India lower caste still removing human waste

[scorpionx]

I rejected this very explanation because I myself come from the Dalit background and no I do not consider myself as socially underprivileged or suffering from caste apartheid. I only set those who are working in those professions (regardless of caste) in the group of the underprivileged. None of them are doing the work out of compulsion. There is enough free enterprise in India for the person to switch jobs. What stops the person from buying a bunch of bananas and becoming a fruit seller instead of a manual scavenger? Manual scavenging I presume gets good money and that is why these people opt for that job. Say an hour in the shit pit and if paid 1000 or 2000 bucks for that job, there are people who will take it up and then spend the rest of the week without doing anything else.

Explaining the pattern of racial segregation of manual scavengers by yours or some other's cases is nothing but deliberate misinterpretation of this matter. We are not discussing SC/STs here; The center of the subject revolves around the untouchables. Even today, although SC/ST has gained some sort of economic freedom in some patches of India in an independent fashion marriage alliance is still not a common phenomenon anywhere in India. Even in the states that enjoys most economically liberated economies, how many belonging to higher castes have been seen getting into a mutually accepted family alliance with a member of a manual scavenger's family? Capitalism, as it is being stressed upon as a savior of the "economically oppressed" untouchables performed very little part in removing socio religious bigotry in Europe as the revolutionary movements inspired by political, social consciousness did.

 

[Indrani]

Not really, the higher caste has a stronger social net so attempts to take greater risks though his courage is low.

The lower caste has a weaker social net so he/she attempts less risks.

Indians in general lack in courage and hence are not Risk takers.

Capitalist societies always feed on meritocracy so that is understood.

Nope. The higher caste got advantage of the social net and hence reaped the benefit of globalization. The lower caste did not have this edge, but every self-employed person is a risk taker. That is the definition of an entrepreneur. Of the 500 million labor pool in India, only 3-4 million are employed in govt jobs or any formal job sector. Rest are all entrepreneurial. In fact, there is no other country in the world with as many entrepreneurs as India.

 

[Sahasranama]

Explaining the pattern of racial segregation of manual scavengers by yours or some other's cases is nothing but deliberate misinterpretation of this matter. We are not discussing SC/STs here; The center of the subject revolves around the untouchables. Even today, although SC/ST has gained some sort of economic freedom in some patches of India in an independent fashion marriage alliance is still not a common phenomenon anywhere in India. Even in the states that enjoys most economically liberated economies, how many belonging to higher castes have been seen getting into a mutually accepted family alliance with a member of a manual scavenger's family? Capitalism, as it is being stressed upon as a savior of the "economically oppressed" untouchables did very little part in removing socio religious bigotry in Europe as the revolutionary movements inspired by political, social consciousness did.

Even in the US no one wants to marry into a Janitors family. .... everybody wants to marry a Kennedy or a Paris hilton.

socio religious bigotry has NOTING to do with capitalism. It has everything to do with human nature.

 

[scorpionx]

Even in the US no one wants to marry into a Janitors family.

socio religious bigotry has NOTING to do with capitalism. It has everything to do with human nature.

The zombie said the same thing,sir.

PS: Good to see you back again, so quickly

 

[Indrani]

Explaining the pattern of racial segregation of manual scavengers by yours or some other's cases is nothing but deliberate misinterpretation of this matter. We are not discussing SC/STs here; The center of the subject revolves around the untouchables. Even today, although SC/ST has gained some sort of economic freedom in some patches of India in an independent fashion marriage alliance is still not a common phenomenon anywhere in India. Even in the states that enjoys most economically liberated economies, how many belonging to higher castes have been seen getting into a mutually accepted family alliance with a member of a manual scavenger's family? Capitalism, as it is being stressed upon as a savior of the "economically oppressed" untouchables did very little part in removing socio religious bigotry in Europe as the revolutionary movements inspired by political, social consciousness did.

Oh there again finally for the communists it all boils down to marriage alliance. For your info, lower caste people also reject getting married into higher caste. People are happy getting married in their own castes as most marriages are arranged marriages and people are looking at it from a compatibility view point. Of course where there is love, there caste barriers are breaking down anyways, and those small percentages of love marriages do happen.

This is a nonsensical argument. Unless you see all whites married to black there is no end to racism. Unless you see all rich people married to poor there is no end to class barriers. Unless you see all educated married to uneducated people, there is no end to elitism. And so on can go your sob story.

 

[scorpionx]

Oh there again finally for the communists it all boils down to marriage alliance. For your info, lower caste people also reject getting married into higher caste. People are happy getting married in their own castes as most marriages are arranged marriages and people are looking at it from a compatibility view point. Of course where there is love, there caste barriers are breaking down anyways, and those small percentages of love marriages do happen.

This is a nonsensical argument. Unless you see all whites married to black there is no end to racism. Unless you see all rich people married to poor there is no end to class barriers. Unless you see all educated married to uneducated people, there is no end to elitism. And so on can go your sob story.

Compatibility view point. How convenient.

