Indian Navy News & Discussions

[The A-5]

AIP systems increase the maximum submerged period allowable on conventional submarines, but while doing so, they're
speeds are within 5 to 8 knots at most (for a submersion period of 18 days). With this speed, no sub is going to catch up with any frigate or destroyer capable of dash speeds exceeding 30 knots.

Only a nuclear attack submarine has the ability to travel at speeds of 20 to 30 knots while keeping submerged for over three months ( 90 days ), therefore they are the true killers.

An AIP-equipped sub is only good for coastal protection, but with enemy warships having missiles of ~300km range, they
can only try their worst to get to the launch ship's location whilst staying out of sight of prowling ASW assets, but guess what, the ship would rather just fire the missiles, and dash away at 25-30 knots. Whoosh! The AIP sub would be eating dust while
dragging itself along at a meek 8 knots maximum.

The alternative is to rely on conventional methods (coming up to breathe) for high speeds of atleast 20-25 knots, but while doing this, no sub is safe from modern ASW assets, as I said, we already have Neptune/Poseidon which is the deadliest airborne sub-hunter in the world at present...and soon would be adding P-28 ASW corvettes as well. Expecting some member to show a link of chinese wonder submarine popping up around US warship fleet...oh my god subs are invincible lol !!!

Brother,

Raad is cruise Missile, and cruise Missile because of its very low attitude of flying, and very slow in speed, its very easy to hit the moving Target.

Danish

Show me where it is hitting a moving target.

 

[Dillinger]

Not the price wise. Look at the Armament and sensors then compare it with Kolkata. But as @Dillinger said..its gonna be a problem

The armament and the sensors is not the issue. In terms of AShM profile the Kolkata is actually superior due to the sustained supersonic sea skimmer BrahMos AShM (8*2).

As far as sensors go, the MF-STAR on the Kolkata is also a 4D, active phased array long range sensor much like the sensor fitment in the CAFRAD package.

Where the TF2000 shines is in the AAW package since it can reportedly carry a mix of BOTH SM-2 and SM-3. This last part is what is important and elevates TF2000 to a class ship.

 

[The A-5]

The armament and the sensors is not the issue. In terms of AShM profile the Kolkata is actually superior due to the sustained supersonic sea skimmer BrahMos AShM (8*2).

As far as sensors go, the MF-STAR on the Kolkata is also a 4D, active phased array long range sensor much like the sensor fitment in the CAFRAD package.

Where the TF2000 shines is in the AAW package since it can reportedly carry a mix of BOTH SM-2 and SM-3. This last part is what is important and elevates TF2000 to a class ship.

How much control does the US exercise on these weapons like SM-series? A LOT. Is someone proposing to sell these
ships to PN?

 

[Dillinger]

How much control does the US exercise on these weapons like SM-series? A LOT. Is someone proposing to sell these
ships to PN?

They cannot be sold to the PN or to any nation which the US does not green-light, the US has absolute control in terms of re-export and has pretty stringent end-user agreements. @Neptune was not talking of selling the SM series of interceptors to the PN, rather the TF2000 ship itself with the indigenous Turkish sensors WITHOUT the SM munitions.

 

[The A-5]

They cannot be sold to the PN or to any nation which the US does not green-light, the US has absolute control in terms of re-export and has pretty stringent end-user agreements. @Neptune was not talking of selling the SM series of interceptors to the PN, rather the TF2000 ship itself with the indigenous Turkish sensors WITHOUT the SM munitions.

What about the ship itself? Where are the engines and all coming from? Probably from US/NATO again, right?
And exactly how much of the ship itself is Turkish?

Just like T-129 helo, it cannot be sold to third parties without OEM authorization.

 

[Dillinger]

What about the ship itself? Where are the engines and all coming from? Probably from US/NATO again, right?
And exactly how much of the ship itself is Turkish?

Just like T-129 helo, it cannot be sold to third parties without OEM authorization.

Depends, the US is more lax with the sale of ships running on say LM marine turbines in contrast to how specific they can be with aerial platforms. Besides, in an export configuration the ship can (cost permitting) utilize a different power plant sourced from another OEM or country. The ship itself is quite potent, no doubt about it, but that is by dint of the complete package. The PN is going to receive three more Olivers if my memory serves right and much like the single Oliver they are operating at the moment the US has stripped said ships of any real AAW potency, this should clearly demonstrate what will happen in the case of the TF2000.

