If Allah(SWT) sent the Mahdi next year, would you follow him?

[Placemat]

Yours is just a capitalist cannabis commercial

Did you know tgat cannabis and such hallucinogens used to bring enlightenment and helped creating several prophets over the millennia?

That Mahdi should be nationalist Pakistani.

He has to speak Punjabi too. Sada haq aithe rakh

What if he is a Hindu

 

[Tps43]

Hindu

Can’t be

 

[litman]

Bro

Plz correct me if I am wrong... isn’t Ghamidi a Qadyani?

i dont know. i am not a mufti and i dont issue fatwa but i know one thing and that is all scholars make errors. some by chance and some deliberately. its up to the listeners. the biggest mistake we make is that when we start following a particular scholar we take his every word nothing but the truth and we follow him blindly. we need to make our base of religious understanding strong and then when we come across which is something different from our understanding the path should be to do more research on the subject with open mind and pray Allah for showing me the right path and trust me you will get His help. but unfortunately most of our discussions are meant to dominate the other and trying to prove that i know more then you or my logic is stronger then yours. such debates are counter productive. hazrat imam ahmad bin hanbal once pointed towards the grave of the Prophet Muhammad and said you can have difference of opinion with every human other then the one in this grave. but that difference of opinion should be for the sake of knowledge and not for proving one to be better then the other or for using religion for personal agenda. i listen to many scholars and i have difference of opinion with almost all of them. but still i do listen to them and try to get everything good what they say. overall ghamidi is a great scholar but the points at which i differ from him are the coming of mehdi, second coming of hazrat esa, establishment of khilafa at the end times as he negates all these three and he strongly supports UNO despite the very obvious injustices being done in the world through UNO.

First off, I quite appreciate the way you have put forward your arguments. Each of us can always learn something by listening to another person's viewpoint, if we just learn to listen with an open mind.

I would like to point it to you that it's not just the Ghamidi school of thought that does not believe in the second coming of Jesus. Many before him, including Salafis (real Aslaf as well as their modern-day self-proclaimed followers), Grand Muftis of Al-Azhar (including Muhammad Shaltout), Sheikh Muhammad Abduh (Grand Mufti of Egypt), Allama Muhammad Asad (Religious advisor to Jinnah), Sir Syed Amed Khan, Allama Iqbal, Abdulkalam Azad, Ubaidullah Sindhi, besides others, have held exactly the same viewpoint.

As for the literal meaning of the Quranic verses, no doubt, the Holy Qur'an has concealed meanings and there may be more than one interpretations of some Quranic verses. But one should not insist that only a certain interpretation (that he himself follows) is correct and all others are incorrect. For example, verse 159 of chapter 4 does not mention the second coming of Jesus but some scholars have interpreted it (based on some Ahadith) to hint at such an event that is likely to take place near the end times (as per their understanding). However, by many of the Sahaba and Tabieen (as is noted in the earliest exegeses of the Holy Qur'an) this verse has not been interpreted to mean/prophesize the second coming of Jesus.

And as for Muwatta of Imam Malik, it may not be included in the Sihah Sitta but it is regarded as the first authentic Hadith collection/compilation nonetheless. As the name itself tells us, only those Ahadith were included in Muwatta that were many times agreed upon by the people of Medina. And the absence of even one Hadith in this regard means that the Muslims of second Hijri Medina were not unanimously agreed upon the dogma of 'the Second coming of Jesus'

