Iranian Economy.....news and discussions

[SalarHaqq]

اقرا and when you have learned (after 16-24 years of education and learning ) something go sit at home and raise more kids since Salar and others in and/or outside government want to see more children in Iran.

Did you conduct a nationwide survey enabling you to speak for tens of millions of citizens and assert what their preferences would be?

Let's simply dismiss time tested traditions which have kept Iranian society functioning for several thousands of years in a row, and go seek inspiration in dubious political ideologies introduced few decades ago in the west under the pressure of certain lobby groups. Every policy we conduct must be lifted from the west. The west is powerful, and might makes right.

Once we've followed the injunctions of first and second generation feminism down to the T, let's go on implementing the LGBT agenda and preaching that gender identity is but a subjective construct of our minds. Let's then consider traditional education of children as "discriminatory towards sexual minorities" and expose our offspring to homosexualist propaganda. Because similar to the quoted user, some individuals in and outside the liberal faction will by that time be citing data charts and arguing that "since the most wealthy countries are practicing it, it must be right".

Well no, reasonable people won't see it that way and won't bend to this type of a program.

And when the same children grown up they should follow the same circle.government knows what is best for you !!

Anarchic self-regulation is a dangerous delusion.

In fact the negation of the utility of government conveyed by the above quote, is quite reminiscent of communism as described by Marx. This is why they say, extremes end up meeting. Indeed, the two extremist materialist ideologies of liberalism and communism share a common aversion for governmental authority, albeit based on different conceptual premises.

Even under the assumption that a government's role ought to be restricted to few vital tasks, survival of the nation would certainly form part of these. And, no nation can survive on a 1,74 fertility rate. Nor is the transhumanist agenda pushed by globalist oligarchs acceptable in any shape or form.

You are incapable of fixing other problems don't blame education and women presence in society fix those damn problems.

Don't remember "blaming" anything on education. Rather what I suggested, is that it's not monetization which grants value to education. Knowledge is precious onto itself, it is above market logic.

As for fixing the issues which led to the collapse of Iran's fertility rate, I could set out to enumerate a series of potentially efficient solutions indeed. However, they would be guaranteed to raise hairs with liberals. Adoption of liberalism, especially in its contemporary globalist form, pre-programs a nation to go extinct.

 

[Cancerous Tumor]

Did you conduct a nationwide survey enabling you to speak for tens of millions of citizens and assert what their preferences would be?

Let's simply dismiss time tested traditions which have kept Iranian society functioning for several thousands of years in a row, and go seek inspiration in dubious political ideologies introduced few decades ago in the west under the pressure of certain lobby groups. Every policy we conduct must be lifted from the west. The west is powerful, and might makes right.

Once we've followed the injunctions of first and second generation feminism down to the T, let's go on implementing the LGBT agenda and preaching that gender identity is but a subjective construct of our minds. Let's then consider traditional education of children as "discriminatory towards sexual minorities" and expose our offspring to homosexualist propaganda. Because similar to the quoted user, some individuals in and outside the liberal faction will by that time be citing data charts and arguing that "since the most wealthy countries are practicing it, it must be right".

Well no, reasonable people won't see it that way and won't bend to this type of a program.



Anarchic self-regulation is a dangerous delusion.

In fact the negation of the utility of government conveyed by the above quote, is quite reminiscent of communism as described by Marx. This is why they say, extremes end up meeting. Indeed, the two extremist materialist ideologies of liberalism and communism share a common aversion for governmental authority, albeit based on different conceptual premises.

Even under the assumption that a government's role ought to be restricted to few vital tasks, survival of the nation would certainly form part of these. And, no nation can survive on a 1,74 fertility rate. Nor is the transhumanist agenda pushed by globalist oligarchs acceptable in any shape or form.



Don't remember "blaming" anything on education. Rather what I suggested, is that it's not monetization which grants value to education. Knowledge is precious onto itself, it is above market logic.

As for fixing the issues which led to the collapse of Iran's fertility rate, I could set out to enumerate a series of potentially efficient solutions indeed. However, they would be guaranteed to raise hairs with liberals. Adoption of liberalism, especially in its contemporary globalist form, pre-programs a nation to go extinct.

Your claim : It's scheme of wealthy (capitalist) countries.

Data :
First group of very countries with very high (60-80) female participation are Rwanda, Tanzania, Zimbabwe ,Burundi and ...

Mostly African countries
10-50 Million population
~1000-5000 $ GPD per capita

Second group contains countries like Nepal, North Korea, Laos and ...

