Indian Navy News & Discussions

[Basel]

we will launch brahmos, sitting 700kms away.

Now from 300km your brahmos become 700 km missile overnight.

 

[Screambowl]

Now from 300km your brahmos become 700 km missile overnight.

you got confused between nautical miles and kilo meters.

300Nm is 545kms and brahmos has its range over 600kms. Brahmos can take down vessels positioned at 700kms without giving them time to react.

 

[The A-5]

PAF will use ZDK-03 AWACS to track ships & air assets

How many ZDK-03s? One ? Two ? In an actual full-scale war, all tri-services of India & Pakistan will be engaging each other
at one point or the other, in such circumstances, PAF itself will require as many AEW aircraft as available to support the
fighters & ground forces. Remember neither ZDK nor Erieye have IFR ability, which limits their on-station time, while some will be in sky, some will be on ground refueling. All this while staying clear of missile attacks on airbases which could wipe out entire air fleet stationed at that base. While India has some defences against such fire-assaults, Pak has little to none.

Even a single AEW aircraft loss will deal critical damage to PAF, more than in IAF's case.

In such circumstances, how many AEW aircraft, if any at all, can PAF free up to support PN to keep a watch for
enemies out at sea?

and IN CBG far from its coast will not be in good position to create a long distance effective defense zone, PAF already have 50+ JF-17s + Mirage-V with IFR capability which can be used for quick strike on CBG

While ranting on IN, you seem to have forgotten the presence of IAF. Again, dedicating assets for PN to go and
attack ships will thin out PAF fighter fleets - remember, in case of war, regardless of who the initial aggressor is, PAF
aircraft fleet will be limited to flying defensive sorties within Pak airspace within 6 hours into war. And in this
scenario, you will need to have as many active fighters on the flightline as possible at any given time, ready to engage any
intruding target. Otherwise significant sectors of Pak airspace will go under IAF dominance within 24 hours.

with super sonic & subsonic AShM remember that ARM version of YJ-12 is also available to PAF they can get it when required and it can hit targets from long distance

Subsonic sea-skimming missiles...nothing that Barak-VIII with 80g lateral acceleration cannot handle.

High-supersonic high-altitude missiles...nothing that any modern SAM+radar system cannot handle.

so there goes your Agies class ships,

You know, the Russians built missiles as Raduga Kh-15 (Mach 5, 300km range) waaaaaay before anything
as YJ-12 or CM-400AKG appeared even on the drawing board...you know what? It didn't take the Soviets long
to figure out that these missiles had little use even when used in salvo mode against then-US Navy warships/CBGs.

And this was before most of the AEGIS technologies came into being....and Kolk's radars and self-defense SAM
technologies are in the same league as the latest SPY-3 AESA-equipped Aegis DDGs, although not in the same
scale and not in the same sense.

In short, if it doesn't want you to, even getting close to one of these ships is a challenge in itself.

PN & PAF many time in past have breached USN CBGs defenses undetected in exercise

So has IAF clobbered USAF 9-1 in air exercises.

Tell these stories to your children, not your daddies.

so how IN can think that they can handle PN so easily.

I was going to ask the same thing, just interchange the words IN and PN.

In fact you're right. IN is a clueless force who thinks otherwise. The IN is stuck in the delusional belief that it could touch
PN or even dream of laying a finger on Karachi/Gwadar. Even if IN builds 100 of these destroyers, PN will come out
on top because PN is made of gold.

Not easy as last line of defense of PN will eat your assets will try to come close, PN have potent firepower when it comes to block Op Phthon class ops of IN,

And so do IN ships have potent capabilities to thwart enemy submarine ops. My lines were in that sense.

I will love to see MRTP-33s hunting with Azmat class boats.

Hunting pirates, you mean.

Also JF-17s with CM-400AKG (Supersonic with 250 km range) can keep your ships more then 400 kms away from our coasts.

No JF-17 can take off because we can flatten all airbases within 750km of Indian border with Shaurya missiles (Mach 7.5+).

 

[Neptune]

What about the ship itself? Where are the engines and all coming from? Probably from US/NATO again, right?
And exactly how much of the ship itself is Turkish?

Just like T-129 helo, it cannot be sold to third parties without OEM authorization.

The engine only is US..and the design is Italian. The rest from everything is Turkish

The armament and the sensors is not the issue. In terms of AShM profile the Kolkata is actually superior due to the sustained supersonic sea skimmer BrahMos AShM (8*2).

