Kaveri engine will not power Tejas MK-1 nor AMCA

[SQ8]

Well yes, zen master, thank you for rubbing it in our faces. No ranges here, no real guns either.

As for ToT, what it should really be called is M-ToT. For examples Thales has officially defined its ToT obligation to be to provide the rotables for its components. Best of luck eking out an ECM/ESM system out of that.

@Oscar Although what do you think of the notion of go it alone ab initio engine development (Kaveri) to begin with? We achieved much but still fell short. Its honestly painful in a sense to see it not being put to operational use and yet I couldn't help but nod when it was officially de-linked from Tejas all the way back in 08-09.

The Chinese are much nicer than that to us then. Going it alone with such a complex and demanding engineering project such as Jet engine sounds like a bad idea unless you are inventing it. After all, it took Frank Whittle and his folks to start a trend that led to the point where Kaveri was started some 50 years or so.
Even then if India insisted on reinventing the wheel, well that seems odd. Considering that at the height of the cold war, India could have asked the USSR to give it the ToT of say ..the Khatchaturov R-35 .

 

[he-man]

Did Hari sahib call you a false flagger in the J-15 argument?

Not just hari.
Har aira gaira hi ilzaam laga raha haieek:

 

[he-man]

The Chinese are much nicer than that to us then. Going it alone with such a complex and demanding engineering project such as Jet engine sounds like a bad idea unless you are inventing it. After all, it took Frank Whittle and his folks to start a trend that led to the point where Kaveri was started some 50 years or so.
Even then if India insisted on reinventing the wheel, well that seems odd. Considering that at the height of the cold war, India could have asked the USSR to give it the ToT of say ..the Khatchaturov R-35 .

Not to forget we started designing a vce instead of a more conventional one

 

[Dillinger]

The Chinese are much nicer than that to us then. Going it alone with such a complex and demanding engineering project such as Jet engine sounds like a bad idea unless you are inventing it. After all, it took Frank Whittle and his folks to start a trend that led to the point where Kaveri was started some 50 years or so.
Even then if India insisted on reinventing the wheel, well that seems odd. Considering that at the height of the cold war, India could have asked the USSR to give it the ToT of say ..the Khatchaturov R-35 .

I don't know. There are compelling arguments that in many ways we could have never really gleaned any critical tech from the established countries but then I often wonder why help was not sought for at least project management, why the basic infra required for engine development was not set up. Have you noticed that we end up developing the required infrastructure generally after the 1st prototype of the concerned article has already been fabricated. Its almost as if we want to cut ourselves down to size.

Honestly, if the Kaveri is carefully handled and the project consolidated then it will provide dividends much later on. As to what the MoD will do in said regard, no one really knows.

In some cases the lessons have been learnt, before we ventured into ambitious projects such as the high speed test demonstrator vehicle we did lay down the foundations of a hypersonic wind tunnel. But such initiatives are rare.

 

[sancho]

its aviation where MoD is keen to retain design expertise in its paws.

Again not true, which should be visible by the fact that FGFA and MTA are not designed by us, that they invited foreign vendors for the design of LCA and later the navalisation of N-LCA..., the problem is how far ADA or HAL would use such JVs to their advantage. ADA has very low interest in it and even HAL is showing their attitudes by having a monopoly. But then again, where is the alternative? There is no private Indian vendor with enough design and development experience in the aero field, which makes them dependent on JVs too. NAL and Mahindra seems to work well on the civil JV, so it is possible to do it together, rather than having only PSUs, or only privat companies as solutions.

Once again, HAL lives in the real world... Please do explain to me what it takes to pitch a concept. Dfmea for HTT 40 ...

We have discussed HTT40 to death, so lets leave that. The point was, that HAL should take on ADA/DRDO or even foreign vendors in competitions or developments, that the forces actually want or need, to show they can do it, instead of taking the comfort of the monopoly they had for years and keep focusing on project they want to push through the monopoly only. They are pissed now, that they can't use the monopoly on HTT 40s anymore, they most likely will be pissed if the go for an IMRH when the forces reject it, because they have no requirement anymore (after IAF filled it's requirement with M17s and IN/ICG will do it with similar class forreign helicopters) and they will be even more pissed when they follow the plan to develop an advanced trainer, when the forces surely won't buy it after the Hawk too.
Competing ADA/DRDO on an AMCA on the other side would help HAL much more, once because show that they are better than ADA in design, just like they might be able to show that they can manage projects better than DRDO. AMCA is only in concept stage, HAL can design it, based on FGFA, even with Sukhoi as a supporting partner. They can use the commonality of parts and capabilities, to show a much easier and more feaseable concept than what ADA/DRDO has in mind. So why not take this chance?

Actually I don't think Sancho likes him much either.

No I don't, I can't stand the way he present him when he is on a foreign trip. The way he desses, the way he speaks english...but that are my personal likes or dislikes about him, which has no importance to his work as a DM, or the work of the MoD in general.
I simply don't belong to the people that blame politicians or government for everything, because it's the simple way, but critizise them when needed and give them credit for the things that were good too!!!
It was funny to read the BJP manifesto on defence manufacturing and to read that they actually will go on with most of what the current MoD or Antony did so far and don't come up with the radical change of policy that many confuse them to do, because EVERYTHING MoD or Antony did so far was sooooo bad.
I want to see progress in Indian defence, just like anybody else, but I don't see blind patriotism, finding excuses for PSUs and Indian scientists, let alone privatisation as the only solution as logical and suitable ways for India to get better. I prefer to look at things from both / all sides and there are problems on all sides of the defence, so we must find the best middle way and not just jump from one side to the other.

Sandy and I agree on many things, but when I take on HAL for their mistakes, he sees things a bit one sided.

 

[armchairPrivate]

That way it is going, the kaveri or whatever won't power my tablet.

 

[MilSpec]

Sandy and I agree on many things, but when I take on HAL for their mistakes, he sees things a bit one sided.

Spot On!

Oh u Chinese hitman,...... Get a real flag of your country: dongrilla.

Lol

What now?