India lower caste still removing human waste

[SrNair]

...i don't know why our stupid Kerala government are not talking any steps for adivasi upliftment??..
A lot of them are living without land,house,rations or don't have the facilities to go schools etc..look the chengara,vayanad samaram...aadivasis are protesting their for pattayam..but no one cares them.
On the other hand,Government is giving free land,houses,rations,building ......medium schools for the immigrant plantation workers of munaar and permeedu..
stupid....

There organising capability .Now due to the stringent forest laws poor Adivasis cant use forest like in their early times.A mass awareness program is needed to bring them in to modernworld.But some socialogists would try to block it because of the losing the traditions etc.

 

[Indrani]

Actually Govt distribute a lot of benefits through different schemes.But poor peoples and in some case even educated person dont know most of them .That is where the problem lies.
And from my experience most of lower caste people ,except few creamy elite or brilliant ,dont even interested in study .Some of them only visit school for receiving their grant and using it for other purpose. Now things are getting better .But these problems still are rampant in some area.
Only my personal experience in college gave me this impression. One of my college mate who found last place in entrance rank list got merit seat in my college because he was a SC student .He joined college and got drop out in 3 year because he dont want to study.
Fees for merit seat was 35000 during that time and he was succeeded for a scholarship from SC/ST welfare dept by giving his less income certificate .Means his one year fee was just 1000 rs.
Govt did their job here by giving him all facilities and support.This might be one from few exceptional case or not .But situation like this is a problem in India.

There is a lack of social capital among the lower caste. What that means is the upper caste has generations in their family who are decently educated and/or well placed. This creates an awareness and a social support among the upper caste which is not available to the lower caste. I mean imagine if everyone in your family is an illiterate or not well placed person in society, then what sort of direction and support are they going to provide you? In an upper class family the mom sits with the kids to see to it that homework is completed, she helps them in their studies, they get to go to tuition otherwise, their neighbors are educated, etc. etc. This creates a world of competition and awareness which is lacking in those from poorer background. This is what makes the difference.

 

[my2cents]

did you make all those spelling mistake intentionally

you should have known by now that he is a bad speller. I am a bad speller too, but I use a spell check.

 

[abjktu]

There organising capability .Now due to the stringent forest laws poor Adivasis cant use forest like in their early times.A mass awareness program is needed to bring them in to modernworld.But some socialogists would try to block it because of the losing the traditions etc.

yes,it will take time to integrate,but not a himalayan task...better provide them with good jobs,schools,hospitals,awareness campaigns etc etc...
what forest laws??..Thats what i said earlier that our government is distributing and giving free pattayams(mostly in the forest areas of munaar,chinnakanal,vadavada,marayoor) to those lungi immigrants without any proper study and survey..
These f forest laws are applicable only to poor adivasi..

 

[scorpionx]

Are you talking about me as saffron razakar? If so, how did I explain in terms of class struggle?

Opinions of "brainwashed zombies" must not be taken seriously

 

[Indrani]

Opinions of "brainwashed zombies" must not be taken seriously

Oh but they must. Have you seen a zombie movie? One zombie bites another normal human being and voila another zombie is created. Before you see in front of your very own eyes a zombie army is created and they take over the city and country. Ask Milla Jojovich if you don't believe me.

I do not see how me or Manvan presented any Marxist point of view here. We said it has nothing to do with caste system and there is no class struggle here. It is pure capitalism with those lacking skills or education doing the work no one else wants to do.

 

[Sahasranama]

There is a lack of social capital among the lower caste. What that means is the upper caste has generations in their family who are decently educated and/or well placed. This creates an awareness and a social support among the upper caste which is not available to the lower caste. I mean imagine if everyone in your family is an illiterate or not well placed person in society, then what sort of direction and support are they going to provide you? In an upper class family the mom sits with the kids to see to it that homework is completed, she helps them in their studies, they get to go to tuition otherwise, their neighbors are educated, etc. etc. This creates a world of competition and awareness which is lacking in those from poorer background. This is what makes the difference.

In today's day and age when the idiot box penetrates everywhere and internet connection is just a click away, the awareness levels are not linked to social support any-more.

I agree illiteracy becomes a huge barrier and the first generation folks struggle a lot, but once that barrier is breached its only your ambition and drive that takes you forward. Not you caste or your wealth.

 

[Indrani]

In today's day and age when the idiot box penetrates everywhere and internet connection is just a click away, the awareness levels are not linked to social support any-more.