As far as sensors go, the MF-STAR on the Kolkata is also a 4D, active phased array long range sensor much like the sensor fitment in the CAFRAD package.

Where the TF2000 shines is in the AAW package since it can reportedly carry a mix of BOTH SM-2 and SM-3. This last part is what is important and elevates TF2000 to a class ship.

TF2000 will be armed with Gezgin LACM and Atmaca anti-ship missile is also sea skimming subsonic. In fact, considering both ships it'd be teeth to teeth and interesting when compared both ships. CAFRAD outclasses MF-STAR. Not because of better or bad but it'll have centric network to all naval vessels of TNF as well as to all NATO ships. The main differences between CAFRAD and MF-STAR is that it has very longer range and it has Electronic Warfare capabilities both defence and attack.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Then it must be easy to conduct another Op Python and Op Trident to set Karachi on fire again.

You are welcome to try...

 

[Basel]

you got confused between nautical miles and kilo meters.
300Nm is 545kms and brahmos has its range over 600kms. Brahmos can take down vessels positioned at 700kms without giving them time to react.

Current Brahmos cant go beyond 300 km range as it is a joint venture of Russia & India and range is restricted because Russia is member of MTCR so don't spread lies.

BrahMos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.
Missile Technology Control Regime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No JF-17 can take off because we can flatten all airbases within 750km of Indian border with Shaurya missiles (Mach 7.5+).

Not all JF-17 will be using regular run ways and if you bring this missile in war then your military knows that we already have Shaheen-1 with similar range of your Shuryia missile, for this purpose so don't worry we cant hit you back very hard.

 

[Basel]

How many ZDK-03s? One ? Two ? In an actual full-scale war, all tri-services of India & Pakistan will be engaging each other

You people are living in dreams, we have 4 ZDK03 and they have much better endurance then Erieyes, PAF have total 6 AWACS if u less the destroyed one and they have more then what we need in terms of range & endurance, PAF professional air force and they know how they will be face and what they need to counter it.

So has IAF clobbered USAF 9-1 in air exercises.
Tell these stories to your children, not your daddies.

you are the biggest fool here, IAF can't take out PAF period, they can get only get some battlefield dominance and for that PAF is working by getting more F-16s and other assets.

It is not easy even in exercise to fly over a US ACC totally undetected and our Mirages have done it so Mr. Keyboard warrior don't try to troll please.

Hunting pirates, you mean.

Yeah they will be hunting Saffron Pirates in war.

You don't have clue how wars are fought, you are just like all other fanboys who think that PN needs to match every asset of IN to survive in war.

 

[Screambowl]

Current Brahmos cant go beyond 300 km range as it is a joint venture of Russia & India and range is restricted because Russia is member of MTCR so don't spread lies.

BrahMos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.
Missile Technology Control Regime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Not all JF-17 will be using regular run ways and if you bring this missile in war then your military knows that we already have Shaheen-1 with similar range of your Shuryia missile, for this purpose so don't worry we cant hit you back very hard.

dude you are talking like IN will be a sitting duck with an Air craft carrier. An AC has ability to create no fly zone. Only a submarine can take it down after 6-7 hits. Brahmos has range upto 500km declared. Thats is enough. Brahmos will be used against ships and other big installations. And not in a line since its costly too.

we can launch electronic warfare, anti submarine warfare sitting in the middle of Arabian sea, Pakistan cannot do that. We can continuously send Migs on sorties from middle of arabian sea to check PN frigates and PAF and the fuel supply, and give cover to the missile frigates to launch an attack on Karachi port.

Pakistan Navy's retaliation will be minimized to either one og the targets, CBG or Mumbai. PN cannot carry out attacks on both.


Using Shaheen will be dangerous as it may be presumed as nuclear strike and India might launch a N weapon on Pakistan.

 

[Basel]

Using Shaheen will be dangerous as it may be presumed as nuclear strike and India might launch a N weapon on Pakistan.

Your countrymen want to use Shuriya it is also very dangeorous that is why I posted that we have Shaheen-1 in similar capacity, but also there was a version of Shaheen tested which was not a ballistic missile and was built to take our Indian bases and other key installation with rapid speed and accuracy don't know what happened to that, may be PA don't want to show it any more due to some reasons.

dude you are talking like IN will be a sitting duck with an Air craft carrier. An AC has ability to create no fly zone. Only a submarine can take it down after 6-7 hits. Brahmos has range upto 500km declared. Thats is enough. Brahmos will be used against ships and other big installations. And not in a line since its costly too.

