India could test Kaveri engine on Tejas by end-2013

[Kloitra]

No, because you left out the weight of the engines! M88 weighs around 900Kg, while K9 is reported with up to 1100Kg, so the 2 kN advantage (if it has it), are way too less to counter the much higher weight.

Weight is not that much of a problem. 2 kN means 200kgf, that is addition of 2 kN with 200 kg of weight basically increases twr, for a less than 1 twr plane (Rafale, loaded config). The benefits of M88 are as listed by DrSomnath999.

well mate

M88 2 has 75KN with AB but M88 3 has 90KN with AB yes M88 eco is slight heavier

but things that makes M88 engine superior is
1)it's better engine TBO KAVErI :less

2) supercruise engine, kaveri :NO

3) with 2 cooling channels far less IR signature KAVERI :NO

4) it's scenema FADEC is much superior to kaveri

To add to it:

5) A high bypass ratio makes M88 more efficient compared to Kaveri. Although they are equally efficient on dry, it becomes visible on afterburners.

One of the problems with Kaveri that I know of is use of high pressure ratio. GTRE has troubles with metallurgy. And they want Kaveri to have greater HPR. Result, higher temp at compressor blades. More wear and tear. Lesser durability. They compensate it with more weight.

 

[DrSomnath999]

^^ IAF already rejected such proposal since DRDO will not be contributing much to Kaveri then, if Snecma steps in.

well but who is the loser in the end DRDO or Scenema ??? no it's the IAF .See I want a kaveri to be installed but the progress is clearly in front of your eyes ,i dont want to elaborate on this

things won't magically improve with kaveri in a day.. the core of Kaveri wasn't designed to provide that much thrust.. PERIOD.

if we need something "indigenous" we need to come up with something new with FULL EXPERIENCE of KAveri thrown in !!

but that is not going to happen so easily without an external player help

 

[DrSomnath999]

To add to it:

5) A high bypass ratio makes M88 more efficient compared to Kaveri. Although they are equally efficient on dry, it becomes visible on afterburners.

One of the problems with Kaveri that I know of is use of high pressure ratio. GTRE has troubles with metallurgy. And they want Kaveri to have greater HPR. Result, higher temp at compressor blades. More wear and tear. Lesser durability. They compensate it with more weight.

there are many more points to add i just point a few

any ways thats another point u mentioned

 

[Kloitra]

there are many more points to add i just point a few

any ways thats another point u mentioned

I know, I just added what I had at tip of my tongue! Goes to prove what a lousy job they are doing.

Anyways, do you know the status of single crystal blades for the engine? As far as I know, they had a little progress few years back. What is the current status? Is durability still a problem? To make it concise, what is affecting its ability to supercruise?

From frontierindia indian-developments-in-materials-for-military-aero-engines

HAL has also acquired capability to manufacture DS and single crystal castings of turbine airfoils for Sukhoi aircraft engine AL31FP.

 

[faithfulguy]

Weight is not that much of a problem. 2 kN means 200kgf, that is addition of 2 kN with 200 kg of weight basically increases twr, for a less than 1 twr plane (Rafale, loaded config). The benefits of M88 are as listed by DrSomnath999.



To add to it:

5) A high bypass ratio makes M88 more efficient compared to Kaveri. Although they are equally efficient on dry, it becomes visible on afterburners.

One of the problems with Kaveri that I know of is use of high pressure ratio. GTRE has troubles with metallurgy. And they want Kaveri to have greater HPR. Result, higher temp at compressor blades. More wear and tear. Lesser durability. They compensate it with more weight.

India should cut the losses on Kavari. Don't put another cent into it until India is further developed. If India is ready to develop a plane like LCA in 10 years, than its ready to dive into engine development. Otherwise, focus on getting LCA to work first instead of putting Kavari in there.

 

[timetravel]

India should cut the losses on Kavari. Don't put another cent into it until India is further developed. If India is ready to develop a plane like LCA in 10 years, than its ready to dive into engine development. Otherwise, focus on getting LCA to work first instead of putting Kavari in there.

we will work on both LCA and Kaveri. whats your probs mate. jealous.

 

[fast]

Still beating on a dead horse? That's not bad to siphon more money out of it.

 

[kurup]

Still beating on a dead horse? That's not bad to siphon more money out of it.

Looks like the dead horse has more working cells than your brain .

 

[rashtriya.rifles]

well but who is the loser in the end DRDO or Scenema ??? no it's the IAF .See I want a kaveri to be installed but the progress is clearly in front of your eyes ,i dont want to elaborate on this





but that is not going to happen so easily without an external player help

Yes.. please bring it, by all means.. BUT the point is, kaveri in its present config is a failure as a jet engine.. We obviously can use it for our UCAVs and Cruise Missiles etc..

With the AMCA shaping up.. now is the apt time to go for a powerful engine with external help !!

 

[AADHAAR]

India should cut the losses on Kavari. Don't put another cent into it until India is further developed. If India is ready to develop a plane like LCA in 10 years, than its ready to dive into engine development. Otherwise, focus on getting LCA to work first instead of putting Kavari in there.

China should cut the losses on WS-10. Don't put another cent into it until China .... blah .... blah ....

 

[fast]

I thought kaveri engine program for tejas was scrapped.

Some corrupted people need to keep a dead program open for more money, thus the continuation of a dead program. However, no matter how hard they beat on it, they can't revive a dead horse to make it run again.

 

[JayAtl]

Some corrupted people need to keep a dead program open for more money, thus the continuation of a dead program. However, no matter how hard they beat on it, they can't revive a dead horse to make it run again.

Is that apply to Chinese engine too? I see you guys are buying more Russian made , even as recently

 

[fast]

Is that apply to Chinese engine too? I see you guys are buying more Russian made , even as recently

You asked the wrong guy. Go ask the Chinese members. We built all our engines and so far no one can match ours. All I know is that Indian engine program sucked so badly after so long that it died a untimely death.

 

[JayAtl]

You asked the wrong guy. Go ask the Chinese members. We built all our engines and so far no one can match ours. All I know is that Indian engine program sucked so badly after so long that it died a untimely death.

you are a Chinese masking as an american and we have known that for a long time. and if " untimely death", if so then the news posted would be clear indicator of that being a false notion.

 

[fast]

you are a Chinese masking as an american and we have known that for a long time. and if " untimely death", if so then the news posted would be clear indicator of that being a false notion.

Whatever fits your imagination; I don't care. It still doesn't alter the fact that Indians suck at producing a working engine. The posted news is just a clear indicator of Indians beating a dead horse.