I agree illiteracy becomes a huge barrier and the first generation folks struggle a lot, but once that barrier is breached its only your ambition and drive that takes you forward. Not you caste or your wealth.

Not true. A lot of poorer sections of the society have no awareness. What is the most watched TV program in most households? It is movies or songs or saas-bahu serials. Very rarely do households after a hard day's work watch educational programs. This is true for majority population in the country. Then there is also a case of lack of competitiveness or lack of awareness. I know people from my extended family who when they lived in poorer neighborhoods were just satisfied with average marks from their children. They would be happy if their kid got 60% in school, would proudly announce hey he got first class. So like they are caught in a time wrap without any understanding of how competitive India really has gotten. The same family when it moves to an upper class society suddenly sees every neighbors kid scoring 85% or 90% and start having anxiety attacks. Then follows tuition and what not to bring up the child to a level that is acceptable in the neighborhood.

 

[Sahasranama]

Not true. A lot of poorer sections of the society have no awareness. What is the most watched TV program in most households? It is movies or songs or saas-bahu serials. Very rarely do households after a hard day's work watch educational programs. This is true for majority population in the country. Then there is also a case of lack of competitiveness or lack of awareness. I know people from my extended family who when they lived in poorer neighborhoods were just satisfied with average marks from their children. They would be happy if their kid got 60% in school, would proudly announce hey he got first class. So like they are caught in a time wrap without any understanding of how competitive India really has gotten. The same family when it moves to an upper class society suddenly sees every neighbors kid scoring 85% or 90% and start having anxiety attacks. Then follows tuition and what not to bring up the child to a level that is acceptable in the neighborhood.

This argument is faulty at two levels,

1. Awareness through TV and internet is not necessarily via soaps. There are advertisements, Movies, news, foreign channels etc. This is enough to provide exposure to other way of life and light the spark of ambition. Once interest is sparked in a particular area then the person tends to follow up and gather knowledge in that area. Natural human curiosity takes over and progress is made.

2. Getting good education and marks is important, it gives you and edge, but that's it. There are millions who then squander away that edge. What matters in life is hard work and ambition. Even people with little education can make in a capitalistic world where opportunity are abound. Such artificial markup like scores were important only in the socialist days. Those days are now gone forever.

 

[scorpionx]

Oh but they must. Have you seen a zombie movie? One zombie bites another normal human being and voila another zombie is created. Before you see in front of your very own eyes a zombie army is created and they take over the city and country. Ask Milla Jojovich if you don't believe me.

I do not see how me or Manvan presented any Marxist point of view here. We said it has nothing to do with caste system and there is no class struggle here. It is pure capitalism with those lacking skills or education doing the work no one else wants to do.

Capitalism, as you want others to believe has, in fact very little if not nothing to do with caste apartheid. When you are emphatically, in your posts repeatedly grouping a set of people, irrespective of their caste hierarchy within the society as a economically underprivileged people you are creating a class who are doing manual scavenging by economic compulsion, in your words the effect of capitalism. Some of you unconsciously and some even consciously ignored and omitted the fact that manual scavenging job has been done by tradition through out history in India and it has become a social identity of a group, not for their impoverished economic structure but social prejudice. That given, even if a person is not engaged in manual scavenging job, he still remains within that social order. Traditional belief and prejudice is the all to be blamed, not capitalism which is a modestly newer and fresh arrival in Indian economy.

 

[Sahasranama]

Capitalism, as you want others to believe has, in fact very little if not nothing to do with caste apartheid. When you are emphatically, in your posts repeatedly grouping a set of people, irrespective of their caste hierarchy within the society as a economically underprivileged people you are creating a class who are doing manual scavenging by economic compulsion, in your words the effect of capitalism. Some of you unconsciously and some even consciously ignored and omitted the fact that manual scavenging job has been done by tradition through out history in India and it has become a social identity of a group, not for their impoverished economic structure but social prejudice. That given, even if a person is not engaged in manual scavenging job, he still remains within that social order. Traditional belief and prejudice is the all to be blamed, not capitalism which is a modestly newer and fresh arrival in Indian economy.

That is blatantly false. The person is free to emigrate out of his social order. If he chooses to stay back then how can you blame society ? there are plenty who break away and make a fresh start.

In most capitalist corporates no one bothers about your caste. Only efficiency and ambition matters.

In my very apartment there was a guy called Lokhande (blacksmith) who later changed his name to "dev' and now claims he's a brahmin. This is an extreme example, not everybody has to take such drastic steps, but it helps proves a point.