Mostly Asian countries
7-30 million population
~1000-3000 $ GDP per capita

Next group

Mostly African countries until we reach to ~ 60 female participation (with few Asian ones)
This group contain bigger African countries again with lower income characteristics.


Incorrect claim.

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statement : Let's simply dismiss time tested traditions which have kept Iranian society functioning for several thousands of years in a row.

weakest points in Iran and Iranians history are belong to era of interference of central government/authority in local customs and traditions of people.(with very few expectations )

Incorrect statement when you say it with mindset of defending boosting fertility rate in said manner.

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If you and/or families send 10 of millions of girls and women to learn all sorts of knowledge then you and/or government sending 4 out of 5 (20 and your best case scenario) or 6 out of 7 of them (your initial ideal, 14) of them back to their homes with excuse of boosting birthrates you are commiting a crime against reason.

 

[SalarHaqq]

Data :
First group of very countries with very high (60-80) female participation are Rwanda, Tanzania, Zimbabwe ,Burundi and ...

Mostly African countries
10-50 Million population
~1000-5000 $ GPD per capita

Second group contains countries like Nepal, North Korea, Laos and ...

Mostly Asian countries
7-30 million population
~1000-3000 $ GDP per capita

Next group

Mostly African countries until we reach to ~ 60 female participation (with few Asian ones)
This group contain bigger African countries again with lower income characteristics.


Incorrect claim.

Western cultural imperialism affects the entire planet.

Income was not the question.

weakest points in Iran and Iranians history are belong to era of interference of central government/authority in local customs and traditions of people.(with very few expectations )

Iranian customs and tradition have encompassed nuclear family and have generated fertility rates equal or superior to generational replacement threshold for several milennia. They were supported and protected by the central government throughout history. Tradition is produced and upheld by an interaction between government and society, not by society alone.

Also society does not exist without government. In the absence of government, humans organize in communities not in societies, and their form of organization is then called communism.

It was government intervention in the 1990's and 2000's which contributed to the dramatic decrease in births, namely inadequate policies implemented by liberal administrations. That's actually the instance where government went against deeply rooted social traditions.

Incorrect statement when you say it with mindset of defending boosting fertility rate in said manner.

Government action is indispensable to redress the fertility rate.

If you and/or families send 10 of millions of girls and women to learn all sorts of knowledge then you and/or government sending 4 out of 5 (20 and your best case scenario) or 6 out of 7 of them (your initial ideal, 14)

I did not define 14% as the strict optimum, but stated it was preferable over Belgium's approximately 50%.

of them back to their homes with excuse of boosting birthrates you are commiting a crime against reason.

As said knowledge does not start getting valuable only with monetization, knowledge and science are highly precious in and onto themselves as long as they do not violate the rules of Islam. Education supports personal development and usually helps elevate an individual's cognitive and spiritual abilities. Something that is desirable per se.

Correspondingly, higher education should not merely be viewed as a tool for integration into the labor market. Its benefit to individuals and to society goes way beyond that. The venal price attributed to things on the capitalist market is not the arbiter of their true value.

Keeping female labor at reasonable levels will not be sufficient to boost birth rates. Failure to do so however would compound the pressing demographic crisis and make it even harder to solve than it already is.

 

[Hack-Hook]

It was government intervention in the 1990's and 2000's which contributed to the dramatic decrease in births, due to inadequate policies implemented by liberal administrations. That's actually the instance where government went against deeply rooted social traditions.

and economy had nothing to say about that

 

[MyNameAintJeff]

I strongly suggest that those who think that increasing birthrates is an evil conspiracy by the akhoonds to watch this video

unless you think that these guys are also IRGC agents

 

[aryobarzan]

one of Iran's private companies is becoming Middle east's largest home appliance producer..Inexpensive energy and skilled labour force making Iranian products very export competitive.

