan has had less son-of-the-soil "ingeniousness rulers" than India. If you take away Ranjit Singh, it is practically nil.

 

[yyetttt]

You do know that when you say India, it actually means Pakistan more. Present day Pakistan has had less son-of-the-soil "ingeniousness rulers" than India. If you take away Ranjit Singh, it is practically nil.

Any proof of that? Or regular brain fart?

 

[DARKY]

Too bad none of this came in handy when the Britisher brought with them guns, battleships, and field cannons. Ever wonder why the Japanese made drastic changes to their fighting strategy and weapons employment; from Katanas to rifles and iron clad warships.

Interesting isn't it, that the little Island nation of Europe that had no unique martial arts form of fighting was able to dominate nations which did. And the only Eastern armies that were able to defeat them were armed with guns and not some foot kicking, sword dancing fighting method.

As the saying goes; "Never bring a knife(or any bladed object) to a gun fight".

Other than British and Aurangzeb(for a short time) most of these parts remained independent from rest of India... they also had a powerful navy and conquered land overseas... If you know about the Chola Empire.

Besides that its not the gun/sword.. Martial arts bring self respect and discipline in life... other than martial and military values... which is more important be it sword or Gun... Japanese still had the samurai values with them during the WW2 hence they lost and died with respect performing sepucu and crashing their planes on American warship... now such values are hard to find and we see it being one of the better favored US puppy.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I have seen these Uzbeks and Turkmen in real life, they are natural born fighters, no wonder these guys were able to rule vast empires in their times. There are countless Turkic empires, Mughals included (the original Mughals, not the ones who later intermarried into the locals and thus lost their Turkic qualities).

My dear dear poster,

you are confusing warlord-ism with modern day disciplined military forces. There is a huge difference between the two. Warlordism needs limited brain power and brute force. Modern warfare on the other hand needs more brain power and the use of sophisticated logistics, weapons, industrial complex etc.

you comparison is like saying neanderthals were superior to modern humans. Well yeah for a while. But then brain power and better industry and education slowly but surely eliminated the brute force. And now we read about neanderthals as part of anthropological study.

I am sure you have heard the saying "Aql bari keh bhains".

or perhaps, my efforts in this thread are futile because my argument are like "bhains kay agay been bajana".

peace

 

[DARKY]

Actually there is a martial art. It is now dying, but I think some Sikh baba is trying to revive it.

By grandfather had told me about it. It was called Gatka.

Gatka still practiced here and is a usual affair every Sikh occasion or Republic day/15th Aug.

 

[dollarman]

Any proof of that? Or regular brain fart?

Geographically speaking, every time India got invaded, Pakistan was the first to fall, because it was en-route the path the invaders took from North-West of the subcontinent. Feel free to prove me wrong...

Indegious Indian rulers (these are not one, but entire generations of dynasties):
Kurus
Vaishalis
Mahajanpadas
Nanda
Magadha
Gandharas
Gangaridai
Mauryas
Pali
Cholas
Kharavelas
Kishans
Guptas
Tipu Sultan
many more, this is just off the top of my head

Indegenious Pakistani rulers:
Raja Dahir (lost to Arab Bin Qasim eventually)
King Porus
Ranjit Singh

If you consider by birth, then all the Mughals except Babur were born in India too, and all of them after Akbar had Indian mothers, therefore part Indian genes, strictly genetically speaking.

Look at the Indegenious Pakistani rulers list, compare that to India, and you get why India is still following its ancient religions and customs compared to Pakistan which was overrun so many times by invaders that it eventually started changing its culture/religions and traditions to match those of its anvaders. I know people are touchy here when it comes to religion, but I am strictly making a neutral observation.

Another interesting thing is look at the names of the so called sons-of-soil of Pak, and compare them to your names, and you can somewhat guess what happened there, The so called Pakistani sons-of-soil (who were Hindu/Sikh Punjabis in the ancient times fighting against Afghans/Arabs/Turks/Iranids) were invaded/defeated, and gradually changed to their invaders culture/way-of-life to what we have left over in present day Pakistan.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Geographically speaking, every time India got invaded, Pakistan was the first to fall, because it was en-route the path the invaders took from North-West of the subcontinent. ...

