Indian Army General praises Musharraf and Accepts Kargil loss

[Usama78]

While i do not see this debate going anywhere because the nature of topic, i understand that no side will want to back off or even out in much effort to keep the discussion progress in a civilized manner, i still have one point to share.

At that time, the Indians had a false sense of superiority, the superpower delusion they face today was present at that time as well. One little thing that we achieved was woke them from that wet dream, we broke there false sense grandeur and invincibility with a brigade level fight. The IAF with all its tall claims of much superior air planes and huge numbers was NOT able to achieve what they SHOULD have, complete air control wrecking havoc on PA. I know a common response to this will be a few videos from plane's camera, showing bombs hitting the posts. These are the same videos different people use at different time under different heading but for anyone who is interested in actually learning something from this debate, understand the actual meaning of what i said. "complete air control wrecking havoc on PA.", the claims at that time will make you think that the planes alone could come down and gobble up our tanks and artillery as well without even belching! THAT WAS NOT THE CASE. The EGO was hurt badly, the false sense of bravado was exposed and the tall claims of complete dominance and superiority came crashing down. For me, that is a win enough now. We see some senior officials from Indian army and other walks of life, coming forward every now and then and admitting to all these failures, much to the dismay of general Indian public, cannot blame either one of them for that!

Exactly my point. The little on the field success to be added too. i.e Intelligence superiority and the .5353 peak we still hold.
For Indian, just be happy that, no matter how, you got back all you lost except the .5353 peak

 

[Indus Falcon]

Very interesting thread!

Kargil coffin scam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

RAW, IB were in denial on Kargil intelligence failure: ex-Army chief

'Intelligence failure led to Kargil'

India suffered 1,874 casualties without fighting a war - The Times of India

 

[chhota bheem]

So, why were you blocking the car?

My advice to you is,you should stop reading stories ,or iif you read pretend you understood and keep quite ,and not comment on it as it gives away your comprehension skills.

 

[Indus Falcon]

So, why were you blocking the car?

Some people are just like that, by birth!! Some are dropped on their head while they were young.

You decide which one suits him best!

 

[chhota bheem]

An interesting story. Thanks for sharing this interesting story. However, it hardly has to do anything with the logic being followed. Keep on sharing such stories. These stories are good for some change.

I think you havent read the post i was quoting.

 

[Post Colonnial]

Apparently you make no sense but maybe this post is all about not making sense...

what part of it doesn't make sense to you? These are just facts, not opinions or arguments. If they don't make sense to you it simply means you are ill informed

 

[Sam.]

India has lost all wars against Pakistan.

We should merge in Pakistan

 

[Post Colonnial]

thats no logic, after all you have Modi too...
Don't believe me? just google ""Stuidest prime minister" in google and your Maharaja shows up
Even google gets a kick out of modi...

why are you guys / gals so intimidated by Modi? looks like Modi (and Doval to some extent) has caused such widespread fear and anguish in Pakistan that we may soon have to send in some psychiatrists and counselors to calm you all down before you burst your veins.

When your elected prime minister admits defeat, when your military generals admit defeat, when your press has run hundreds of hours of 'why Pakistan lost' programs ....if you still believe Pakistan 'won' Kargil, there is only one thing left to do.

Look up your favorite search engine for what Musharraf said about why you lost the Kargil war. But then you may no longer believe Google since Mr.Sunder Pichai has become CEO.

 

[Rajkumar]

if General Musharaf drinks then it is his personal life... i dont care.
watch your filthy mouth... its General musharraf not mushy... dont behave like a baniya


even if its old from previous government.... it wouldnt make sense in him lying especially being an army man... are your generals and soldiers not honorable?? or r they liars??

mushy mushy Mushyyyyyy

 

[Immanuel]

Very interesting thread!

Kargil coffin scam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

RAW, IB were in denial on Kargil intelligence failure: ex-Army chief

'Intelligence failure led to Kargil'

India suffered 1,874 casualties without fighting a war - The Times of India

Well over 6000 PA troops died without actually fighting a war on terror, what is your point here? Sure Kargil was an intelligence failure for India but that's India's problem. The so called partial war on terror that Pak fights, killing some militants while using others as strategic assets, the biggest toll has been on the civilians over 50000 dead since 2004. If anything, going by the staggering civilian losses one can clearly say that PA and the political leadership have continued to fail the civilians in Pak, another example of a failed state.

 

[Asian.Century]

Tiger hills and the point 5353 were snatched by pak army from Anda army during 1999 kargil war and till today they are under pak army's safe control.

 

[FULL_METAL]

This is for media consumption only. When was this posted? I think it may have been for the previous government of India......as Gen. Singh has had various issues with them.

The true results of Kargil are a lot different. If Pakistan would've won, it would've cut Kashmir and the Ladakh highway. Instead, the second the IAF got GPS's from Israel, it destroyed majority of all the forward posts PA was operating out of.

The US brokered the deal, otherwise, this would've become a full scale war. The PAF had rudimentary capability to fight the IAF, due to the lack of upgraded planes, BVR and issues with spares and all.

When you don't achieve your objectives, and lose about 5-10K soldiers, its not a winning situation! There was no need to put so many lives at risk, no matter how you define "Martyrs".

The term "WAR" isn't applicable here also, as the term "WAR" in today's warfare means an integrated battle by a country's entire military setup (PAF, PN and PA). This was just an adventure by Mushy, as he was from Pakistan's special forces.

He thought that the SF alone can cut off Kashmir's main artery highway inside India and the PA can charge ahead. Behind the scenes, its a known fact that the PAF and PN were initially never brought into this, and when they were, some of the most senior officers totally disregard the idea that the PAF or the PN can be used in an offense as their capability was very limited and defensive in nature.

Excellent post man, looking forward to read more from u btw are u an Indian American? coz I rarely seen foreigners having this deep knowledge about sub continental affairs

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

We are sooooo good at chest thumping!!!!! Rejoice that wine drinking womanizing Idiot usurper of power has given Pakistan a victory at the loss of 5-10 000 men and begging the US of A to broker a deal. We deserve to be in the situation that we are in.
Araz

This is a poor simplification of Kargil operation, and a very pedestrian analysis, driven by Indian propaganda. Kargil was a painful experience, but not as gloomy as most people make it. Wish I could talk about the silver lining for both countries.

 

[GreenFalcon]

why are you guys / gals so intimidated by Modi? looks like Modi (and Doval to some extent) has caused such widespread fear and anguish in Pakistan that we may soon have to send in some psychiatrists and counselors to calm you all down before you burst your veins.

When your elected prime minister admits defeat, when your military generals admit defeat, when your press has run hundreds of hours of 'why Pakistan lost' programs ....if you still believe Pakistan 'won' Kargil, there is only one thing left to do.

Look up your favorite search engine for what Musharraf said about why you lost the Kargil war. But then you may no longer believe Google since Mr.Sunder Pichai has become CEO.

did you google it or you want me post a picture here?

 

[Usama78]

Well over 6000 PA troops died without actually fighting a war on terror, what is your point here? Sure Kargil was an intelligence failure for India but that's India's problem. The so called partial war on terror that Pak fights, killing some militants while using others as strategic assets, the biggest toll has been on the civilians over 50000 dead since 2004. If anything, going by the staggering civilian losses one can clearly say that PA and the political leadership have continued to fail the civilians in Pak, another example of a failed state.

I dont see why you are going off the topic but ok.
Who said we never fought a war with terrorists? We still are.... A full fledge operation is up since last more then a year...
Ever since the Zarb e Azb, everything is getting better... So, none of what you said is of any value.