India may raise with Washington use of US-made ATGMs by Pak to target Indian troops

[帅的一匹]

The US won't lose Pakistan to China. They generally tend to get their way whenever it comes to Pakistan. If things go south for the US, they tend to issue out threats and Pakistan falls in line after that.

China never ask Pakistan to pick side. It's people have wisdom to tell who is real friend and who is not.
We just try to provide minimum deterrence for our friend.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

Dude, that's fine. All that's small stuff. Nobody is talking about isolating Pakistan here.

so you think Attack Copters are small stuff compared to ATGMs? really?
btw we are also getting 1000 hell fire missiles

 

[帅的一匹]

The US won't lose Pakistan to China. They generally tend to get their way whenever it comes to Pakistan. If things go south for the US, they tend to issue out threats and Pakistan falls in line after that.



Correct. If China didn't exist, then the West wouldn't be as bothered about India for at least another decade. And after the decade, the West would become more antagonist towards India as long as other interests did not converge.

Right now, they are looking at the 'potential of China' and the 'potential of India' and reacting to the two situations. If there was no 'potential of India', we would not be important to them.

The West is worried about the 'potential' of both countries. As it stands today, neither country are an economic or military threat to the West and won't be one for at least another 20-30 years.

For all you know, something may happen in the Middle East which will involve India, and the West may suddenly find India a greater threat than China and try befriending China then. China's relations have always flip-flopped in the past. So what makes you think it will be any different in the future?

Being a player, not a chess piece.

I hope peace between India and Pakistan. It's not hypocritical, it's real. But sometimes ambition and dignity won't let it go.

 

[randomradio]

so you think Attack Copters are small stuff compared to ATGMs? really?
btw we are also getting 1000 hell fire missiles

Yes. Because they are irrelevant in the long run. As China's influence in Pakistan increases, the ability to shop elsewhere will decrease. A small number of western systems being purchased or in operation today will not matter in, say, 5 years from now.

 

[帅的一匹]

Since both countries are nuclear capable, I dont expect a large scale of war will break out.

Status-quo is the best result for China.

 

[Imran Khan]

PAF got BVR on the F-16s after over 2 decades. The point is a monopoly allows the vendor to dictate what you can and can't have. Defence imports has to be about buyer's market, not the seller's.



I do not hate Pakistan, but I don't have any love for Pakistan as well. I'm simply indifferent. Just like my govt, I believe in mutual co-existence, but you lot don't like that.

As for illogical arguments, I think you need to look at your countrymen, even the apparently "educated" ones, who think LCA is late because it will get its FOC 3 years after the JF-17 did and that India has wasted billions in building up a defence industry that is now actually delivering.

Anyway, China is "helping" Pakistan to the point where Pakistan gets an assured supplier but will never get an assured defence industry. Perfectly suits us. The slower you figure out how China works, the better for us.

Aim 7 was with pakiatan since starting .and amraam were i ducted in 1991 when pakiatan was under sanctions . Try to read some history sir

 

[randomradio]

China never ask Pakistan to pick side. It's people have wisdom to tell who is real friend and who is not.
We just try to provide minimum deterrence for our friend.

The Pakistanis are yet to experience actual Chinese 'hospitality'. One rule of thumb we have within our policy circles. "The Pakistanis always lie and the Chinese only respect strength".

As long as Pakistan doesn't become as strong as China, China will never have respect for Pakistan. When it comes to China, if you can't stand on equal terms at the minimum, you can only be a subordinate or be bullied.

The Chinese in fact gave this as a reason when the US wanted to expand the G2 group to include India. The Chinese also criticized the American sale of P-8s to India saying, "Selling them a weapon system above their stature".

The Pakistanis will quickly find out how China works in a few years.

 

[Areesh]

Without so called 'China threats', India is not worthy of penny in the eye of the West. So just being grateful.

Leave Indians with their delusions about isolating Pakistan and all that. These idiots with their low IQ want to see only what they want to see. And not the realities

Now coming to this topic the realities are these:

Pakistan wasn't planning to buy any new ATGM from USA. There are no plans to buy any ATGM so India can whine all it want to. It won't impact Pakistan in any manner.

Pakistan already has HJ8 or Baktar Shikan in thousands that it produces itself.

Pakistan also has American TOW missile and Pakistan has no plans to buy more of these:

Pakistan also bought 1400 plus Alcotan 100 missiles which can be used against Indian positions on LOC

And then there are also rumors Pakistan has bought Kosava-1 precision-guided missile from Serbia:

And then there are several other options that are available to Pakistan from other countries like Turkey, China other European countries if we really needed more new ATGM even though we are satisfied with what we have right now.

Indian can whine to USA and think they are succeeding at something. Long live Indian delusions.

 

[randomradio]

Aim 7 was with pakiatan since starting .and amraam were i ducted in 1991 when pakiatan was under sanctions . Try to read some history sir

Nope to both.

Since both countries are nuclear capable, I dont expect a large scale of war will break out.

Status-quo is the best result for China.

There is little to no chance of a India-Pakistan war in the next 10 years. There is no chance for a Sino-India war in the next 20 years. Status quo works for us. But that has nothing to do with nukes.

 

[Areesh]

The Pakistanis will quickly find out how China works in a few years.

We would see about that. You don't need to worry about it. Thanks for your concerns anyways.

 

[Dazzler]

The Pakistanis are yet to experience actual Chinese 'hospitality'. One rule of thumb we have within our policy circles. "The Pakistanis always lie and the Chinese only respect strength".

