Is the Pakistan army martial?

[FaujHistorian]

No answer to the question as expected.



Irrelevant to the question. And on seeing Daal, I am reminded what the Afghans call the Punjabi Muslims.




Because the topic is about Punjabi Muslims. Duhhhh.




Again irrelevant. You can start a topic called "Were the Hindus much farther east really martial ? "

So some dimwit named "Aakar Patel" pens some childish stuff. People don't confront him because they don't understand what the heck he is talking about.

Then a guy with Indian flags posts that $hite

then bunch of Indians jump in this $hit with dhotis flying behind their tails.


All this halla gulla even when the posted article is purely racial nonsense. And Indians are supposed to be secular, goodly goodly people who do yoga and believe in "nun-violence" and don't believe in castism Shiaism hinduism sunnism.

Then you my dear poster show up with even $tupider question (pardon me from my French).

You accept or not, the author of this rubbish article is clearly trying to rewrite history from Hindu nationalistic point of view. It gives all the examples of why everything in India is good for 1000 years and why everything is wrong with Pakistan.

And you Sir want to say this article is ONLY about Punjabi Muslims. I just have one comment to your assertion. Bull---IT.

The article clearly wants to prove that Hindus farther east were truly martial and Muslims in Punjab are not.


What can I say, Indians with all their so-called liberation are still little baffoons when it comes to Pakistan and Pak army.


peace to you my dear Indian even when you do not desire it.

peace to you.

 

[TaimiKhan]

This will never be found in 'official documents'. Though seldom used in today's context, it has been alleged that Pakistan Military believed in the concept of martial races and they thus thought that they would easily defeat India in a war, especially prior to the Second Kashmir War.

According to Stanley Wolpert in his book, India, published by the University of California Press, 1990, based on this belief in martial supremacy, it was popularly hyped that one Pakistani soldier was equal to four to ten Hindus/Indian soldiers, and thus numerical superiority of the foe could be overcome. By the way, it was Bhutto and his cohorts who forced the hand of General Ayub Khan for undertaking Operaton Giblaltar to capture Kashmir, because of this very myth. But needless to say, it ended in disaster.

But a lot of water has flowed under the bridge, and this myth has all but vanished especially after the 65 and 71 wars.

Buddy, i have spent 25 years of my life around army officers and installations and i have never ever heard of any martial race lecture or talk among the officers or soldiers or they being taught that at any stage of their carrer. Rather i have been hearing a lot about the fighting capability of the Indian Army and PA officers never under estimate that. A sane officer would never under estimate his enemy no matter who it is. Thus if some general to show off or in his drunk mode talks some rubbish like that or someone invents such a theory for propaganda or moral building measure, that is something else, but officially martial race or 1 Pak soldier equal to 4 or 10 has never been taught nor is the policy.

And as for inferior forces overwhelming superior forces, that has been going on since the very first day when wars began and by looking at past, soldiers do presume that it may happen again if someone is inferior, but that needs other factors too for such an assumption to succeed.

Anyway, there is no martial race concept in Pak Army nor does they believe themselves to be equal to 10 Indian soldiers, rather they respect the courage and fighting capabilities of the IA, had that not been the case, we would have not needed to induct any tanks or do massive exercises or make nuke weapons or keep such a large army.

 

[humanfirst]

So some dimwit named "Aakar Patel" pens some childish stuff. People don't confront him because they don't understand what the heck he is talking about.

Then a guy with Indian flags posts that $hite

then bunch of Indians jump in this $hit with dhotis flying behind their tails.


All this halla gulla even when the posted article is purely racial nonsense. And Indians are supposed to be secular, goodly goodly people who do yoga and believe in "nun-violence" and don't believe in castism Shiaism hinduism sunnism.

Then you my dear poster show up with even $tupider question (pardon me from my French).

You accept or not, the author of this rubbish article is clearly trying to rewrite history from Hindu nationalistic point of view. It gives all the examples of why everything in India is good for 1000 years and why everything is wrong with Pakistan.

And you Sir want to say this article is ONLY about Punjabi Muslims. I just have one comment to your assertion. Bull---IT.

The article clearly wants to prove that Hindus farther east were truly martial and Muslims in Punjab are not.


What can I say, Indians with all their so-called liberation are still little baffoons when it comes to Pakistan and Pak army.


peace to you my dear Indian even when you do not desire it.

peace to you.

Have you ever seen East or south indians trying to prove they are martial or claiming superiority over others..?On the other hand i have seen dozens and dozens of pakistanis especially punjabis claiming their martial superiority over veggie indians,punjabi muslims claiming their rule over indians for 1000 years etc!!This is my experience both online (even in this forum)and in real life..Haven't you seen that as well?Fauji historian..The article is simply questioning the veracity of that popular martial superiority theory claimed by many pak punjabis.

Btw pakistan army does not need any martial race theory to prove its greatness..Its the valour and professionalism that makes even the enemies respect them.A sindhi or mohajir soldier wont be any less professional than punjabi soldier and any less respected.

 

[TaimiKhan]

The ironic thing is that even IF at one point the Pak Army did claim martial superiority it is the Indian who constantly bring it up 40 years after the fact. Perhaps Pakistanis are not so overconfident and you Indians are just insecure.

The best post of the thread.