 

[Indrani]

This argument is faulty at two levels,

1. Awareness through TV and internet is not necessarily via soaps. There are advertisements, Movies, news, foreign channels etc. This is enough to provide exposure to other way of life and light the spark of ambition. Once interest is sparked in a particular area then the person tends to follow up and gather knowledge in that area. Natural human curiosity takes over and progress is made.

2. Getting good education and marks is important, it gives you and edge, but that's it. There are millions who then squander away that edge. What matters in life is hard work and ambition. Even people with little education can make in a capitalistic world where opportunity are abound. Such artificial markup like scores were important only in the socialist days. Those days are now gone forever.

Nope, what you are describing happens only in extreme meritocracy. If you were to take away the support structure of an upper class kid his performance level would not be any better from a kid from a disadvantaged background. A genius being born is not a normal everyday occurrence.

A large section of the lower caste community is not poor and are economically well off. Again, most are not employed in any govt sectors for people to accuse them of living on charity. Most are self-employed. I have just one cousin who works for the govt in my whole extended family.

I raised the point of education with Sreekumar because he particularly brought in the point of children from lower caste dropping off the education ladder even with reserved seat. Yes millions squander away that edge even in upper castes.

 

[Sahasranama]

Nope, what you are describing happens only in extreme meritocracy. If you were to take away the support structure of an upper class kid his performance level would not be any better from a kid from a disadvantaged background. A genius being born is not a normal everyday occurrence.

A large section of the lower caste community is not poor and are economically well off. Again, most are not employed in any govt sectors for people to accuse them of living on charity. Most are self-employed. I have just one cousin who works for the govt in my whole extended family.

I raised the point of education with Sreekumar because he particularly brought in the point of children from lower caste dropping off the education ladder even with reserved seat. Yes millions squander away that edge even in upper castes.

What is Genius but 99% perspiration and 1 % inspiration. It was true then, it is true now.

You can be born with high IQ and you can waste away your life, you can be born with low IQ and you can still make something out of your life. Ambition and courage are the differentiators.

Its been my observation that the greatest hindrance to lower caste people is the lack of courage, not the absence of ambition. That unfortunately is the story of most Indians. high and low caste.

 

[Indrani]

Capitalism, as you want others to believe has, in fact very little if not nothing to do with caste apartheid. When you are emphatically, in your posts repeatedly grouping a set of people, irrespective of their caste hierarchy within the society as a economically underprivileged people you are creating a class who are doing manual scavenging by economic compulsion, in your words the effect of capitalism. Some of you unconsciously and some even consciously ignored and omitted the fact that manual scavenging job has been done by tradition through out history in India and it has become a social identity of a group, not for their impoverished economic structure but social prejudice. That given, even if a person is not engaged in manual scavenging job, he still remains within that social order. Traditional belief and prejudice is the all to be blamed, not capitalism which is a modestly newer and fresh arrival in Indian economy.

I rejected this very explanation because I myself come from the Dalit background and no I do not consider myself as socially underprivileged or suffering from caste apartheid. I only set those who are working in those professions (regardless of caste) in the group of the underprivileged. None of them are doing the work out of compulsion. There is enough free enterprise in India for the person to switch jobs. What stops the person from buying a bunch of bananas and becoming a fruit seller instead of a manual scavenger? Manual scavenging I presume gets good money and that is why these people opt for that job. Say an hour in the shit pit and if paid 1000 or 2000 bucks for that job, there are people who will take it up and then spend the rest of the week without doing anything else.

What is Genius but 99% perspiration and 1 % inspiration. It was true then, it is true now.

You can be born with high IQ and you can waste away your life, you can be born with low IQ and you can still make something out of your life. Ambition and courage are the differentiators.

Its been my observation that the greatest hindrance to lower caste people is the lack of courage, not the absence of ambition. That unfortunately is the story of most Indians. high and low caste.

Your last line negates your earlier argument. There is thankfully no support structure for majority of the society, so they have to rely on meritocracy anyways.

 

[Sahasranama]

Your last line negates your earlier argument. There is thankfully no support structure for majority of the society, so they have to rely on meritocracy anyways.

Not really, the higher caste has a stronger social net so attempts to take greater risks though his courage is low.

The lower caste has a weaker social net so he/she attempts less risks.

Indians in general lack in courage and hence are not Risk takers.

Capitalist societies always feed on meritocracy so that is understood.


I need to clarify that what I mean by the stronger social net of the higher caste is the assets his family hold and the social network which could help him economically too. The old boys network.