 

[The A-5]

Depends, the US is more lax with the sale of ships running on say LM marine turbines in contrast to how specific they can be aerial platforms. Besides, in an export configuration the ship can (cost permitting) utilize a different power plant sourced from another OEM or country. The ship itself is quite potent, no doubt about it, but that id by dint of the complete package. The PN is going to receive three more Olivers if my memory serves right and much like the single Oliver they are operating at the moment the US has stripped said ships of any real AAW potency, this should clearly demonstrate what will happen in the case of the TF2000.

I thought the 3 OHPs were to be sold only if some conditions were met. Something related to a doctor & OBL raid etc.

 

[elitepilot09]

PN should acquire all 13 Frigates from UK and another 3 from Chile.

God dammit. Get a new friggin hobby Nishan. For gods sake.

 

[Screambowl]

incible lol !!!



Show me where it is hitting a moving target.

they may be low flying very accurate, but at sea, it's different. Their speed is slow may be taken down by simple machine gun fire, they are not designed for moving target, they don't have sea skimming capabilities.

 

[Basel]

It depends what fleet it is.
secondly if we take the scenario of CBG of IN, then any air misadventure by PAF will be countered by Naval Aviation , Migs 29 of AC. The submarines will be countered by submarine in the CBG. The CBG also posses anti submarine warfare frigates and destroyers. 20-30 cruise missile cannot sink the CBG. And Pakistan navy has to empty all its ammunition on just one CBG.

PAF will use ZDK-03 AWACS to track ships & air assets and IN CBG far from its coast will not be in good position to create a long distance effective defense zone, PAF already have 50+ JF-17s + Mirage-V with IFR capability which can be used for quick strike on CBG with super sonic & subsonic AShM remember that ARM version of YJ-12 is also available to PAF they can get it when required and it can hit targets from long distance so there goes your Agies class ships, PN & PAF many time in past have breached USN CBGs defenses undetected in exercise so how IN can think that they can handle PN so easily. PN already have plenty stock of missiles available as they know they will need them in good numbers, and its not necessary to sink a ship or ACC just enough damaging them that they are non operational during war will do the job.

Then it must be easy to conduct another Op Python and Op Trident to set Karachi on fire again.

Not easy as last line of defense of PN will eat your assets will try to come close, PN have potent firepower when it comes to block Op Phthon class ops of IN, I will love to see MRTP-33s hunting with Azmat class boats.

 

[Basel]

The missile frigate coming behind the CBG will take down the port and in the end PN navy will be helpless after heavy saturation fire from IAF and Indian Navy.

No, Port will not be left alone as PN has Azmat Class Missile boats & MRTP-33s with some old boats & Coastal defense batteries supported by medium range MPAs.

PNS Azmat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.
YONCA-ONUK JV

 

[Screambowl]

No, Port will not be left alone as PN has Azmat Class Missile boats & MRTP-33s with some old boats & Coastal defense batteries supported by medium range MPAs.

PNS Azmat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.
YONCA-ONUK JV

when a missile coming from 300kms hits an oil tank , how are you supposed to stop that missile?

 

[Basel]

when a missile coming from 300kms hits an oil tank , how are you supposed to stop that missile?

First your ship have to come close enough to launch your to 300 km missiles, do you think even if IN breach our initial defenses, it will be easy for them to cross our last line of defense as they would have also taking the beating, do you think that our missile boats will allow your ships to come that close that they can launch their 300 km missiles?? MRTP-33s will be one big headache for your ships as it is not easy to lock & engage it, also Azmat having 1000km range with 180 km range AShM which will be supported by MPAs and PN is rapidly building capability to hit ships at 400+ km from coast so dream what you want but not gonna happen.

Also JF-17s with CM-400AKG (Supersonic with 250 km range) can keep your ships more then 400 kms away from our coasts.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

How much control does the US exercise on these weapons like SM-series? A LOT. Is someone proposing to sell these
ships to PN?

There cannot be and will not be any automatic sale of US sourced weaponry viz. SM Missiles. Ditto for US sourced Sensors. Everything needs the "go-by" from Uncle Sam.

 

[Screambowl]

First your ship have to come close enough to launch your to 300 km missiles, do you think even if IN breach our initial defenses, it will be easy for them to cross our last line of defense as they would have also taking the beating, do you think that our missile boats will allow your ships to come that close that they can launch their 300 km missiles?? MRTP-33s will be one big headache for your ships as it is not easy to lock & engage it, also Azmat having 1000km range with 180 km range AShM which will be supported by MPAs and PN is rapidly building capability to hit ships at 400+ km from coast so dream what you want but not gonna happen.

Also JF-17s with CM-400AKG (Supersonic with 250 km range) can keep your ships more then 400 kms away from our coasts.

we will launch brahmos, sitting 700kms away.