Is patriotism in India and Pakistan defined by hate for each other??

[Soumitra]

I may be naive on this but if either country adopts the same progressive political system ( what I always promote - Direct Democracy ) then they can be two individual countries but removed of distrust. I mean, why would we need to fight with each other when both our political systems are similar !!



Agreed, especially about the peaceful solution part.

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@Levina @jbgt90 @Joe Shearer @takeiteasy @ranjeet @Soumitra - I hadn't tagged you earlier.

The trust defecit is too high

Atal Bihari Vajpayeeji (may he rest in peace) went to Lahore and within months there was the Kargil War.

Modiji also went to Pakistan for peace but terrorism continues

 

[El Sidd]

May be to some extent but hate from Indian side is reactionary in nature.

You cannot make this argument Prasad.

 

[jamahir]

NOT HAPPENING EVER. It's like asking Israeli Jews to have peace and friendship with Nazi Germans. The reality is that the hatred between Pakistanis and indians is the most intense & powerful hatred between any 2 sets of different peoples ANYWHERE on the Earth. That will NEVER go away. On top of that, the differences between Pakistan and india are too unbridgeable. Another thing is that the destiny of Pakistan is firmly intertwinned with that of China and Turkey. These 2 nations matter the most to Pakistan. All others are irrelevant. Everything we need we can get from these 2 countries. india and Pakistan are both COMPLETELY irrelevant to one another. The REALITY is that is NEVER going to change.

I disagree. The differences between India and Pakistan are similar to North Korea and South Korea.

You simply have an identity crisis which most people do not have. It is a unique situation indeed.

You keep using that theme for me but I don't have any such crisis. I simply believe in humanism.

 

[war&peace]

Is patriotism in India and Pakistan defined by hate for each other??


Pakistan: No
India: Yes

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

You have a classic example of of Europe... I don't think that our difference are bigger than theirs...

Look at them now, most peaceful and developed region on earth... people from different countries roam FREELY in each other's territory... they have learnt their lesson by WW1 and WW2...

Hope we learn our lessons from their mistakes without any destruction of that magnitude...

The difference between Europeans is FAR less than the difference between Pakistanis and indians. Europeans are all White and Christian. The differences were political but Europeans were the SAME race and religion as one another. The differences between Pakistsnis and indians is BOTH racial and religious. Not to mention the deep, powerful and intense hatred.

 

[El Sidd]

I simply believe in humanism.

Then its human to disagree.
Pakistanis and Indians do not hate each other. They are just different and both think and work and act differently to each other.
A workable agreement though can be reached and road to Peace goes through Kashmir for Pakistan and India.

 

[Novice09]

India has lobbied strongly and used sabotage in both sectors which you concerned your post with.



You simply have an identity crisis which most people do not have. It is a unique situation indeed.

What is the best way to hide your failure?
Blame it on others...


If India is able to sabotage your elections... than it is the biggest failure of Pakistan as a nation...
You really need to rethink... we were able to do that for 71 years...

YOU ARE MAKING ME TO FEEL MUCH MUCH MORE PROUD for being an INDIAN...

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I disagree. The differences between India and Pakistan are similar to North Korea and South Korea.



You keep using that theme for me but I don't have any such crisis. I simply believe in humanism.

Lol................North and South Koreans are the SAME race, people, language, religion, culture and heritage. Just different political beliefs. The difference between Pakistanis and indians is RACIAL, RELIGIOUS, culture, heritage etc.

 

[El Sidd]

What is the best way to hide your failure?
Blame it on others...


If India is able to sabotage your elections... than it is the biggest failure of Pakistan as a nation...
You really need to rethink... we were able to do that for 71 years...

YOU ARE MAKING ME TO FEEL MUCH MUCH MORE PROUD for being an INDIAN...

By holding Pakistani capitalists hostage to Indian market and injecting consumerism?

 

[Novice09]

The difference between Europeans is FAR less than the difference between Pakistanis and indians. Europeans are all White and Christian. The diffeences were political but Europeans were the SAME race and religion as one another. The differences between Pakistsnis and indians is BOTH racial and religious. Not to mention the deep, powerful and intense hatred.

You have just justified what @Imran Khan have said...

what kids learn from childhood they follow it all the life .sadly

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

You have just justified what @Imran Khan have said...

What I believe is true. If it isn't then please debunk it with credible evidence.

 

[jamahir]

Is patriotism in India and Pakistan defined by hate for each other??


Pakistan: No
India: Yes

I agree that Pakistanis are gracious hosts to visiting Indian guests, like the Indian Hindi film actress Swara Bhaskar found out, or how the South Indian film actress Ramya found out and spoke about it.

It is also true that Pakistani medical patients receive come to India and receive the same care that would be given to any normal Indian patient. Also, there was a thread some days ago about a bunch of Pakistani students coming to India and finding the trip a pleasant time.

So it is not a direct yes and no.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I agree that Pakistanis are gracious hosts to visiting Indian guests, like the Indian Hindi film actress Swara Bhaskar found out, or how the South Indian film actress Ramya found out and spoke about it.

It is also true that Pakistani medical patients receive come to India and receive the same care that would be given to any normal Indian patient. Also, there was a thread some days ago about a bunch of Pakistani students coming to India and finding the trip a pleasant time.

So it is not a direct yes and no.

These things make NO DIFFERENCE in reality. Point is that from a Pakistani perspective, the ground reality is that there is now a firm understanding that Pakistan's future and destiny is firmly intertwinned with that of China and Turkey. Everyone is now coming round to that reality. Everything we do must be conducive to this. Having relations with india is irrelevant and makes no sense.

 

[Zibago]

If one were to believe many of this forum's postings, patriotism for Indians and Pakistanis is mainly defined by hate and contempt for each other. Rather than progress in human terms together as two similar South Asian countries, India and Pakistan have been on constant collision course since 1947.

I personally believe in friendship projects like 'Aman ki asha' and cross-border music and film projects. In fact I believe in a common human spaceflight program. Rather than costly military programs aimed at each other I believe in resources being employed for the benefits of the common man in either country. Rather than mutual hates at government level, I would like to see similar progressive political systems in the central governments of either country.

What is your opinion??

Note : I am not including other South Asian countries because they don't have that much controversy with either India or Pakistan.

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@Zibago @django @Mentee @RealNapster @Moonlight @waz @I.R.A @Spring Onion

More or less yes it is due to differences should be like this? No would it change? Sadly no at best i see the continuation of status quo

 

[jamahir]

Then its human to disagree.
Pakistanis and Indians do not hate each other. They are just different and both think and work and act differently to each other.
A workable agreement though can be reached and road to Peace goes through Kashmir for Pakistan and India.

About working and acting differently, can you provide two examples??

Lol................North and South Koreans are the SAME race, people, language, religion, culture and heritage. Just different political beliefs. The difference between Pakistanis and indians is RACIAL, RELIGIOUS, culture, heritage etc.

1. You live in Britian. Do the native Brits see you and some Indian-origin person as the same or are you treated differently??

2. I believe that it is because of the residual feudalism in Pakistan that tribalism ( your "racial" point ) has gotten so prominent and thus you talk about different culture and heritage. If say, Faiz Ahmed Faiz had succeeded in his socialist coup in 1951, you in 2018 would have been speaking in a different way.

3. You in Pakistan have a large number of citizens who are mohajirs - originally from the east of pre-1947 India. That covers the rest of your points.