 

[Indrani]

Even in the US no one wants to marry into a Janitors family. .... everybody wants to marry a Kennedy or a Paris hilton.

socio religious bigotry has NOTING to do with capitalism. It has everything to do with human nature.

There is no bigotry. That is a very negative way of looking at things. There is only positive bias.

Compatibility view point. How convenient.

Of course. Compatibility is the key. That is why marriages are stable in India unlike the marriages that happen abroad with only sex being the binder. Once the passion dies off, off they go their separate ways.

 

[scorpionx]

Of course. Compatibility is the key. That is why marriages are stable in India unlike the marriages that happen abroad with only sex being the binder. Once the passion dies off, off they go their separate ways.

Wait!! What precisely does a marriage between a economically elevated untouchable with a higher caste lack stability or compatibility? Are you not differing with your preliminary opinions with a great margin now?

 

[Indrani]

Compatibility view point. How convenient.

Since you are such a holier than thou person, I hope you married a rag picker to be your partner so that you could at least on your personal level fight both caste barrier, class barrier, elitism, and all sort of bigotry.

 

[Sahasranama]

Nope. The higher caste got advantage of the social net and hence reaped the benefit of globalization. The lower caste did not have this edge, but every self-employed person is a risk taker. That is the definition of an entrepreneur. Of the 500 million labor pool in India, only 3-4 million are employed in govt jobs or any formal job sector. Rest are all entrepreneurial. In fact, there is no other country in the world with as many entrepreneurs as India.

A Risk taker is defined by his choice. If you become a Risk taker because of a Lack of choice, then its not really a risk is it ?

If you are well educated and get a job and then then chuck it to do business, then you are a risk taker. If you have limited job opportunity and take up a business to feed your family you are not much of a risk taker.

In India today, a govt. job is still the first choice of the majority, followed by a job in an MNC and then a job in the private sector. Doing business is the last choice.

Most people in India are entrepreneurial because they don't have a CHOICE. Given a choice they would run to get Job security and income security. You are making a virtue out of a necessity.

 

[scorpionx]

Since you are such a holier than thou person, I hope you married a rag picker to be your partner so that you could at least on your personal level fight both caste barrier, class barrier, elitism, and all sort of bigotry.

Not a reasonable argument at all. I did not preach the social equality of the manual scavengers, you did.

 

[Indrani]

Wait!! What precisely does a marriage between a economically elevated untouchable with a higher caste lack stability or compatibility? Are you not differing with your preliminary opinions with a great margin now?

Yes, because it is not only about money. There are traditions, outlooks, temperament, and so many things to be considered.

 

[scorpionx]

Yes, because it is not only about money. There are traditions, outlooks, temperament, and so many things to be considered.

Hmm..the factors that had been tactfully ignored in the first few pages are arriving now.

 

[Indrani]

A Risk taker is defined by his choice. If you become a Risk taker because of a Lack of choice, then its not really a risk is it ?

If you are well educated and get a job and then then chuck it to do business, then you are a risk taker. If you have limited job opportunity and take up a business to feed your family you are not much of a risk taker.

In India today, a govt. job is still the first choice of the majority, followed by a job in an MNC and then a job in the private sector. Doing business is the last choice.

Most people in India are entrepreneurial because they don't have a CHOICE. Given a choice they would run to get Job security and income security. You are making a virtue out of a necessity.

Please unless you are equating entrepreneurs with suicidal maniacs no one becomes a risk taker for the heck of it. They are always weighing in the probability of success.

A person out there forging out his own way regardless without a safety net is an entrepreneur. Most of the rich in India are those who lacked formal education and came from that kind of background. Dhirubhai Ambani for example.

You are taking away all credit from people who actually live their lives without safety net because they did not happen to be born with a golden spoon.

Not a reasonable argument at all. I did not preach the social equality of the manual scavengers, you did.

I did not either. Only I would not deem them to be born for a life of such, but if that is what they have made of themselves I am okay with it and I wont go screaming caste or class prejudice.

Hmm..the factors that had been tactfully ignored in the first few pages are arriving now.

They were never ignored. As I said where love happens, people marry across caste and class barriers. Where it does not, there is no reason for inter-caste or inter-class or inter-religious marriages because of too many incompatibility issues.

 

[Sahasranama]

There is no bigotry. That is a very negative way of looking at things. There is only positive bias.

Of course. Compatibility is the key. That is why marriages are stable in India unlike the marriages that happen abroad with only sex being the binder. Once the passion dies off, off they go their separate ways.

If there is a positive bias then logically there has to exist negative bias. If humans practice bigotry they also practice empathy. Everything exist in balance.

Let women get equal empowerment in India and then let us see if marriages remain stable. Even today the onus on keeping the family together is on the women. That way Indian men are lucky. I realised this they day I got married. Till then I used to think like you.

I happen to think Women do an disproportionate amount of work in India as compared to men and get paid too little for it as compared to men. Now I am not talking about the urban elite, but the vast majority of population in India.