India could test Kaveri engine on Tejas by end-2013

[acetophenol]

I thought Rafale can super cruise even without them.

Imagine Snemca M88(current rafale engine) and Kaveri has same weight.
Kaveri produces 52.02kn thrust without AB and 81.02 kn with AB. So twin engines will produce 104.04 kn thrust without AB and 162 kn with AB opposed to M88's 50 x 2=100 kn without AB and 75 x 2= 150 kn with AB. So Rafale will be even more better with kaveri than M88 given it sheds some weight. Correct me if i am wrong!

 

[IndoUS]

Imagine Snemca M88(current rafale engi
ne) and Kaveri has same weight.
Kaveri produces 52.02kn thrust without AB and 81.02 kn with AB. So twin engines will produce 104.04 kn thrust without AB and 162 kn with AB opposed to M88's 50 x 2=100 kn without AB and 75 x 2= 150 kn with AB. So Rafale will be even more better with kaveri than M88 given it sheds some weight. Correct me if i am wrong!

Wouldn't the change require some structural changes?

 

[Gessler]

Wouldn't the change require some structural changes?

Can probably be managed by HAL while license-producing Raffy, albeit with French assistance.

I thought Rafale can super cruise even without them.

Im not very convinced of Raffy's supercruising ability with those 75kN M88-2 engines.
Having a 82kN engine would allow upto 1.2 Mach supercruising efficiently IMO.

 

[Black Widow]

Wouldn't the change require some structural changes?

yes , but wouldn't be tough job. Rafale used GE 404 engine in past (before M88 was made), M88 was made to fit without much redesign.

On same note, LCA used GE404IN engine and Kaveri is designed to fit without much redesign..

Dimention wise M88, GE404 and Kaveri is similar, so slight redesign can do the workk...


Its my personal view.. experts can say better,,,,

 

[Sergi]

Imagine Snemca M88(current rafale engine) and Kaveri has same weight.
Kaveri produces 52.02kn thrust without AB and 81.02 kn with AB. So twin engines will produce 104.04 kn thrust without AB and 162 kn with AB opposed to M88's 50 x 2=100 kn without AB and 75 x 2= 150 kn with AB. So Rafale will be even more better with kaveri than M88 given it sheds some weight. Correct me if i am wrong!

Please answer this ^^^
@sancho
@DrSomnath999

 

[sancho]

Couple of months back there were reports that the Kaveri project has been shelved, not WTF is this then?

It is de-linked from the LCA project currently, which means that IAF will only procure MK1 and MK2 versions without it. However, the long term solution is, to integrate the Kaveri K10 into LCA MK1s to replace the GE 404 engines during MLU. Therefore, you need to integrate and test Kaveri engine into LCA too and that can be done even with K9, I only hope they do it with the engine beeing mature enough and not because of pride reasons to show off that the Indian engine could be used in the Indian fighter. If a crash results because of such a silly issue, it would be more than shamefull!

I thought Rafale can super cruise even without them.

Rafale is said to Supercruise with the current engine, 4 x AAMs and a centerline fuel tank

So Rafale will be even more better with kaveri than M88 given it sheds some weight. Correct me if i am wrong!

No, because you left out the weight of the engines! M88 weighs around 900Kg, while K9 is reported with up to 1100Kg, so the 2 kN advantage (if it has it), are way too less to counter the much higher weight.

 

[acetophenol]

It is de-linked from the LCA project currently, which means that IAF will only procure MK1 and MK2 versions without it. However, the long term solution is, to integrate the Kaveri K10 into LCA MK1s to replace the GE 404 engines during MLU. Therefore, you need to integrate and test Kaveri engine into LCA too and that can be done even with K9, I only hope they do it with the engine beeing mature enough and not because of pride reasons to show off that the Indian engine could be used in the Indian fighter. If a crash results because of such a silly issue, it would be more than shamefull!



Rafale is said to Supercruise with the current engine, 4 x AAMs and a centerline fuel tank



No, because you left out the weight of the engines! M88 weighs around 900Kg, while K9 is reported with up to 1100Kg, so the 2 kN advantage (if it has it), are way too less to counter the much higher weight.

I did consider the weight,that why i said "if kaveri sheds some weight"

 

[sancho]

I did consider the weight,that why i said "if kaveri sheds some weight"

Ok, but it must be not "some", but a big amount of weight! The M88-Eco engine with 60kN dry and 90kN AB thrust had a weight of around 1000Kg, just to point out the difference.

 

[acetophenol]

Ok, but it must be not "some", but a big amount of weight! The M88-Eco engine with 60kN dry and 90kN AB thrust had a weight of around 1000Kg, just to point out the difference.

Whats the status of M88 Eco?

 

[帅的一匹]

I don't think cut weight without reducing thrust power is not gonna be possible in Kaveri case, might be the improved type.

Remember Infia fighter engine is lagging behind china. Long way to go ya!

 

[KRAIT]

I don't think cut weight without reducing thrust power is not gonna be possible in Kaveri case, might be the improved type.

Remember Infia fighter engine is lagging behind china. Long way to go ya!

So lagging behind China means we can't develop a good one ? I think working with SNECMA can really help Kaveri program. No need of comparison.

 

[帅的一匹]

Not that simple as you put there.

 

[KRAIT]

Not that simple as you put there.

Not simple ? Agreed. Since India is behind China, it can't do, weird logic. Just pointing out wrong argument which is not required in discussion on this thread.

 

[帅的一匹]

I'm not gonna put a comparison in this thread, both countries need work harder to achieve something in the long run. Had Kaveri engine been tested on any fighter until now?

 

[Yogi]

I'm not gonna put a comparison in this thread, both countries need work harder to achieve something in the long run. Had Kaveri engine been tested on any fighter until now?

AFAIK It has been tested on some Russian cargo aircraft but not on fighter aircraft....