Pakshoma to Become Middle East's Largest Home Appliance Company​

Pakshoma to Become Middle East's Largest Home Appliance Company
.....
Pakshoma is planning to become “the largest group of home appliances in the Middle East in terms of exportation to European countries” by 2023.
The CEO of Pakshoma Industrial Group, Mahmoud Ebrahimi, made the statement during a meeting with business partners and official sales representatives, “Once the construction of phase 3 and phase 4 of the development plan is finished, the total area of our production infrastructure will increase to 400,000 square meters…This will make Pakshoma Group the largest home appliances factory in the Middle East”.
Following the growth in the company's output in 2021, Pakshoma Group currently enjoys the highest market share in the segment of dishwashers and washing machines, he said.
He also stated that by purchasing advanced testing and laboratory equipment, the company intends to make Pakshoma Group's laboratory a partner of Iran Standard Organization (Accredit) in a variety of home appliance products (washing machine, dishwasher, vacuum cleaner, refrigerator, freezer, and air conditioner).
He also noted that the production and testing equipment of the refrigerator-freezers of this group has been provided in cooperation with the Italian companies “COMI”, “ABB” from Switzerland, and robotic equipment supplied from KUKA in Germany.
It worth mentioning that Pakshoma was among Iran's top exporters in 2020, he said adding that the company intends to start exporting goods to 15 European, African and Asian countries by 2023.
Pakshoma Group currently has the most diverse portfolio of home appliance brands in Iran. It also offers various home appliance products made by European, Asian, and Iranian brands in the market. At the same time, it is working to start business partnerships with more international brands.
Pakshoma Group is also planning to unveil the largest factory for the production of air conditioners in Iran with a capacity of 300,000 units per year, in upcoming months.

 

[Cancerous Tumor]

I strongly suggest that those who think that increasing birthrates is an evil conspiracy by the akhoonds to watch this video

unless you think that these guys are also IRGC agents

I saw most of it (60% or so) then VPN got disconnected common things in Iran.

The data expert in your video said 2 interesting things:

1.There is a big difference between 1.8 and 1.9 fertility rate.then he went on to explaining it
2.He is against forcing women to do the things that they are not ready for them.


I don't know if you have been following the subject or not but let me summarize the parts which are related to fertility rate :

There are always dumb ways to do things and smart ways to do, if you are choosing dumb ways and act on it, it may indicate many possible external motives other than said objective.

Iran's fertility rate is at 2.1. (2021 data if I'm not mistaken)

 

[SalarHaqq]

Iran's fertility rate is at 2.1. (2021 data if I'm not mistaken)

Iran's fertility rate stands at 1,74 according to the Statistical Center of Iran (1400 / 2021-2022 data).

It has been stagnating at similar levels for multiple years now, again according to the SCI. The Supreme Leader in person repeatedly rang the alarm bell as to the demographic decline affecting Iran.

Source:

Academic research paper on the subject:

https://www.amar.org.ir/Portals/0/News/1400/fertility.fathi2.pdf?ver=X8aZNaJfWMzTbSe7mlVRTw%3d%3d

There is not a single contemporary example of a country managing to sustainably reverse sub-replacement level fertility rates after a certain time span, excluding mass immigration. Not a single one (some like Sweden in the 1980's managed to improve fertility for a few years in a row, but seldom did it reach the replacement threshold and these experiences were systematically followed by renewed slump).

South Korea spent no less than 200 billion USD trying but failed nonetheless.

Sources:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/03/...lowest-fertility-rate-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/19/1163341684/south-korea-fertility-rate

Can China Reverse Its Population Decline? Just Ask Sweden.

Wealthy countries have been trying to boost their birthrates for decades. The results have been pretty similar.

www.nytimes.com

So once this particular calamity sets in, there is no easy way out no matter how smart decision makers are. Nobody in the world has discovered a fool-proof formula as of yet.

When the situation is demonstrably dire (as opposed to dossiers subject to interpretation), denial or efforts by liberal politicians to obstruct natalist measures would tend to be indicative of ulterior motives.

@MyNameAintJeff

 

[aryobarzan]

Iran's fertility rate stands at 1,74 according to the Statistical Center of Iran (1400 / 2021-2022 data).

It has been stagnating at similar levels for multiple years now, again according to the SCI. The Supreme Leader in person repeatedly rang the alarm bell as to the demographic decline affecting Iran.

Source:

View attachment 926814

Academic research paper on the subject:

https://www.amar.org.ir/Portals/0/News/1400/fertility.fathi2.pdf?ver=X8aZNaJfWMzTbSe7mlVRTw%3d%3d

There is not a single contemporary example of a country managing to sustainably reverse sub-replacement level fertility rates after a certain time span, excluding mass immigration. Not a single one (some like Sweden in the 1980's managed to improve fertility for a few years in a row, but seldom did it reach the replacement threshold and these experiences were systematically followed by renewed slump).

South Korea spent no less than 200 billion USD trying but failed nonetheless.

Sources:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/03/...lowest-fertility-rate-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/19/1163341684/south-korea-fertility-rate

Can China Reverse Its Population Decline? Just Ask Sweden.

Wealthy countries have been trying to boost their birthrates for decades. The results have been pretty similar.

www.nytimes.com

So once this particular calamity sets in, there is no easy way out no matter how smart decision makers are. Nobody in the world has discovered a fool-proof formula as of yet.

