Is patriotism in India and Pakistan defined by hate for each other??

[Krishnan]

I personally believe in friendship projects like 'Aman ki asha' and cross-border music and film projects. In fact I believe in a common human spaceflight program. Rather than costly military programs aimed at each other I believe in resources being employed for the benefits of the common man in either country. Rather than mutual hates at government level, I would like to see similar progressive political systems in the central governments of either country.

What is your opinion??

Note : I am not including other South Asian countries because they don't have that much controversy with either India or Pakistan.

---

@Zibago @django @Mentee @RealNapster @Moonlight @waz @I.R.A @Spring Onion

Firstly I would like to say thank you for opening this thread brother and for focusing on this issue.

Indeed, initiatives like Aman ki Asha are a great step, one of many, towards an eventual reconciliation between the two artificially divided countries (Pakistanis and Indians are very similar).

Cultural initiatives are excellent like exchanging of celebrities and the cross-border marriages between major personalities from Pakistan and India as this normalizes cross border marriages in the eyes of the average Pakistani and Indian.

Like the latest sing that our Pakistani liberal friend @Zibago recently posted is a good example of this initiative:

@I.R.A
Chita chola the OG Pakistani bonfire song winters,fog and singing chita chola

Even interreligious marriages between Hindus and Muslims should be normalized (which they are happening) so that this way religious differences and tensions can finally end and thus the religious basis for partition can be null and void.

My favorite Pakistani/Muslim-Indian/Hindu couple, daughter of Noor Jehan married to Indian Hindu Banker Vivek Narain

 

[Hamza913]

If one were to believe many of this forum's postings, patriotism for Indians and Pakistanis is mainly defined by hate and contempt for each other. Rather than progress in human terms together as two similar South Asian countries, India and Pakistan have been on constant collision course since 1947.

I personally believe in friendship projects like 'Aman ki asha' and cross-border music and film projects. In fact I believe in a common human spaceflight program. Rather than costly military programs aimed at each other I believe in resources being employed for the benefits of the common man in either country. Rather than mutual hates at government level, I would like to see similar progressive political systems in the central governments of either country.

What is your opinion??

Note : I am not including other South Asian countries because they don't have that much controversy with either India or Pakistan.

---

@Zibago @django @Mentee @RealNapster @Moonlight @waz @I.R.A @Spring Onion

Until Hindustan ceases any and all misdemeanours against Pakistan and Muslims as a whole, I will continue to be sickened by anyone even suggesting we should be at peace with your leadership, let alone hold hands and sing kumbiyah.

Also, other South Asian countries have plenty of problems with Pakistan and Hindustan, e.g Afghanistan and Bangladesh.

Hate is a strong word...

No, it's not strong enough to describe how we feel about each other.

This would be an interesting topic, That's one of my questions too.

Well, can you be friends with Israel or the US? Of course not. Apply that logic to our relationship with Hindustan.

 

[El Sidd]

About working and acting differently, can you provide two examples??

There are preset rules of observing human behavior both Collective and individual.

Observe their dealings with money and how they travel and adapt in neutral sorroundings. You will See the differences.

 

[jamahir]

The trust defecit is too high

Atal Bihari Vajpayeeji (may he rest in peace) went to Lahore and within months there was the Kargil War.

Modiji also went to Pakistan for peace but terrorism continues

More or less yes it is due to differences should be like this? No would it change? Sadly no at best i see the continuation of status quo

That is why I stress that Indians and Pakistanis should adopt a similar political system ( Direct Democracy ). They can remain individual countries but their trust deficit will be removed.

Even interreligious marriages between Hindus and Muslims should be normalized (which they are happening) so that this way religious differences and tensions can finally end and thus the religious basis for partition can be null and void.

There was an Indian female member here, @ajtr , who I believe got married to a Pakistani and now lives in Pakistan.

 

[Krishnan]

The reality is that the hatred between Pakistanis and indians is the most intense & powerful hatred between any 2 sets of different peoples ANYWHERE on the Earth.

Have you ever seen Serbians and Bosnians?
That's what real hatred looks like

Outside of the subcontinent Pakistanis and Indians get along better than with any other group of people

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

About working and acting differently, can you provide two examples??



1. You live in Britian. Do the native Brits see you and some Indian-origin person as the same or are you treated differently??

2. I believe that it is because of the residual feudalism in Pakistan that tribalism ( your "racial" point ) has gotten so prominent and thus you talk about different culture and heritage. If say, Faiz Ahmed Faiz had succeeded in his socialist coup in 1951, you in 2018 would have been speaking in a different way.

3. You in Pakistan have a large number of citizens who are mohajirs - originally from the east of pre-1947 India. That covers the rest of your points.