Well man. This is what Indians want to believe in. That's fine.

In reality, India is nothing but Ganga Valley civilization, where aborigines the real "Indians" were enslaved and turned into untouchables. You should really cry about their fate if you believe in Indian-ness.

Pakistanis are Sindh valley people. At least no one has turned us into untouchables, shudras, etc. etc.

peace to you.

 

[dollarman]

Well man. This is what Indians want to believe in. That's fine.

In reality, India is nothing but Ganga Valley civilization, where aborigines the real "Indians" were enslaved and turned into untouchables. You should really cry about their fate if you believe in Indian-ness.

Pakistanis are Sindh valley people. At least no one has turned us into untouchables, shudras, etc. etc.

peace to you.

You are taking the discussion to a completely different path, I was strictly talking about invasions and sons-of-soil rulers that jellodragon bought up, not civilizational differences.

Regardless, I will entertain your queries. Are you claiming that the ancient Hindus of Pakistan did not follow the caste system? Or are you claiming that they followed the caste system but there were no low caste Pakistanis? Because you might be in for a surprise either way...

Caste is pretty irrelevant in India for the most part today though, I didnt know what caste I belonged to until I got curious and asked my Mother on my 19th birthday, and I was born and bought up in Mumbai in the 1990s. I can see things being even more liberal today with the economic success in the last 20 years and liberal atmosphere that has been created by Inedian media like Bollywood and TV serials.

 

[FaujHistorian]

You are taking the discussion to a completely different path, I was strictly talking about invasions and sons-of-soil rulers that jellodragon bought up, not civilizational differences.

Regardless, I will entertain your queries. Are you claiming that the ancient Hindus of Pakistan did not follow the caste system? Or are you claiming that they followed the caste system but there were no low caste Pakistanis? Because you might be in for a surprise either way...

Caste is pretty irrelevant in India for the most part today though, I didnt know what caste I belonged to until I got curious and asked my Mother on my 19th birthday, and I was born and bought up in Mumbai in the 1990s. I can see things being even more liberal today with the economic success in the last 20 years and liberal atmosphere that has been created by Inedian media like Bollywood and TV serials.

Well I agree that in 2012 Urban India caste is losing its charm, but majority of Indians do not live in urban area and thus for India as a whole caste remains dominant. you will know about your caste when you are ready to get married. I am sure your parents would like marry you within your caste. Whatever happens though, you can't wipe away 1000s of years of cruelty and barbarity heaped on the aborigines of India. Never. Unless you belong to an upper caste.

You are correct that Hindus of Indus valley did practice caste-ism. That's precisely why their religion remained a tiny minority. Upper caste Hindus could not convert large majority of locals into shudras like they did so successfully in the ganga valley. Whatever untouchable we had were the run-aways from ganga valley who came to our part as refugees. Brahmins could only build tiny temples in the indus valley (compared to ganga) why? Because the natives of Indus valley never allowed build giant temples as they did in ganga valley.

However Bhuddism and other egalitarian concepts did thrive along Indus valley river system. Islam too in the early stages thrived only because of its free-thinking single mosque for all approach mainly be Sufi mystics.

Had Islam been anything like today's Mullah Talib nutcase disease, it would not have been adopted by egalitarian by nature Sindhis and Punjabis and Buddists of modern day KPK.


peace

 

[xyxmt]

Interestingly South Indians owned one of the most ancient form of Martial arts.. they still practise it there.

Kalari - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or even something similar to the recent one we have on our side of Punjab.

Gatka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BTW.. what is your village and what form of martial arts do you follow for being a martial race.

in our side of world, we are famous for martial art of Real Fighting with sharp Swords
BTW I forgot the name of that great south Indian Empire, what was it??

 

[Peregrine]

Pointless thread!