Information Pool & Analysis on Pakistan's AF Aspiration for Su-35 / Su-35S - FLANKER-E

[WaLeEdK2]

If you know the price then why you were negotiating for many months with US.You can decide to cancel at the beginning if cost not suits you.US already told many times that they are not interested to sell f16 by tax payers money.They don't make such statement if you already decided to buy the jets at market price.

Negotiations are meant to seek a compromise. Once they backed out of the deal we decided to back out as well. The cost did not suit us but they agreed to pay for some of it until they backed out.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

It is not silly to compare f16 with su35.Here is the link what happened to the deal and the US already told that you can get f16 only on market price and not subsidised rate.Your own ministers expressed dissapointment on decision and told that you will go other source if the deal not materialize(If not get f16 on subsidised rate).At least for face saving, you have to get the jets on market price, but your govt does not have the money, it is as simple as that....

Listen, do you understand how state to state relations work? Yanks "proposed" to us, its not us but them who initiate this F16 deal. We said, ok, thats fine, as we deem that it will serve our interests. Later American backtracked on their own proposal and commitment. What this got to do with Pakistan? We simply said no, We are not interested. Money wasnt the issue, its the geopolitics at play.

Do you think PAF air cheif and joint staff was in Moscow recently learning how to play game of chess?

It maybe SU35 or some other platform with similar long enduring capability for sea patrols we are seeking, its our strategic need and F16 for this role simply not suitable. Hence I said its silly to link F16 with Su35.

 

[hussain0216]

It is not silly to compare f16 with su35.Here is the link what happened to the deal and the US already told that you can get f16 only on market price and not subsidised rate.Your own ministers expressed dissapointment on decision and told that you will go other source if the deal not materialize(If not get f16 on subsidised rate).At least for face saving, you have to get the jets on market price, but your govt does not have the money, it is as simple as that....

We are buying 8 subs for 5 billion and getting others upgraded

The F 16s were offered at subsidised rates by U.S government, they went back on their deal so why should we pay full price for jets when its the yanks who have gone back on their word

 

[Shakuni & Ravan]

Negotiations are meant to seek a compromise. Once they backed out of the deal we decided to back out as well. The cost did not suit us but they agreed to pay for some of it until they backed out.

But pakistan can make face saving and tell to the world that they have money and ready to pay f16 at market price.Why that does not happened ! At the end neither you got f16 nor able to prove that you can afford f16 at market price.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

But pakistan can make face saving and tell to the world that they have money and ready to pay f16 at market price.Why that does not happened ! At the end neither you got f16 nor able to prove that you can afford f16 at market price.

Let me make this clear. The US offered to subsidise the f-16 and at the end backed out. Why should we buy them? They themselves offered it. If we decided to but them it shows the world we have no other option for a decent fighter jet but the f-16 for our fleet. It has nothing to do with money. It is geopolitics. We have already seen big defence deals signed with China so your theory of no money is not credible.

 

[Shakuni & Ravan]

Let me make this clear. The US offered to subsidise the f-16 and at the end backed out. Why should we buy them? They themselves offered it. That shows the world we have no other option for a decent fighter jet but the f-16 for our fleet. It has nothing to do with money. It is geopolitics. We have already seen big defence deals signed with China so your theory of no money is not credible.

Come on yaar, you want to say that US offered pakistan when pakistan was not any mood to buy fighter jets and later US backed out ! If you are rejecting or not interested the US offer, then why you are complaining?

Look what your foreign secretary telling the episode.

'If funding is not arranged, then pakistan will look for planes from some where else--Words from Pak sec.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

Come on yaar, you want to say that US offered pakistan when pakistan was not any mood to buy fighter jets and later US backed out ! If you are rejecting or not interested the US offer, then why you are complaining?

Look what you foreign secretary telling the episode.

'If funding is not arranged, then pakistan will look for planes from some where else--Words from Pak sec.

Who said PAF was not interested in obtaining subsidised f-16s? We were interested UNITL they backed out. It's not that hard to understand really. Your theory of no money isn't credible

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/pakistan-orders-nine-more-bell-ah-1z-gunships-423882/

And these cost more than f-16s lol.

 

[Shakuni & Ravan]

Who said PAF was not interested in obtaining subsidised f-16s? We were interested UNITL they backed out. It's not that hard to understand really. Your theory of no money isn't credible

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/pakistan-orders-nine-more-bell-ah-1z-gunships-423882/

And these cost more than f-16s lol.

If US backed out, then why pakistan secretary telling that 'If funding not arranged, then pakistan......'.

Means you decide to back out first 'IF NO FUND', and not other way around.Now you can't claim that they didn't offer market price, since you have that option and if you are ready to give market price, then they are suppose to supply and can't back out as of commitment.

 

[jupiter2007]

Why would China sell Russian weapons and hamper their own industry?

So even if we consider Chinese are the middle men, which middle men in the world locks a deal for free?

So 100 Million dollars per aircraft + 5 Million dollars (chinese comission) = 105 Million Dollars

Are you guys stupid or insane?

Very are both thats why we are trusting Chinese to provide us with Russian technology for last 50 years.

 

[freeskylord]

Very are both thats why we are trusting Chinese to provide us with Russian technology for last 50 years.

Chinese themselves are trying to master the trubine technology.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

If US backed out, then why pakistan secretary telling that 'If funding not arranged, then pakistan......'.

Means you decide to back out first 'IF NO FUND', and not other way around.Now you can't claim that they didn't offer market price, since you have that option and if you are ready to give market price, then they are suppose to supply and can't back out as of commitment.

We didn't decide to back out first. saying IF means that you are implying something might happen in the future. They backed out of the subsidies deal then We backed out completely when they did not commit to their deal. And like I said before it was decided that it wasn't worth it to buy them without subsidies. It would be foolish to get 8 f-16s after they did not commit. Backing out of one deal doesn't mean we don't have money lol.

 

[janu.bravo]

I think Su35s will be very difficult to maintain compared to F-16s. I find this deal unrealistic and maintenance nightmare for Pakistan. Also Pakistan has not got enormous amount to keep a large fleet. I think the best bet is to purchase some used F-16s from international market. Meanwhile strenghening JF-17 program. I see no other realistic option. May be later on (5-8 years time period), we may have J-31 in some shape.

Take it as vice-versa... Pakistan got some edge in Maintenance via China. I am sure if pakistan will buy fleet of su thn at time of war or we can easily get some spares from China.

 

[jupiter2007]

Chinese themselves are trying to master the trubine technology.

No one is perfect, It took India 30 years to build Tejas.
It might take China another 5 years to make a decent engine.

 

[Shakuni & Ravan]

We didn't decide to back out first. saying IF means that you are implying something might happen in the future. They backed out of the subsidies deal then We backed out completely when they did not commit to their deal. And like I said before it was decided that it wasn't worth it to buy them without subsidies. It would be foolish to get 8 f-16s after they did not commit. Backing out of one deal doesn't mean we don't have money lol.

Means you people expect that US will sell 8 f16 planes for 270 million dollar, means 1 f16 fighter cost just 33.75 million dollar, come on man this is not a toy to get that amount neither may not cover its production cost.So if you are desperate to get these planes and have money then why you don't negotiate them for at least 50 million dollar/pc and not telling that we will back out if no subsidy.

So you expect to get an f16 on 33.75 million dollar/pc with some other country and which country and what model and fighter jet you expect to get with this amount,since you secretary already told that they will buy from some one else..

 

[Shakuni & Ravan]

By the way if you have money and want f16 then why you are asking for subsidy, is it rocket science to understand !