Your point (1) is ludicrous................White Brits even think and have confused Brazilians, Italians, Greek and Puerto Ricans as Pakistanis.............doesn't mean to say us Pakistanis are the same as them. Also, Pakistan has a FAR greater proportion of people (at least 40%) who are racially identical to Persians/Iranians and Afghan Pathans. That doesn't make us Pakistanis Persian or Middle Eastern just as it doesn't make us the same as indians. Thr Mohajir community is FAR FAR smaller compared to these groups. Your points therefore are completely irrelevant.

Also in the UK, there is less racism from Whites towards Pakistanis then there is from indians/hindus/sikhs towards Pakistanis and Muslims. So your OP is alreay a non-starter.......

 

[Krishnan]

There was an Indian female member here, @ajtr , who I believe got married to a Pakistani and now lives in Pakistan.

Yes, I have heard of her.

My mother is Pakistani Muslim and my father a Indian Hindu.

 

[Hamza913]

I disagree. The differences between India and Pakistan are similar to North Korea and South Korea.

No, they're MUCH bigger.

This is part of the problem, you guys keep saying "wE r dE sAME" when we're clearly not, and it agitates a lot of us (especially Pashtuns, Baluchis, Hazara's and people from GB).

 

[jamahir]

Until Hindustan ceases any and all misdemeanours against Pakistan and Muslims as a whole, I will continue to be sickened by anyone even suggesting we should be at peace with your leadership, let alone hold hands and sing kumbiyah.

Agreed.

But same should be from your side. For example, extradite to India people like Hafiz Saeed.

 

[Hamza913]

YOU ARE MAKING ME TO FEEL MUCH MUCH MORE PROUD for being an INDIAN...

Your people were conquered by ours (Muslims) for hundreds of years.

If that won't humble you, I don't know what will.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Have you ever seen Serbians and Bosnians?
That's what real hatred looks like

Outside of the subcontinent Pakistanis and Indians get along better than with any other group of people

Don't agree. Serbians and Croats have not killed a million of eachother. In August 1947, the Pakistanis and indians did. That CAN NEVER EVER be forgotton or forgiven. All else is just conjecture.

 

[Krishnan]

Until Hindustan ceases any and all misdemeanours against Pakistan and Muslims as a whole, I will continue to be sickened by anyone even suggesting we should be at peace with your leadership, let alone hold hands and sing kumbiyah.

Also, other South Asian countries have plenty of problems with Pakistan and Hindustan, e.g Afghanistan and Bangladesh.



No, it's not strong enough to describe how we feel about each other.



Well, can you be friends with Israel or the US? Of course not. Apply that logic to our relationship with Hindustan.

No, they're MUCH bigger.

This is part of the problem, you guys keep saying "wE r dE sAME" when we're clearly not, and it agitates a lot of us (especially Pashtuns, Baluchis, Hazara's and people from GB).

We're actually not as different as some Pakistanis are making it out to be. We speak the same language and watch hindi/Urdu movies and tv shows. We have the same skin color and culture and traditions. Also we marry one another alot,a like Noor Jahan's daughter who married a Indian Hindu millionaire.

 

[MultaniGuy]

We're actually not as different as some Pakistanis are making it out to be. We speak the same language and watch hindi/Urdu movies and tv shows. We have the same skin color and culture and traditions. Also we marry one another alot,a like Noor Japan's daughter who married a Indian Hindu millionaire.

lol what is this bullshit?

Pakistanis are completely different to Indians.

We have nothing in common with you Indians.

You are a false flagger. Remove your Pakistani flags.

 

[Hamza913]

1. You live in Britian. Do the native Brits see you and some Indian-origin person as the same or are you treated differently??

2. I believe that it is because of the residual feudalism in Pakistan that tribalism ( your "racial" point ) has gotten so prominent and thus you talk about different culture and heritage. If say, Faiz Ahmed Faiz had succeeded in his socialist coup in 1951, you in 2018 would have been speaking in a different way.

3. You in Pakistan have a large number of citizens who are mohajirs - originally from the east of pre-1947 India. That covers the rest of your points.

1. Usually we are treated differently, but it does vary depending on whether or not the Pakistani in question looks more Hindustani or Afghan/Middle Eastern. Since I fall into the latter category, I can literally call Hindustanis curry munchers and get away with it (all in good fun of course, I don't actually mock people for such petty things).

2. The caste system is still alive and kicking in Hindustan, where as in Pakistan it only ever becomes important when people get married.

3. Only 8%, which is pretty small.

 

[Novice09]

Your people were conquered by ours (Muslims) for hundreds of years.

If that won't humble you, I don't know what will.

You are enjoying the fruit of that by having two nations on land where Hindus were living before that...

Their were several Hindus who changed their religion under the shadow of swords in these region...