When the situation is dire, denial or downplaying can be indicative of ulterior motives.

@MyNameAintJeff

1.74 birth rate is very low for Iran.. ..Iran has a chance to reverse this without immigration..it is called "fatwa"..unique to Iran...SL can issue a "fatwa" to all the Iranian followers to hit the bedrooms and start producing babies..

Yes this is unique to Iran because Iran is a theocracy which is also unique..so why not use that power..If devote Iranians are willing to go to war for a fatwa they sure will go to bedrooms for such an order..

 

[Hack-Hook]

1.74 birth rate is very low for Iran.. ..Iran has a chance to reverse this without immigration..it is called "fatwa"..unique to Iran...SL can issue a "fatwa" to all the Iranian followers to hit the bedrooms and start producing babies..

Yes this is unique to Iran because Iran is a theocracy which is also unique..so why not use that power..If devote Iranians are willing to go to war for a fatwa they sure will go to bedrooms for such an order..

he also better make a fatwa on how they pay for food , education , clothes and housing for them.
also while he is at it , it'd be nice if he can solve job problems with another Fatwa

 

[SalarHaqq]

he also better make a fatwa on how they pay for food , education , clothes and housing for them.
also while he is at it , it'd be nice if he can solve job problems with another Fatwa

There poorer a country the higher its fertility rate most of the time. I could cite from the top of my head multiple nations with lower living standards and lower average purchasing power but significantly higher fertility rates compared to Iran.

Also there's a reason government exists, and intervening to rescue the nation and its civilization from extinction, including through extensive welfare programs designed to support families with children, is part and parcel of its fundamental regalian duties.

---

1.74 birth rate is very low for Iran.. ..Iran has a chance to reverse this without immigration..

It's a catastrophe, and to be perfectly honest if the window has not closed already it will very soon. Refer to the New York Times article in my previous comment which highlights the systematic failure of governments, no matter how wealthy, no matter in what geographical area, no matter how competent, to redress sustained demographic slump after a while. The very first success story is yet to take shape.

We should never lose sight of the administrations that practiced extreme anti-natalist policies at a time when the opposite would have been required because Iran was undergoing deep social-economic and social-cultural transformations linked to her staggering development, which would've mechanically exerted strong downward pressure on fertility anyway.

What governments during the 1990's and 2000's would've had to do, is to compensate for the "natural" drop in fertility when it was still much more feasible i.e. before fertility had dropped below replacement threshold. Instead, they doubled down on the trend by practicing unwarranted, extreme birth control measures.

The identity of these administrations is known. And so are their ideological leanings. They were respectively led by Hashemi and Khatami, and they followed a liberal agenda of re-formatting Iran according to the injunctions of the western-based globalist oligarchy as well as associated NATO regimes. Never forget who added fuel to the demographic fire and why. Voting for these parties at elections is to assist them, knowingly or not, in their efforts to uproot Iran.

it is called "fatwa"..unique to Iran...SL can issue a "fatwa" to all the Iranian followers to hit the bedrooms and start producing babies..

Yes this is unique to Iran because Iran is a theocracy which is also unique..so why not use that power..If devote Iranians are willing to go to war for a fatwa they sure will go to bedrooms for such an order..

It's also the case that no top official has raised awareness nor called for corrective action to the extent that the Supreme Leader has. There's only so much the Leader can do on the political front though.

This is different from the kind of issues that could be fixed through one simple law, regulation or order; e.g. the Leader's intervention to forbid the liberal Rohani administration from contracting IMF loans, a plan which would have precipitated Iran into a pernicious debt trap and into dependence upon international institutions dominated by western and zionist imperialists.

That was the sort of challenge one resolute word from the Leader could and did solve instantly. The demographic crisis however is far more complex to tackle. It requires comprehensive, multi-pronged long term policies with considerable budgetary allocations and astute management. Which extends beyond the scope of the Leader's institutional role.

On the religious front fatwas by various maraje' could be an incentive. Remains to be seen how much of an impact they'd have beyond the government's political action.

 

[aryobarzan]

It's a catastrophe, and to be perfectly honest if the window hasn't closed already it will very soon. Refer to the New York Times article in my previous post that shows the systematic failure of governments, no matter how wealthy, no matter in what geographical area, no matter how competent, to redress sustained demographic slump after a while.

We should never lose sight of the administrations that practiced extreme anti-natalist policies at a time when the exact opposite would have been required because Iran was undergoing social-economic and social-cultural transformations which would've mechanically exerted strong downward pressure on fertility either way.