 

[humanfirst]

500 years of ruling them, they wont be off hook so easily. we were only 200 years under British rule and we are still writing all applications starting with "I Beg to State", so you can imagine what 500 years rule might have done to there Psyche. Left side of their brain says they are better than us now and more powerful but right side says nooooo

This exactly is the point of this thread...500 years how many rulers from present day pakistan ruled over india..?

 

[Bhairava]

I asked a simple question : Has there been any Punjabi Muslim ruler who had ruled over the Punjab for a significant time in the last 1000 odd years and I get everything except an answer. I see many Pak punjabis boast many a time that 'they' ruled over 'us'. I'm just trying to know who 'exactly' ruled over 'us'.

You accept or not, the author of this rubbish article is clearly trying to rewrite history from Hindu nationalistic point of view.

If you have any idea of Aakar Patel, you would know he is a rabid anti-Hindutva columnist. Just go through his columns.

And you Sir want to say this article is ONLY about Punjabi Muslims. I just have one comment to your assertion. Bull---IT.

This is the article from Firstpost and obviously about the Punjabi Muslim.

Perception vs reality: Is the Punjabi muslim really martial? | Firstpost

No one questioned the warlike tendencies of the Pathans. I for one would not.

The article clearly wants to prove that Hindus farther east were truly martial and Muslims in Punjab are not.

So you did not read the article after all. Coz inside the article are these lines :

This is fine and many states of India are not martial. Few soldiers were produced by Bengal’s Hindus for instance, and not many by Gujarat even today. But they don’t have the militant bombast of the Punjabi Muslim (who apparently equals 10 Hindus).

Read, read, read the article before attempting to comment on that.

But yes, there were indeed some Hindus further east who were extraordinarily martial - like the Marathas. But then again that is not the point of this topic.

 

[humanfirst]

This is the Martial Spirit of Punjabi Muslims.

The Tiger

TIGER, tiger, burning bright
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

In what distant deeps or skies
Burnt the fire of thine eyes?

On what wings dare he aspire?
What the hand dare seize the fire?

And what shoulder and what art
Could twist the sinews of thy heart?

And when thy heart began to beat,
What dread hand and what dread feet?

What the hammer? what the chain?
In what furnace was thy brain?

What the anvil? What dread grasp
Dare its deadly terrors clasp?

When the stars threw down their spears,
And water'd heaven with their tears,
Did He smile His work to see?
Did He who made the lamb make thee?

Tiger, tiger, burning bright
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?

William Blake

Care to mention the names of some martial spirited punjabi muslim warriors..?Someone at the level of Tipu Sultan or Ranjit singh..

 

[Bhairava]

Punjabi Muslims actually broke treaties with Afghans because they were massacring Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs.

Can you expound on that ?

Punjabi Muslims under whose command ? Broke treaties with Afghans under whose rule ? This happened when ? Which battle was that ? The exact details ?

 

[SpArK]

Martial was a word coined by Imperial British to classify ethnic groups during 1857. They were around 30 classes ranging from deep north to even Kerala.

They used it to classify people to draw people into their armies.

Surprising to see some have still got that Imperialist Slavish mentality and keeping that British given title as a priced possession...... Priceless.

Martial Race - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[illusion8]

This exactly is the point of this thread...500 years how many rulers from present day pakistan ruled over india..?

At last count ....zilch

I ask because there’s no evidence of their martial character in our history. No general, no subedar, no thanedar, no wazir, no bakhshi of the Mughal empire was a Punjabi Muslim so far as I know.
I might be wrong about this but there are only two Punjabi Muslims named in Mughal texts. The first is Kamaal Khan Gakkhar, who submitted (without fighting) to Akbar in 1576, according to Akbarnama. The second is Jalal Khan Gakkhar, an old man named among the victims by Jahangir in a skirmish with Afghans in 1620.

The fact is that the Punjabi Muslim is a convert mainly from the peasantry (Jat) which is not martial. General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani is Gakkhar, a caste that claims Rajput ancestry.

This article actually breaks down all the BS that we have been hearing for the last few months on PDF about ruling over India and martial cr@p

What a bunch of losers

 

[free thinker]

At last count ....zilch





This article actually breaks down all the BS that we have been hearing for the last few months on PDF about ruling over India and martial cr@p

What a bunch of losers

Yes exactly!
The guy who wrote this...Aakar Patel is known to obsess over pakistanis.
You should read his article about why Indian punjabis are much more successful compared to their pakistani counter parts.

 

[Arya Desa]

The dark-skinned South Indians really have a problem with Punjabis. Pogroms against us in 84 and 4 wars against Pakistan. Darkies suffer from an inferiority complex

 

[Bhairava]

The dark-skinned South Indians really have a problem with Punjabis. . Darkies suffer from an inferiority complex

Aakaer Patel is not a Southie nor is he speaking about the Indian Punjabis.

Pogroms against us in 84 and 4 wars against Pakistan

Errr....the South Indians were involved in neither of the above. So can we stick to the topic.

 

[free thinker]

The dark-skinned South Indians really have a problem with Punjabis. Pogroms against us in 84 and 4 wars against Pakistan. Darkies suffer from an inferiority complex

Yes very true.
This is what South Indian Aakar PATEL and the South Indian newspaper Express Tribune are trying to highlight!
wow you understand India so well!!!

 

[tarrar]

Here we go again another horse crap & new ways to point fingures at Pak Army. Why can't these people just STFU & why can't Hindis stop promoting all this non sense bullsh*t? It just shows what you all have in your mind & what you think.

Please do us all a favor &