If Allah(SWT) sent the Mahdi next year, would you follow him?

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I am sure you would love him to be a benglali........

 

[M. Sarmad]

بسم اللہ الرحمٰن الرحیم
The Quran is the highest authority, it is the absolute truth and it is Al Furqan, and sits in judgement of the Ahadith.
To keep this reply relatively short I'll only briefly address the mention of Hz Isa (Jesus, son of Mary) in the Quran.

Any Muslim will know the story of Hz Isa (a.s). He was sent to the Israelites. As was their defiantly disobedient nature they rejected him as the prophet and as the Messiah and tried to crucify him.
But they could not, as Allah says in the Quran.

And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but it was made to appear to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.(An Nisa 4:157-158)
Now it is clear that Jesus was not killed rather raised unto Allah. But Quran also tells us that every soul must taste death, hence Jesus WILL return to live the rest of his life.

Now what is the condition today? The Jews have rejected Jesus and the Christians have taken him as a God. But Allah goes further on to say,

And there is none from the People of the Scripture but that he will surely believe in Jesus before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection he will be against them a witness.( An Nisa 4:159)
These are the clear verses of Quran that make it evident that Jesus, son of Mary, will return to this Earth as the Messiah, he will complete his remaining life and he will make clear the Truth for the Jews and the Christians. And then will his death approach.
سبحان الله
How beautiful and comprehensive is the Quran. Sadly this Ummah has abandoned and betrayed the Quran. Then there are those who have never picked up the Quran yet they have the courage to speak as they are the absolute authority on the subject.

So, after so many bold claims regarding your deep understanding of the Holy Qur'an, this is the best you have been able to come up with?? Seriously, mate? Anyone even with rudimentary knowledge/understanding of Qur'an (or of Arabic language) knows that the Quranic verses you have quoted here do NOT mention the Second coming of Jesus.

As for the first two verses you quoted, Islam categorically rejects the Christian dogma of the death of Jesus (a.s) on the cross and his resurrection. The next (4:158) denotes the elevation of Jesus (a.s) to the realm of God's Special Grace - a blessing in which all Prophets partake - as is evident from 19:57 where the verb rafa'nahu ("we exalted him") is used with regard to the Prophet Idris (a.s). Nowhere in the Holy Qur'an is there any warrant for the belief that God has "taken up" Jesus (a.s) bodily.

As for the third verse you quoted, you have conveniently translated/interpreted "before his death" to mean "before the death of Jesus" whereas the context of the verse makes it abundantly clear that before his death means before the death of every Jew or Christian the verse is talking about. And there is none from the People of the Scripture but that he will surely believe in Jesus before his death... The Qur'an tells us repeatedly that at the time of the death of a person, the truth is revealed to him. Now read again, carefully. Scholars who have interpreted "his" in this verse to mean "Jesus" quote Ahadith to support their claim. But our discussion is about what the Qur'an itself states and there is absolutely NO mention of the second coming of Jesus in the Qur'an.

Next time, before claiming that 'others' have never bothered to read the Holy Qur'an and know nothing about it, make sure you do your homework properly so that you don't end up making yourself look like an absolute idiot again.

Regards.

 

[THE GREEN MAN]

So, after so many bold claims regarding your deep understanding of the Holy Qur'an, this is the best you have been able to come up with?? Seriously, mate? Anyone even with rudimentary knowledge/understanding of Qur'an (or of Arabic language) knows that the Quranic verses you have quoted here do NOT mention the Second coming of Jesus.

As for the first two verses you quoted, Islam categorically rejects the Christian dogma of the death of Jesus (a.s) on the cross and his resurrection. The next (4:158) denotes the elevation of Jesus (a.s) to the realm of God's Special Grace - a blessing in which all Prophets partake - as is evident from 19:57 where the verb rafa'nahu ("we exalted him") is used with regard to the Prophet Idris (a.s). Nowhere in the Holy Qur'an is there any warrant for the belief that God has "taken up" Jesus (a.s) bodily.

As for the third verse you quoted, you have conveniently translated/interpreted "before his death" to mean "before the death of Jesus" whereas the context of the verse makes it abundantly clear that before his death means before the death of every Jew or Christian the verse is talking about. And there is none from the People of the Scripture but that he will surely believe in Jesus before his death... The Qur'an tells us repeatedly that at the time of the death of a person, the truth is revealed to him. Now read again, carefully. Scholars who have interpreted "his" in this verse to mean "Jesus" quote Ahadith to support their claim. But our discussion is about what the Qur'an itself states and there is absolutely NO mention of the second coming of Jesus in the Qur'an.

Next time, before claiming that 'others' have never bothered to read the Holy Qur'an and know nothing about it, make sure you do your homework properly so that you don't end up making yourself look like an absolute idiot again.

Regards.

Hahahaha your progressive enlightened interpretations are quite amusing.
Let me guess, you googled the verse and quickly came up with your fitting response. 10/10 for effort though.