So what governments in the 1990's and 2000's would've had to do, is to compensate for the "natural" drop in fertility when it was still much more feasible i.e. before fertility had dropped below replacement threshold. Instead, they doubled down on the trend by practicing unwarranted, extreme birth control measures.

The identity of these administrations is known. And so are their ideological leanings. They were respectively led by Hashemi and Khatami, and they followed a liberal agenda of re-formatting Iran according to the injunctions of the western-based globalist oligarchy as well as associated NATO regimes.



It's also the case that no top official raised awareness and called for corrective action to the extent that the Supreme Leader. On the political front, there's only so much the Leader can do though.

This is dissimilar from the kind of issues which could be fixed through one simple law or regulation e.g. the Leader's intervention to forbid the liberal Rohani administration from contracting loans from the IMF, which would have precipitated Iran into a pernicious debt trap and into dependence on international institutions dominated by western and zionist imperialists.

That was the sort of challenge one resolute word from the Leader could solve. The demographic crisis however is a far more complex one to tackle. It requires comprehensive, multi-pronged long term policies with considerable budgetary allocations. Which extends beyond the scope of the Leader's .

On the religious front fatwas by various maraje' could be an idea. Remains to be seen how much of an impact it would have in addition to political action by the government.

I agree the issue is urgent...No need to point finger at incompetence of previous Governments..We know that

Action is needed now..no time for committees , Study groups or Impact analysis reports ..etc..

NEED ACTION NOW
​

Fastest route is that "fatwa"..this is a soultion that many of those Western countries (including Canada) do not have...If you have contacts with "Official Iran"..why not propose to them..As an expat Iranian I shiver to think that in a decade or so Iran will be at the merci of Immigration to maintain standard of living.As they say in this part of the world Just :

PUT MORE MEN ON THE JOB​

 

[SalarHaqq]

I agree the issue is urgent...No need to point finger at incompetence of previous Governments..We know that

Liberals returning into office to continue implementing their anti-national, globalist agenda after all the damage they caused would be a chilling eventuality to me. Hence why raising awareness seems important, so Iranians know who they're voting for.

Action is needed now..no time for committees , Study groups or Impact analysis reports ..etc..

NEED ACTION NOW
​

Fastest route is that "fatwa"..this is a soultion that many of those Western countries (including Canada) do not have...If you have contacts with "Official Iran"..why not propose to them..As an expat Iranian I shiver to think that in a decade or so Iran will be at the merci of Immigration to maintain standard of living.As they say in this part of the world Just :

PUT MORE MEN ON THE JOB​

Personally I've no contacts to officials. Maraje' have their own websites where one can ask questions.

 

[Hack-Hook]

There poorer a country the higher its fertility rate most of the time. I could cite from the top of my head multiple nations with lower living standards and lower average purchasing power but significantly higher fertility rates compared to Iran.

if the people are ignorant , yes if they are educated , no

Also there's a reason government exists, and intervening to rescue the nation and its civilization from extinction, including through extensive welfare programs designed to support families with children, is part and parcel of its fundamental regalian duties.

nonsense about extinction , as long as there is positive population growth there is no such thing , corruption , social injustice and poverty are far more dangerous for the existence of the country.
also don't forget that someone said if poverty enter from door the faith go out of the windows

 

[Hack-Hook]

I agree the issue is urgent...No need to point finger at incompetence of previous Governments..We know that

Action is needed now..no time for committees , Study groups or Impact analysis reports ..etc..

NEED ACTION NOW
​

Fastest route is that "fatwa"..this is a soultion that many of those Western countries (including Canada) do not have...If you have contacts with "Official Iran"..why not propose to them..As an expat Iranian I shiver to think that in a decade or so Iran will be at the merci of Immigration to maintain standard of living.As they say in this part of the world Just :

PUT MORE MEN ON THE JOB​

the population is growing , if you fear about jobs and workforce then don't retire people at the age of 45
its nonsense to talk about higher growth rate without solving , education , food security , job and ....problems

we already have problem providing water for our population and you guys calling fr more people
we already have problem providing enough job for people and you ask to increase the population faster than this.
our constitution state that education till the end of high school must be free for all , do you knew how many people have access to that free education.
also you forget one thing , where you want to put these people ? in Teharan , Tabriz , Mashhad, Shiraz or Isfahan . you think the people who born and raised in those cities will go to sarab for example.
I have been in the small cities and the situation there is ...., there is no jobs there , the services are non existence.


wonder why always people from europe and north america must come and talk about raising the population in Iran . why you guys won't come back and help raise the population,.... in small cities and villages