PN may want to keep uncertainty on availability of some systems like YJ-12, C-602 (400+ kms range), but it is rumored that PN now have missiles which supersedes Brahmos in range and they have them in numbers, an PN official told me that we don't have to worry about Brahmos because PN will not allow IN to come close enough to be able to launch them and they consider range of brahmos 700+km.

we can launch electronic warfare, anti submarine warfare sitting in the middle of Arabian sea, Pakistan cannot do that. We can continuously send Migs on sorties from middle of arabian sea to check PN frigates and PAF and the fuel supply, and give cover to the missile frigates to launch an attack on Karachi port.

No, you can't because 45 Migs are not enough for that big task.

 

[The A-5]

CAFRAD outclasses MF-STAR. Not because of better or bad but it'll have centric network to all naval vessels of TNF as well as to all NATO ships.

That's not relevant to the topic, MF-STAR radar/EMDINA Combat Management System in IN service will be networked
with India's radar, sub-surface, and space-based assets, networking is a very basic aspect of modern naval warfare and
IN, well on it's way to becoming a true blue water navy, knows this very well and works it very well.

Infact, we recently conducted a massed exercise TROPEX in IOR where 60 warships and 75 aircraft were networked together
under the eye of GSAT-7, IN's own comms satellite (more will be added to the constellation in due course).

TROPEX 2014

Even the Chakra nuclear attack submarine and P-8 Neptune ASW aircraft were networked together (despite such
assets being of contrasting origins - Russian to US-made), in any warfighting scenario, information will be shared
very seamlessly between IN's various platforms.

However, it's not relevant here because PN's surface fleet isn't much to be networked about.

The main differences between CAFRAD and MF-STAR is that it has very longer range and it has Electronic Warfare capabilities both defence and attack.

Range figures will need some quotation...that said, MF-STAR also has great EW/ESM capabilities in both offensive
and defensive sense. This is backed up to the fact Israel has great track record & experience in building
top-of-the-line radars and EW systems.

You are welcome to try...

You are welcome to present your submarines as target practice for P-8I Neptune and P-28 ASW Corvettes.

 

[Neptune]

That's not relevant to the topic, MF-STAR radar/EMDINA Combat Management System in IN service will be networked
with India's radar, sub-surface, and space-based assets, networking is a very basic aspect of modern naval warfare and
IN, well on it's way to becoming a true blue water navy, knows this very well and works it very well.

Infact, we recently conducted a massed exercise TROPEX in IOR where 60 warships and 75 aircraft were networked together
under the eye of GSAT-7, IN's own comms satellite (more will be added to the constellation in due course).

TROPEX 2014

Even the Chakra nuclear attack submarine and P-8 Neptune ASW aircraft were networked together (despite such
assets being of contrasting origins - Russian to US-made), in any warfighting scenario, information will be shared
very seamlessly between IN's various platforms.

However, it's not relevant here because PN's surface fleet isn't much to be networked about.



Range figures will need some quotation...that said, MF-STAR also has great EW/ESM capabilities in both offensive
and defensive sense. This is backed up to the fact Israel has great track record & experience in building
top-of-the-line radars and EW systems.

Chill down mate...

BOTH IN and TNF are advanced enough to link their assets. The only difference is TNF is also linked to NATO ships thats all. MF STAR is like Israeli wonder handling to SMART-S. But more advanced. I think it lacks at range and electronic attack capabilities. CAFRAD range is gonna be fitted to RIM-162 SM-3 Block IA.

 

[Neptune]

Ofcourse, Turkey being a NATO country will have the capability to link with other NATO vessels if needed...but what I was
saying is, any NATO-specific capability will not be relevant to non-NATO countries like Pakistan. While IN has enough own
assets and doesn't need other countries' ships/aircraft (nor is any such help expected), so, CAFRAD's ability to link with
other NATO assets is only relevant to Turkey. But that's not a capability in itself - any ship/aircraft can be linked with other
NATO assets with the inclusion of supporting equipment.



Not just more advanced, but in an entirely different class. For starters, MFSTAR is an AESA while SMART-S is a PESA.

MF-STAR has a maximum tracking range of 250km against high-flying fighter aircraft, search range is believed
to be in the region of 400km for aerial targets (not sure about this bit). SMART-S picks up a patrol aircraft at ~200km.

