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India must respect Vienna convention on Italy envoy's immunity says EU

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Mike_Brando said:
no it ain't over yet mate:disagree:!they killed two of our compatriots and we want justice for this barbaric murder.so its either the two killers or the Italian ambassador to India!its up to Italy to decide whom it hold more dear,the ambassador or the two marines!and we don't give a s**t to what EU or the Vienna convention says about this kind of matters!personally i don't think EU has the courage to do anything against a $2 trillions economy as India is an important trading partner with the EU and they don't have enough military might to challenge India.Period:coffee:!
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I just don't understand, we'll I do actually, the sheer arrogance of Indians in general. Their economy is on the rise and all of a sudden they think they can take on any country in the world and that the world evolves around them.

Nobody mentioned anything about a military confrontation anyway so that is out of the window argument. Secondly, unlike the Chinese who appear to be more humble and understand the interlinked trade they have with the EU.....it is high time the Indians too understood that this is a two way street.

If the EU decides today, to hell with Indian goods, they shall not be bought from India again and all call centres in India to be closed and moved back to EU countries, my friend India would be crippled very quickly. You seem to live in a fools haven. Yes, products will be more expensive to manufacture in the EU, nonetheless this is give the opportunity for the Europeans to lives within their means........

So please, let's post sensibly with meaningful posts rather then the rubbish dumping ground thesis becoming

nair said:
Does vienna convension allows ambassador to give a false promise to a court and then say no u cant do a sh!t.... I have immunity?????? I doubt what would be the action if the tables were turned????????
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My friend, I work in this sort of industry and will not disclose exactly what that is, however let me make it clear,....... If a person has diplomatic immunity, then only that country from which he came can remove that immunity. The host country, India can do nothing. Even if the diplomat kills an Indian in broad daylight, he cannot be prosecuted in India unless Italy removes that blanket immunity over him. In such a case, he would be deported and probably held for trial in Italy.

That is what India agree to sign up to and if breached, then that nation as well as other nations will pull its personnel out of India as they too do not have any immunity any longer despite the Vienna/Geneva conventions which would be seen as not being honoured.
 
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Thor said:
I just don't understand, we'll I do actually, the sheer arrogance of Indians in general. Their economy is on the rise and all of a sudden they think they can take on any country in the world and that the world evolves around them.

Nobody mentioned anything about a military confrontation anyway so that is out of the window argument. Secondly, unlike the Chinese who appear to be more humble and understand the interlinked trade they have with the EU.....t is high time the Indians to o understand that this is a two way street.

If the EU decides today, to he'll with Indian goods, they shall not be bought from India again and all call centres in India to be closed and moved to EU accounts, my friend India would be crippled very quickly. You seem to live in a fools haven. Yes, products will be more expensive to manufacture in the EU, nonetheless this is give the opportunity for the Europeans to lives within their means........

So please, let's post sensibly with meaningful posts ratherthen the rubbish dumping ground thesis becoming
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Firstly, It isn't EU with which India is dealing here, EU is not a SOVEREIGN COUNTRY but a group of nations & i seriously don't think that EU will come in b/w Diplomatic matters of two sovereign countries apart from ofcourse - Verbal Support.

Secondly, It is not about INDIAN ARROGANCE. It's about a Promise made by the Ambassador of Italy to the highest court of India, in the name of his country. This is the Contempt of Court of the APEX court of India. Believe me, even if GOI don't want to move the case ahead, it will be the SC's actions which will force GOI to ACT.
 
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Thor said:
I just don't understand, we'll I do actually, the sheer arrogance of Indians in general. Their economy is on the rise and all of a sudden they think they can take on any country in the world and that the world evolves around them.

Nobody mentioned anything about a military confrontation anyway so that is out of the window argument. Secondly, unlike the Chinese who appear to be more humble and understand the interlinked trade they have with the EU.....t is high time the Indians to o understand that this is a two way street.

If the EU decides today, to he'll with Indian goods, they shall not be bought from India again and all call centres in India to be closed and moved to EU accounts, my friend India would be crippled very quickly. You seem to live in a fools haven. Yes, products will be more expensive to manufacture in the EU, nonetheless this is give the opportunity for the Europeans to lives within their means........

So please, let's post sensibly with meaningful posts ratherthen the rubbish dumping ground thesis becoming




My friend, I work in this sort of industry and will not disclose exactly what that is, however let me make it clear,....... If a person has diplomatic immunity, then only that country from which he came can remove that immunity. The host country, India can do nothing. Even if the diplomat kills an Indian in broad daylight, he cannot be prosecuted in India unless Italy removes that blanket immunity over him. In such a case, he would be deported and probably held for trial in Italy.

