India must respect Vienna convention on Italy envoy's immunity says EU

[mehboobkz]

It is payrole not payroll,I mean letting the prisoners do their personal duties.May not be the exact word.

Ohh my dimwit Indian...

It is parole!
Something that you meant?

 

[Thor]

Ohh my dimwit Indian...

It is parole!
Something that you meant?

I thought that as well, but hey ho, at least he tried. And by the way to sri, this is only after conviction, so they would infact come under the Bail Act

 

[Audio]

NATO will never get involved. That is the American way. EU works with compromises.

In the end, marines will be trialed in Italy, if found guilty they will go to jail for a while, ambassador will be changed, a large compensation for the families to drop their case will be put forth all in a bid to present a solution in which both parties seem to come out as winners. India might also get some candy (ToT on something) in return.

 

[Srinivas]

Ohh my dimwit Indian...

It is parole!
Something that you meant?

I do rather say My nokia lumia is a dim wit with its spell check

Ian surprised at your silly comments when quoting myself without any concept of the legal framework.

First thing, India cannot out on trial any national for an incident in International waters......cannot is the word here. international waters is for International Courtsto decide, not India, regardless of the victims being Indians or Martians. Makes odds here, it is the legally binding agreements signed to by India as well.

Secondly, you can comment on what Pakistan is like all the time, nonetheless call it whatnot will, those victims families accepted blood money for the killings of their loved ones, period. If Indiawantedto playthehighground, theyshouldhave refused and stuck to the argument they had about it being an offence under Indian law.

Realistically speaking again and again and again, something alot of you here don't seem to understand, the envoy has immunity, which means you cannot touch him...simples. Please read the convention before going off into an emotional speech about what should happen.

I think I have had enough of ying to explain this position over and over again with people here. Reminds me of Mark Twain's qoute "You can't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Leave about the immunity of the liar Diplomat.

On what basis you are saying the incident happened in International waters ????

Can you prove it???

I thought that as well, but hey ho, at least he tried. And by the way to sri, this is only after conviction, so they would infact come under the Bail Act

Yes ,I thought this word is close what I meant and so used it

 

[anonymus]

I do rather say My nokia lumia is a dim wit with its spell check



Leave about the immunity of the liar Diplomat.

On what basis you are saying the incident happened in International waters ????

Can you prove it???

GoI itself says that incident happened in contiguous zone.In contiguous zone a country has right to give chase and arrest but no right to proclaim sovereignty hence it is international water for all legal purposes.



In your patriotic zeal my Indian friend,you are overlooking criminally inept handling of this matter done by GoI and SC repeatedly governed by nothing but their arrogance.No is at fault but us.

 

[Srinivas]

GoI itself says that incident happened in contiguous zone.In contiguous zone a country has right to give chase and arrest but no right to proclaim sovereignty hence it is international water for all legal purposes.



In your patriotic zeal my Indian friend,you are overlooking criminally inept handling of this matter done by GoI and SC repeatedly governed by nothing but their arrogance.No is at fault but us.

No India has the jurisdiction

The term "territorial waters" is also sometimes used informally to describe any area of water over which a state has jurisdiction, including internal waters, the contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and potentially the continental shelf.

According to GOI the incident happened inside territorial waters.

from wiki. Territorial waters - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[anonymus]

No India has the jurisdiction



According to GOI the incident happened inside territorial waters.

from wiki. Territorial waters - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you understand the difference between territorial waters, contiguous zone and International waters?????

 

[Thor]

I do rather say My nokia lumia is a dim wit with its spell check



Leave about the immunity of the liar Diplomat.

On what basis you are saying the incident happened in International waters ????

Can you prove it???



Yes ,I thought this word is close what I meant and so used it

First thing, you cannot just leave out the issue of immunity from any discussion

http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_1_1961.pdf

Now, firstly the Indian First Incident Report FIR states that this incident happened 33 miles from India, this then got changed to within 20 miles. The point is, on what basis did this FIR report mention 33 miles and by whom....... The onus lays with India to explain that, and as such there own investigation I.e. FIR which forms parts of any investigation to begin with itself exonerates the marines from the Indian judicial system. The families accepted 10 million rupees, more then enough and most of all ACCEPTED by the families so that takes away that argument as well.

 

[anonymus]

First thing, you cannot just leave out the issue of immunity from any discussion

http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_1_1961.pdf

Now, firstly the Indian First Incident Report FIR states that this incident happened 33 miles from India, this then got changed to within 20 miles. The point is, on what basis did this FIR report mention 33 miles and by whom....... The onus lays with India to explain that, and as such there own investigation I.e. FIR which forms parts of any investigation to begin with itself exonerates the marines from the Indian judicial system. The families accepted 10 million rupees, more then enough and most of all ACCEPTED by the families so that takes away that argument as well.