As long as Pakistan doesn't become as strong as China, China will never have respect for Pakistan.

With this sentence, your whole argument smashes to the ground. You are too naive and oblivious of the facts and dont seem to have read or understood anything from history.

I dont blame you though as Bollywood sits in india, a country where the majority is infested with animosity towards its neighbors and minorities. At the same time, false chest thumping and fantasy riding seems to be the order of the day while minorities are being killed on the basis of mere false accusations and why not, it is ruled by a mass murderer who keeps selling them false dreams but fails to deliver enough toilets.

Everything you have said so far is contrary to the obvious and is noting but self worshipping.

Sigh! and pathetic.

 

[monitor]

New Delhi, Feb 10 (PTI) India is likely to raise with the Trump administration the use of US-made anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) by Pakistan Army to target Indian troops along the Line of Control in Jammu and Kashmir, defence ministry sources indicated today.

The Pakistan Army had used the ATMGs during heavy shelling on an Indian Army team along the LoC in Rajouri district of J-K last Sunday in which four army men including a captain were killed, the sources said.

Army sources had said that the Pakistan Army used 120mm mortars and the ATGMs in the Rajouri attack, adding usually Pakistan uses 80mm mortars to target Indian posts along the LoC.

The security establishment here is understood to have been concerned over use of US-made ATGMs by Pakistan considering the expanding Indo-US strategic ties.

"We are going to raise the issue with them (the US)", said a source.

The defence and security ties between India and the US have been on an upswing. In June 2016, the US had designated India a "Major Defence Partner" intending to elevate defence trade and technology sharing with India to a level commensurate with that of its closest allies and partners.

The Army last week had clearly indicated that it would take retaliatory action against the killing of four army men.

The sources said that Pakistan has been escalating the hostilities along the LoC and in hinterland in J-K to vitiate the atmosphere ahead of panchayat polls in the state. PTI MPB RT

https://www.indiatoday.in/pti-feed/...of-us-made-atgms-by-pak-to-1166809-2018-02-10

'Dehaati Aurat'

@BHarwana @Areesh @Windjammer @atya

US can't take back which they already sold for improving indo US strategic relation. Pakistan bought this missile to use against it's enemy not to put it in showcase. Until now even as per India ATGM used against Indian soldiers not against any civilian so no way to stop the attack how much you cry to US.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

Pakistan wasn't planning to buy any new ATGM from USA. There are no plans to buy any ATGM so India can whine all it want to. It won't impact Pakistan in any manner.

Pakistan might be precision testing the Baktar Shikan or ATGM on Indian forward lines and to use it as a bunker buster....the 4 IA people killed is a collateral damage for India...

 

[TheDarkKnight]

PAF got BVR on the F-16s after over 2 decades. The point is a monopoly allows the vendor to dictate what you can and can't have. Defence imports has to be about buyer's market, not the seller's.

Nice change of goal post. You clearly said BVRs were refused, and when I provided the evidence the context has now changed to alleged refusal of BVR in the initial F16 deal in the 80s.

I do not hate Pakistan, but I don't have any love for Pakistan as well. I'm simply indifferent. Just like my govt, I believe in mutual co-existence, but you lot don't like that.

As for illogical arguments, I think you need to look at your countrymen, even the apparently "educated" ones, who think LCA is late because it will get its FOC 3 years after the JF-17 did and that India has wasted billions in building up a defence industry that is now actually delivering.

So I guess you are agreeing that you knowingly are making illogical arguments, and the justification is that according to you some of my countrymen are also illogical.

Anyway, China is "helping" Pakistan to the point where Pakistan gets an assured supplier but will never get an assured defence industry. Perfectly suits us. The slower you figure out how China works, the better for us.

Folks: here is a way to spot someone completely losing his mind in hatred - key is to spot the self contradictory behavior and arguments in the post.

It “suits” you India that Pakistan stays in a certain negative state (Chinese help), and the “slower” Pakistan figures out the better for you - yet in the last 10 or so posts, including this one, you are trying your best that Pakistanis understand this point and reverse the direction ASAP - the reversal according to you will be better for Pakistan and not beneficial for India anymore?

And as usual you missed to respond on your claim of Chinese refusal for sharing the so called 3rd gen ATGMs tech with Pakistan, when Indians have been alleging China of sharing tech of much more strategic nature - nukes, missiles etc. - which is also be a voilation of MTCR and NPT.

 

[Dalit]

The US won't lose Pakistan to China. They generally tend to get their way whenever it comes to Pakistan. If things go south for the US, they tend to issue out threats and Pakistan falls in line after that.



Correct. If China didn't exist, then the West wouldn't be as bothered about India for at least another decade. And after the decade, the West would become more antagonist towards India as long as other interests did not converge.

Right now, they are looking at the 'potential of China' and the 'potential of India' and reacting to the two situations. If there was no 'potential of India', we would not be important to them.

The West is worried about the 'potential' of both countries. As it stands today, neither country are an economic or military threat to the West and won't be one for at least another 20-30 years.

For all you know, something may happen in the Middle East which will involve India, and the West may suddenly find India a greater threat than China and try befriending China then. China's relations have always flip-flopped in the past. So what makes you think it will be any different in the future?

I think you are in denial mode. The US has no leverage over Pakistan. Even a blind person knows that by now. US frustration is visible on a daily basis.

If Pakistan is falling in line it would immediately deliver on the do more demand.

The Indians and Americans will have to accept that Pakistan firmly belongs in the China camp. There is no escape from this reality.