Try to actually read the Quran before (4:157) and Allah is narrating the story of Hz Isa. Christians don't even come here, Allah is talking about Bani Israel, their rejection of the message of Hz Isa and how they boasted to have killed him like they did with previous messengers. I don't know if you're blind but I'll quote it again entirely
"And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain."

Subhan Allah for this verse because it addresses you too.

Now (4:158) follows immediately to explain what happened if they in fact did not martyr Hz Isa? Allah raised him unto Himself.

WHERE DOES ALLAH USE رفع IN THE QURAN TO MEAN ACTUALLY RAISED?
Quran (88:18)
"And at the sky- how it is raised".

And to address your final point which is truly laughable. Using the grammar of the English translation to prove your point is real commendable wow. Why then did you not go on to say that the Quran follows onto say that 'he' will be a witness against them. So you mean to say that a disbelieving Jew and a Christian will be a witness against himself on the day of resurrection! , since 'him' refers to the person, 'he' also refers to the person. Ok makes perfect sense.

The lengths someone will go in twisting the Quran just for the sake of his Arrogance. Go read the Quran, read the Hadith and read the Tafsir before you subject the Quran to your whims and wishful thinking.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Hahahaha your progressive enlightened interpretations are quite amusing.
Let me guess, you googled the verse and quickly came up with your fitting response. 10/10 for effort though.

Duh!
I have been discussing such topics here on PDF and elsewhere for many years now.
A few posts here from 2014:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/forgotten-heroes-sir-zafrullah-khan-rh.299610/page-8#post-5268054
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/forgotten-heroes-sir-zafrullah-khan-rh.299610/page-9#post-5270928

And the 'enlightened' interpretation I am quoting here is that of Allama Muhammad Asad, Jinnah's religious advisor as per popular belief. Again a post from 2014:

His main focus was on the primacy of Quran over any all other sources such as Hadith and Sunna as he felt that Quran had been over-ruled by secondary sources. He did not believe in second coming of Jesus for example!!

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/islamization-of-jinnah.301462/page-11#post-5313838

And this one from 2017:

Agreed, the concept of second coming of Jesus predates Islam, the Holy Qur'an makes no clear mention of it, and this concept, like many other judeo-christian concepts, crept into Islam much later, through secondary sources. Even Imam Malik in his Muwatta (the first supposedly authentic Hadith collection) makes no mention of the second coming of Jesus.

As for Imam Mahdi, the Holy Qur'an doesn't mention him either. He (by name) hasn't been mentioned even in the Sahihain. Contrary to the popular belief, The Holy Qur'an doesn't promise/mention the mythical global Islamic Utopian Kingdom (before end times) which the Muslims talk about so much.

Now stop embarrassing yourself...

And to address your final point which is truly laughable. Using the grammar of the English translation to prove your point is real commendable wow. Why then did you not go on to say that the Quran follows onto say that 'he' will be a witness against them. So you mean to say that a disbelieving Jew and a Christian will be a witness against himself on the day of resurrection! , since 'him' refers to the person, 'he' also refers to the person. Ok makes perfect sense.

Again, stop embarrassing yourself and read the previous post again, carefully

 

[THE GREEN MAN]

Duh!
I have been discussing such topics here on PDF and elsewhere for many years now.
A few posts here from 2014:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/forgotten-heroes-sir-zafrullah-khan-rh.299610/page-8#post-5268054
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/forgotten-heroes-sir-zafrullah-khan-rh.299610/page-9#post-5270928

Now stop embarrassing yourself...



Again, stop embarrassing yourself and read the previous post again, carefully

Having a glimpse of what you have to offer I rather not waste my time reading what junk you may have spread on other threads.
" Lol stop embarrassing yourself"

Wow I guess it was that easy.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Having a glimpse of what you have to offer I rather not waste my time reading what junk you may have spread on other threads.
" Lol stop embarrassing yourself"

Wow I guess it was that easy.

Don't expect your lies and BS to go unchallenged here on PDF.
Now, crawl back under your rock

 

[THE GREEN MAN]

Don't expect your lies and BS to go unchallenged here on PDF.
Now, crawl back under your rock

I believe I played my part in helping out and any sincere reader will spot out your intellectual dishonesty. I seek refuge from twisting the Quran to suit my narrative.
God bless

 

[M. Sarmad]

.... I seek refuge from twisting the Quran to suit my narrative.
God bless

But that exactly is what you are doing here (unintentionally maybe). There is no mention of the Second Coming of Jesus in the Holy Qur'an yet you are hell-bent on trying to prove otherwise. If it's not "twisting the Qur'an to suit your narrative", I don't know what is. God Bless

I believe I played my part in helping out and any sincere reader will spot out your intellectual dishonesty.

I am not being dishonest, intellectually or otherwise. I only say what I believe is true. May Allah guide us all.

 

[VCheng]

I am not being dishonest, intellectually or otherwise. I only say what I believe is true. May Allah guide us all.

Do you believe it is true that religious threads are a violation of PDF rues?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Do you believe it is true that religious threads are a violation of PDF rues?

Some animals are more equal than others

 

[VCheng]

Some animals are more equal than others

Isn't that the story of PDF and the country too. What a pity!