Fighter RCS : 2 m^2 to 5 m^2
Patrol aircraft RCS : easily above 40-50 m^2

Plus SMART-S is a rotating array, which is not all that advisable when it comes to tracking of fast-moving supersonic
missile targets, which would lead to successful interception.

Infact IN could soon be looking for such 3D surveillance/air search radars to be mounted as a secondary radar
on the Kolkata-class and upcoming Bangalore-class, replacing the RAWL-02. The more powerful SMART-L and
RAN-40L could be the likely competitors.



Not sure what is making you say that...

http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/3/27543.pdf

It also includes the latest multi-beam forming techniques for robust ECCM and extracting low RCS targets from
cluttered/heavy jamming environments.



The physical dimensions of MF-STAR and CAFRAD (based on available concept images) don't suggest any
major difference, better or worse. However we will see - as info on MF-STAR isn't all that open and CAFRAD as
yet hasn't shown up in real form.

Agreed ...Do have a military background? IN maybe ?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Nothing will save PAF once a barrage of BrahMos, Prahaar & Shaurya are launched on your airbases.

And there wont be any Nasrs,hatfs,shaheens,Babars CMs,RAAD ALCMs etc etc greeting indian bases.. smart you are..

Where and when? In your dreams?

I have never seen such a clueless fool. Do you even know what AEGIS is and what it takes to defy it's capabilities? The
Russians, Chinese, etc. are all searching for the answers right now. And here we have PAF pilots who found a way to fly a dumb half-century old Mirage across aegis warship without being detected...it probably flew by when Aegis was turned off!

NO. 8 SQUADRON'S "MISSION IMPOSSIBLE" SUCCEEDS
1500 HOURS - 30 MAY 1995

Flying a few feet above the Arabian Sea, the two Mirage pilots are impressed by the awesome silhouette of the nuclear-powered Abraham Lincoln as the carrier looms gradually above the sea curvature, dead on the nose. The mission: To penetrate successfully the Carrier Task Force's early warning and perimeter defences and, to deliver a simulated Exocet guided missile attack on "the world's largest warship". The memorable sortie was flown during "Inspired Alert" - a Pakistan-US joint exercise. O.C. No. 8 Squadron, strictly following the ground rules, planned and led a simultaneous multidirectional attack profile against CVN-72, in an attempt to overload its defence. As two of the three Mirage pairs turned away, the lead Mirage carried out a simulated Exocet "launch" from several miles away, without meeting any of the ship's fighters. The Squadron Commander and his wingman later did a friendly fly by at the carrier's side, perhaps just as surprised as the Lincoln's crews, at the missed interception.

Wing Commander Asim Suleiman Leader and O.C. No 8 Squadron
Flight Lieutenant Ahmed Hassan Wingman

Oh and with what? A bunch of missile boats? I bet those boats can't even paint a stealthy warship at 50km.

missile boats? you mean the 600 ton FACs? they wont br "painting" anything rather harrassing indian navy ships... n getting the hell out of there...

A RAW official told me MARCOS have planted bombs on the hulls of all PN ships & subs and then we can
detonate them at will as soon as war is declared.

Yes sure... how more stupid can you get? i remember another idiot claiming abt a "Secret invasion of IOK by a rogue military commander with 30,000 soldiers n indian n Pak govt hiding tht accident" ...

45 MiG-29Ks, several dedicated squadrons of Su-30MKI and SEPECAT Jaguar for maritime roles. Will
be added by 1-2 squadrons of Rafale too, along with 46 Mk-2 Tejas.

More than enough - plus remember, while using these air assets (IN plans to have 200-300 aircraft for itself),
we are NOT thinning out the fighting capabilities of the IAF to any extent.

How many LCA mk-Is are flying? ZERO,NULL!

How many rafaels ordered? ZERO,NADA,NULL,NOCHISMO.

Stop brain farting amigo.

No, just internet knowledge, friend.



We are not a big-mouthed loose cannon like you to target anyone without reason. India and Turkey share a lot of trade
and bilateral relations.



Lol, pissed at you in the correct place, after all!

@Oscar @Chak Bamu @Web Master @Aeronaut @Jungibaaz control this puppy..

 

[MilSpec]

@Aeronaut, Please delete off topic posts, and take appropriate action against derailing the thread.

 

[MastanKhan]

Brother,

Raad is cruise Missile, and cruise Missile because of its very low attitude of flying, and very slow in speed, its very easy to hit the moving Target.

Danish

Sir,

You are totally clueless about the subject matter----