Indians-RAW laughing all the way to the bank

[Ajaxpaul]

There is no enough proof of what OP claims. Whether or not RAW was responsible. Pak has to set its house in order.

 

[Developereo]

Several points:

- Most of Pakistan's internal problems started AFTER the American invasion in 2001. Where was the mighty chessmaster RAW until then?

- Islamists are the favorite bogeyman du jour, but they don't make foreign policy in Pakistan. In fact, other than annoying marches are fiery speeches, they are irrelevant. Pakistan's policy failures are due to the incompetent, and treasonous, feudal politicians (as well as some military types).

- It is true that, since 2001 and under American tutelage, RAW has exploited the opportunities for mischief. Once again, it is more due to Pakistani incompetence than any brilliance on RAW's part. For example, how much brainpower does it take for Pakistani politicians to make Iran aware of the dangers from any Baluch separatism? That will put the kibosh on the India-Iran friendship, as the Iranians start to question India's shenanigans in Chahbahar.

 

[OrionHunter]

This thread started out well & the debate was pretty interesting....till it became a troll fest.

So what's new? This is no site for intelligent discussion. Flaming and blaming get's you the brownie points that so many here on PDF are desperate for!

There's a competition as to who posts the most vile bile. This way they are seen as heroes - or so they think! If you want intelligent discussion then go look for some other website.

Have fun!

 

[ice_man]

So what's new? This is no site for intelligent discussion. Flaming and blaming get's you the brownie points that so many here on PDF are desperate for!

There's a competition as to who posts the most vile bile. This way they are seen as heroes - or so they think! If you want intelligent discussion then go look for some other website.

Have fun!

such as Bha*at Raksh*k???

 

[45'22']

such as Bha*at Raksh*k???

yeah,Bharat Rakshak and Jane's Defence Weekly

 

[livingdead]

I would prefer RAW doing dirty work in pakistan than fighting a nuclear war with them.
If you see views of pakistan about terrorism, it has changed a lot since 911 and when they started to be the victim.
I am in no way claiming RAW's hand in all terrorism there, but I would like to believe that some separatist groups like BLA have links with RAW.
10k-15k human life(pakistani) per year is not a bad price to pay for 200 million people to realize jihad leads them to destruction.
I dont rejoice the death of individuals, each death is a tragedy.

 

[Amolthebest]

I think many of us are underestimating role of Indian media. India media had played pivotal role in Kargil war and after 9/11 attacks.Surprisingly Indian government too plays propoganda card very well in the pakistan case.

 

[45'22']

i dont support ur claim,i dont think RAW in anyway is connected to BLA
what i personnally feel is the so called links of RAW with BLA is created by Pak's people becoz Indian's feel ISI as a terrorist organization
a tit for tat like situaution and it could be expected of Pak bcoz it will try to keep its image clean
and regarding th 10000-15000 lifes u talked about
i believe each innocent life is precious and it cant be wasted for the so called realization of jihad

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Really guys I am frustrated with pakistanis !!
In some thread pakistanis claim RAW is waste !! In some other threads u guys claim RAW is super duper, it does things like this, like that
We Indians themselves dont hear much about RAW.. Many members came to know about it in this forum only..
And we indians are confused , whether RAW is really worth or not !!
Pakistanis, for once, create a new thread, to decide whether RAW is really good agency or not(indians shouldnt participate in that ), and say us according to results in polls and comments received !!
Pakistanis help us in clearing the Indian dilemma over RAW !!

 

[kumarkumar1867]

What RAW has done is to make our strength into our weakness by turning some (or perhaps many) of our guns from India towards America. RAW knows we can amply defend ourselves against an enemy (aka India) that is 10 times bigger than us, but we certainly face utter destruction against our newly perceived enemy that is 1000 times stronger militarily (aka America). Isn’t this the work of a genius or perhaps our own utter stupidity or may be a combination of both.

Genius, RAW is not that good , You are giving it much more Credit than it really deserves.

Zia had a different vision while taking some game changing decisions but later his same regime & its effects are haunting Current Pakistan.
After loss of Zia's vision ,Plight of Pakistan was like a Ship without a Captain. Your leaders shot themselves in their own foot again & again .
More credit is to be given to Musharraf's Acts of Opression in Baluchistan, ISI's & PA's intel support to Jihadis, Participation in WOT underestimating potential of muslim radicals & Crap policies by your short-term benefit monger & corrupt politicians all can be summed up in bolded part in your post.