 

[THE GREEN MAN]

But that exactly is what you are doing here (unintentionally maybe). There is no mention of the Second Coming of Jesus in the Holy Qur'an yet you are hell-bent on proving otherwise. If it's not "twisting the Qur'an to suit your narrative", I don't know what is. God Bless



I am not being dishonest, intellectually or otherwise. I only say what I believe is true. May Allah guide us all.

The reader may choose to believe the teachings of the Prophet, and how the companions, Tabieen and the Tafsir writers explained the Quran.
Or how the Enlightened mind of Mr.Sarmad chooses to loosely interpret the Quran based on English grammar among other things known only to him.

Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab is impressed. Step aside Bin Salman, there is a new contender in town.

 

[M. Sarmad]

The reader may choose to believe the teachings of the Prophet, and how the companions, Tabieen and the Tafsir writers explained the Quran.
Or how the Enlightened mind of Mr.Sarmad chooses to loosely interpret the Quran based on English grammar among other things known only to him.

Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab is impressed. Step aside Bin Salman, there is a new contender in town.

A few corrections:

It's not based on English grammar but on "whom the Arabic pronoun in the clause قَبْلَ مَوْتِهِ (before his death) refers to"

And it's not my own interpretation, Read commentaries by Al-Tabari and Al Suyuti, this opinion had been held by many Sahaba and Tabieen as well. It's not even Muhammad Asad's own interpretation.

Try again

 

[THE GREEN MAN]

If any Muslim is following all this, there's still a lot more to say on this from the Quran and Hadith. Let me know if anyone wants to hear it. No point in continuing if there's no benefit from it.
(Some of you must be sighing in relief [emoji1] )

 

[litman]

So, after so many bold claims regarding your deep understanding of the Holy Qur'an, this is the best you have been able to come up with?? Seriously, mate? Anyone even with rudimentary knowledge/understanding of Qur'an (or of Arabic language) knows that the Quranic verses you have quoted here do NOT mention the Second coming of Jesus.

As for the first two verses you quoted, Islam categorically rejects the Christian dogma of the death of Jesus (a.s) on the cross and his resurrection. The next (4:158) denotes the elevation of Jesus (a.s) to the realm of God's Special Grace - a blessing in which all Prophets partake - as is evident from 19:57 where the verb rafa'nahu ("we exalted him") is used with regard to the Prophet Idris (a.s). Nowhere in the Holy Qur'an is there any warrant for the belief that God has "taken up" Jesus (a.s) bodily.

As for the third verse you quoted, you have conveniently translated/interpreted "before his death" to mean "before the death of Jesus" whereas the context of the verse makes it abundantly clear that before his death means before the death of every Jew or Christian the verse is talking about. And there is none from the People of the Scripture but that he will surely believe in Jesus before his death... The Qur'an tells us repeatedly that at the time of the death of a person, the truth is revealed to him. Now read again, carefully. Scholars who have interpreted "his" in this verse to mean "Jesus" quote Ahadith to support their claim. But our discussion is about what the Qur'an itself states and there is absolutely NO mention of the second coming of Jesus in the Qur'an.

Next time, before claiming that 'others' have never bothered to read the Holy Qur'an and know nothing about it, make sure you do your homework properly so that you don't end up making yourself look like an absolute idiot again.

Regards.

if a person doesnt want to go beyond the literal meanings of the Quranic verses then it is his choice. no one can force him do that. even in Quran it is said that some people only go after the literal meanings. ghamidi school of thought is creating doubt in everything related to islamic escatotology i.e. second coming of jesus, coming of mehdi and ghazwa e hind. i partly agree to only his ghazwa e hind part otherwise he seems to be totally wrong about second coming of jesus. he negates all the hadiths about second coming of jesus and the bible but quotes bible in one of his lecture regarding the age of hazrat Esa. if there is no second coming of hazrat esa then who will kill dajjal? then these people should also reject dajjal as it is not mentioned in quran. it is in hadiths only and in previous scriptures but then they do talk about dajjal. some scholars are tasked to create doubts in the minds of muslim masses even when somethings are very clear. i think such people think that when Quran was sent through the Prophet Muhammad SAW he only narrated it to his companions and they wrote the verses and thats all. they fail to understand that the first teacher of Quran was the Prophet Muhammad SAW himself and his instructions were in hadiths which many "learned" scholars dont consider correct so they go only for literal meaning of Quran hence misguiding the masses. actually scholars use Quran and hadiths for supporting their own agenda when it suits them. . there is plenty of debate about this issue of second coming of hazrat Esa between some educated scholars on youtube and if one listens to it it will become very clear in our minds that who is talking with logic and who is just trying to create doubts for his selfish agenda. but then the "patwari" attitude doesnt exist in politics only. it exists in religion as well even strongly. people are not ready to call sharifs as thieves even when it is so obvious how such people can change their views about something which is so obvious.

as far as muwatta imam malik is concerned it is not in sahai sitta it means it is not considered authentic by the early islamic scholars.

ghamidi quotes bible when it suits him but doesnt mentions about bible when it talks about second coming of hazrat Esa. this is called hypocrisy.