Both 33 miles and 20 miles are beyond Indian jurisdiction so that is only a technical point.

Even India had accepted it and has decided to convene special court to try marines as prosecuting them within the bound of Indian legal system would have ran afoul of International commitment of India.



http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/closindx.htm

SECTION 4. CONTIGUOUS ZONE


Article33

Contiguous zone

1. In a zone contiguous to its territorial sea, described as the contiguous zone, the coastal State may exercise the control necessary to:

(a) prevent infringement of its customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations within its territory or territorial sea;

(b) punish infringement of the above laws and regulations committed within its territory or territorial sea.

2. The contiguous zone may not extend beyond 24 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured.

 

[Srinivas]

Do you understand the difference between territorial waters, contiguous zone and International waters?????

My answer lies in the quote.

 

[Thor]

Both 33 miles and 20 miles are beyond Indian jurisdiction so that is only a technical point.

Even India had accepted it and has decided to convene special court to try marines as prosecuting them within the bound of Indian legal system would have ran afoul of International commitment of India.

I know, I am just trying to explain the position to the other member who is letting his emotions get the better of him.something that should have been dealt with in the early stages and settled lead to this embarrassment for both countries to try and save some face.

 

[anonymus]

My answer lies in the quote.

You should cross check from better sources

UNCLOS and Agreement on Part XI - Preamble and frame index

SECTION 4. CONTIGUOUS ZONE


Article33

Contiguous zone

1. In a zone contiguous to its territorial sea, described as the contiguous zone, the coastal State may exercise the control necessary to:

(a) prevent infringement of its customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations within its territory or territorial sea;

(b) punish infringement of the above laws and regulations committed within its territory or territorial sea.

2. The contiguous zone may not extend beyond 24 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured.

This is a quote from original treaty and it clearly explains that in contiguous zone a country could exercise it's authority only to enforce laws that are being violated or under the threat of being violated within Territorial water and that too under limiting circumstances.

 

[mehboobkz]

I do rather say My nokia lumia is a dim wit with its spell check

I know you were clueless here, once again!
For, check your post beginning from the word pay roll.
Then you came to payrol.
Then, when reminded by me, the potential word could be parole, is that what he meant.
He implies yes, but blames it on his Nokia Lumia for spelling mistake once again on a key word...
How convenient.

With all this (above) imbroglio, he is STILL WRONG!
Even with the word parole...

The parole is NOT meant for under trials. It is meant for crimnals/prisnors already sentenced.....

parole
n. 1) the release of a convicted criminal defendant after he/she has completed part of his/her prison sentence, based on the concept that during the period of parole, the released criminal can prove he/she is rehabilitated and can "make good" in society. A parole generally has a specific period and terms such as reporting to a parole officer, not associating with other ex-convicts, and staying out of trouble. Violation of the terms may result in revocation of parole and a return to prison to complete his/her sentence. 2) a promise by a prisoner of war that if released he will not take up arms again

 

[Mike_Brando]

If I were the Italian government, I would order the ambassador to report back to Italy pronto. See if the Indian immigration officers would arrest him. Just to see how big a ball the Indian got.

nah we have got some f**king real balls mate!thats why Italy couldn't do a s**t when the GOI ordered the Italian ambassador to stay within the Indian territory until further notice!i think you must have remembered that particular incident where the Canadian Govt. refused to grant visa to an ex-official of the Border Security Force(B.S.F.) citing reasons that the B.S.F. has a history of some serious human rights violations.then the GOI lodged a strong protest against this statement and later the Canadian Govt. sent a formal apology to India and granted visa to that person!this incident itself shows that India has got enough weight in the international diplomatic arena

 

[Speeder 2]

I didn't look into the news in details until now.

Thor is right!

indians

1. int'l water = int'l court:

Probably only 1 or 2 superpowers (no supapawa) in this world can do the trial domestically by their sheer force, and only very rarely, even if it happened in int'l water. India vs Italy? forget about it!

2. don't accept blood $$.

you accepted the compensations hence you have no moral high ground left. And can not trial them again even in an int'l court. you can't have it both ways.


3. the most ridiculous part, "hold Italian ambassador"? come again?

An ambassador is NOT a private person but a body representing a country's sovereignty – this is abc. even Italian ambassador himself killed the fishmen instead of the marines, India can not touch him.

if sb is to blamed, blame that moron indian judge. any ambassador will do his utmost for his citizens but court judges just can not take the guarantee of an ambassador at its face value cuz you don't have the ultimate judiciary power if the guarantee turns sour.

So the fact is:

Italians just played India and its moronic court judges, legally!