Peace.

 

[clmeta]

And what exactly are your country fellows gloating about in Baluchistan aka BLA.
Besides, learn to distinguish between a freedom struggle and terrorism.

So what was liberation of Bangladesh? Freedom struggle or terrorism?
The definition actually depends on which country you belong. If the territory is in your country, then its terrorism if the territory is in the neighbor's country, then its freedom struggle.

By the way, I don't think RAW is an effective agency. Their only achievement so far has been the dismemberment of Pakistan. They should learn from Mossad.

 

[Sashan]

RAW is like Bill Murray from the movie "The man who knew too little". People here tend to give them more credit. Since 1990s when the various prime ministers, most notably I.K.Gujral started interfering with RAW, their effectiveness is gone.

 

[DGMO]

In my estimation, I think that RAW is given too much importance and credence to any successes that the GoI has had vis-a-vis Pakistan's troubles over the past 10 years.

I've always said that the GoI has played a blinder on the diplomatic front, and dealt its cards incredibly well. That for some is overlooked. Sound bites transcend global politics, and magnify certain situations or the profile of countries. We saw the impact of sounds bites such as "mad dog" (Reagan on Ghadaffi), "axis of evil" (Bush on NK, Iran and Iraq) etc. These lend governments around the world, and people to understand those countries in a certain (negative) light.

The blinder that GoI played was using the word "cross-border terrorism" (CBT) to define Pakistan's activities in Kashmir, and then allowing this phrase to be applied to Afghanistan.

In the aftermath of 9/11, with no takers in the world for the "Kashmiri freedom fight", India rammed home CBT over and over again, in ever single fora, every single meeting, with every single Western dignitary who visited Delhi until the point was made clear.

In addition to that, the restraint India has shown despite incidents like the attack on Parliament in 2001, or 26/11 has given them a lot of credit in foreign capitals.

They've contributed to Afghanistan in a positive fashion from what the Afghan's say, as well as their govt, despite us failing to grasp or acknowledge that. The real problem has been the fractured nature of our politics and decision making since 2008.

I have no complaints under the Musharraf era, as I can see progress towards peace was being made. Even pre 9/11, Musharraf was clamping down on jihadi collection boxes at mosques, and did a lot to cool tensions as well as introduce a mutually agreeable solution to Kashmir.

However, the internal dysfunctional nature of our corrupt politicians, the lack of domestic and foreign policy foresight is just a reflection of how bad we are with governance, and making progress on even the smaller things.

All the while that India advances. In education, in health, economic, defence, with the US, in relations with China ($75 billion annual trade vs. Pakistan's $11 billion), we are left behind in all spheres.

RAW has been better perhaps on the chess board, it hasn't needed to do a great deal because we've imploded and handed the mess we're in on a plate to India.

However, India has upped the propaganda machine to malign us (and quite rightly so), and used terms like CBT to leave us flat-footed, weak, isolated and desperate.

I can't blame India, if the shoe was on the other foot, we'd do exactly the same. But my God, we've made it terribly easy for them.

 

[JonAsad]

yeah,Bharat Rakshak and Jane's Defence Weekly

you must be a devote member of bharat ratsh!t forum to have the audacity to bring it with Janes defence weekly in the same line-

 

[T-Faz]

Oh.. No! That's the foundation! If you remove the foundation.. whole building will collapse then!!

Not really, the founding father of Pakistan had an entirely different idea of the kind of relationship the two countries would have.

“Whatever others might say, I think that these two states of Pakistan and Hindustan, by virtue of contiguity and mutual interests will be friends in this subcontinent… They will go to each other’s rescue in case of danger and will be able to say ‘hands off’ to other nations. We shall then have a Monroe Doctrine more solid than in America…”. Adding thereafter: “Pakistan and Hindustan alone will mean freedom to both Hindus and Muslims”.

It was the primarily the rich Mohajirs of Pakistan who lost much when they migrated from India and always felt a sense of animosity towards it for their loss.

You people have been brought up with this mentality that Pakistan was created in opposition to India and it may be true now but it wasn't the case.