That is what India agree to sign up to and if breached, then that nation as well as other nations will pull its personnel out of India as they too do not have any immunity any longer despite the Vienna/Geneva conventions which would be seen as not being honoured.
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but the problem is he has no immunity....
BBC News - India-Italy marines row: 'No legal immunity' for envoy Daniele Mancini
 
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kaykay said:
but the problem is he has no immunity....
BBC News - India-Italy marines row: 'No legal immunity' for envoy Daniele Mancini
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This is the main point, the Indian court is arguing that because he gave his assurance to the court, hence why by default the immunity does not exist, ACCORDING TO THEIR DECISION

International law doesn't care about such things. This is an agreement made by the Sovereign nation of India to the
World that it will follow the rules of the convention. The Indian Supreme Court has no jurisdiction intros, it can argue its domestic laws as much as it likes, ultimately the GOI has to abide by the convention. It is abit like the RaymondDavis case, despite chest thumping, ultimately Davis had to be released, whether liked by the people or establishment or not.

On a second note, the Indian court should have asked about this issue and discussed it before granting bail itself as I have said in my post earlier
 
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arp2041 said:
Firstly, It isn't EU with which India is dealing here, EU is not a SOVEREIGN COUNTRY but a group of nations & i seriously don't think that EU will come in b/w Diplomatic matters of two sovereign countries apart from ofcourse - Verbal Support.

Secondly, It is not about INDIAN ARROGANCE. It's about a Promise made by the Ambassador of Italy to the highest court of India, in the name of his country. This is the Contempt of Court of the APEX court of India. Believe me, even if GOI don't want to move the case ahead, it will be the SC's actions which will force GOI to ACT.
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Ease stick with the thread, I was responding to a post which mentioned the EU, hence the reply given with the EU. Pleases tick to the discussion being had with members

jaunty said:
LOL you Pakistanis are a funny bunch.
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You Indians are just too stupid if you can't tell if that post was made by a Pakistani or a Chinese national
 
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India should say
Bi*ch Please

First off all put him in jail in case of fraud then allow him to fight his case in court,it will take a minimum of 10-12 yrs

On topic,Indian judicial system is a matured one,believe me or not it will take a max of 1-2 yrs and the Italian envoy will be released.The court will not punish him for the wrong doings of the marines,and at last India-Italian relations will degrade
 
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CZAR said:
Rough estimates peg the Rafael deal at about USD 20 billion - which translates into Euro 15-16 billion. For one, that figure is pretty big for a country that is facing steep economic challenges.

Secondly, trade ties are formed over years of engagement and collaboration and tend to become crucial for the local economy to grow and develop. Suspension of trade ties is as likely to hurt one as the other. So even if france were to support india, Italy - given that it is already on its knees - would not be able to afford calls on trade with france based on jingoistic compulsions.

On the contrary, India is not so intricately linked with france. And there is no paucity of options for a multi-role fighter contract.

France would have little to loose (by way of an Italian reaction) if it supports India, but could risk losing billions if it supports Italy.

This, of course, is all in a hypothetical scenario that India does put the rafale on the line.
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Indian arrogance is indeed amusing, i guess time will tell whether the Marines and the Ambassador walks scot free. So far, all the analysts and experts are predicting that the Ambassador will not be prosecuted and i agree with that conclusion. Also, time will tell which side the French will support. So far it seems that the Italians have secured the consent of the EU, the French have at no point stated that they will support India in this case so your entire hypothetical scenario is pretty much garbage. It will certainly be a real bruise on the Indian arrogance if the Italian Ambassador walks free without any consequences. What the Indians here are failing to contemplate is that, there is no country in this world that will support India's position because this will setup a precedence that will endanger the immunity of there own diplomats. So far, India has not found any International backers but the Italians certainly have. Actions speak louder than words.
 
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Some Judges in Supreme Court of India are real tools.

First they allowed an ambassador to stand surety knowing fully well that he could not be prosecuted and are now dragging Country's reputation in mud by pronouncing quixotic judgement which goes against international treaties.All this just to assauge their over sized egos.

Kataju had presented a fine example of a Judge intoxicated by power.
 
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notorious_eagle said:
Indian arrogance is indeed amusing, i guess time will tell whether the Marines and the Ambassador walks scot free. So far, all the analysts and experts are predicting that the Ambassador will not be prosecuted and i agree with that conclusion. Also, time will tell which side the French will support. So far it seems that the Italians have secured the consent of the EU, the French have at no point stated that they will support India in this case so your entire hypothetical scenario is pretty much garbage. It will certainly be a real bruise on the Indian arrogance if the Italian Ambassador walks free without any consequences.
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What do you mean by this, cant you refrain from writing just about anything under the sun.

I was banned month long for such a statement, and here you will go scott free. I should be saying the same about Pakistanis, oh well :rolleyes:
 
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