yes you are right that there are scholars who talk against the second coming of Hazrat Esa but then they negate bible and all the hadiths. the Quran came and the Prophet taught his companions and that became the hadiths . now it seems through the logic of those who dont believe in hadith that when the quran came the Prophet narrated the verses to his companions who crammed them our wrote them on something and Prophet didnt explain to them anything and forbade them from asking question. it seems highly illogical. as far as scholars are concerned they all make mistakes. they all are humans. with the logic given by most of those who negate the idea of second coming of jesus they negate all the hadiths, bible and quran as well and when you argue with them they take help froom bible. they are ready to accept one thing but not the other . just because they are stubborn. if there is no second coming of jesus then there should be no dajjal or the anti christ.the whole lot of hadiths and parts of bible and Quran are thus wrong as per these scholars. there is another arguement regarding reading the divine books if somebody wants more knowledge and that is first we should read torah, then the bible and then the Quran. after that we will be able to have better understanding of the divine message starting from hazrat Musa to the Hazrat Muhammad SAW. some scholars say that somethings whicr were mentioned in previous scriptures are not included in Quran because Allah did not want to repeat what he said before and the new scripture contained only the new instructions which were required at that time. now after this if we say that there is no ayat ragarding the second coming of jesus in Quran through our narrow vision then i think it is injustice with Quran, hadith and the bible as well.
i am not a historian of hadith but i know that there are 6 books of hadiths who are considered authentic(even they conyain weak hadiths) . why muwatta imam malik was not included in the list? i dont know.

 

[Wa Muhammada]

i dont know. i am not a mufti and i dont issue fatwa but i know one thing and that is all scholars make errors. some by chance and some deliberately. its up to the listeners. the biggest mistake we make is that when we start following a particular scholar we take his every word nothing but the truth and we follow him blindly. we need to make our base of religious understanding strong and then when we come across which is something different from our understanding the path should be to do more research on the subject with open mind and pray Allah for showing me the right path and trust me you will get His help. but unfortunately most of our discussions are meant to dominate the other and trying to prove that i know more then you or my logic is stronger then yours. such debates are counter productive. hazrat imam ahmad bin hanbal once pointed towards the grave of the Prophet Muhammad and said you can have difference of opinion with every human other then the one in this grave. but that difference of opinion should be for the sake of knowledge and not for proving one to be better then the other or for using religion for personal agenda. i listen to many scholars and i have difference of opinion with almost all of them. but still i do listen to them and try to get everything good what they say. overall ghamidi is a great scholar but the points at which i differ from him are the coming of mehdi, second coming of hazrat esa, establishment of khilafa at the end times as he negates all these three and he strongly supports UNO despite the very obvious injustices being done in the world through UNO.

How can he be great scholar if he negates all of these essential matters?
We should be careful when choosing who we take religious advice/listen to because we can get easily misled. The saliheen had strict conditions when it came to who they took their deen from.

 

[SALMAN F]

Stupid thread and question

Nobody is coming since he didn’t even exist just like saying if superman will fight the aliens will you go and fight with him?!

 

[M. Sarmad]

yes you are right that there are scholars who talk against the second coming of Hazrat Esa but then they negate bible and all the hadiths.

No, that's not true. Not all scholars who do not believe in the second coming of Jesus negate all the hadith.
As for the Bible, Muslims do not negate it completely, nor do they accept it in its entirety.

if we say that there is no ayat ragarding the second coming of jesus in Quran through our narrow vision then i think it is injustice with Quran, hadith and the bible as well.

No matter how much you want to deny it, the fact remains that there is no mention of the second coming of Jesus in the Holy Qur'an. As for Hadith and Bible, no one is denying that the second coming of Jesus/Isa is mentioned clearly and categorically in the Bible and in some Ahadith. As argued by the Grand Mufti of Egypt, Sheikh Muhammad Abduh, the concept of second coming of Jesus predates Islam, the Holy Qur'an makes no clear mention of it, and this concept, like many other Judeo-Christian concepts, crept into Islam much later, through secondary sources.

i am not a historian of hadith but i know that there are 6 books of hadiths who are considered authentic(even they conyain weak hadiths) . why muwatta imam malik was not included in the list? i dont know.

Imam Malik did not include any Hadith regarding the second coming of Jesus in his Muwatta as all chains of narrators had one Ibn e Shihab Al-Zuhri in them, Zuhri was considered unreliable by Imam Malik, in part, due to his Shiite leanings. Shia belief in the second coming of Jesus (and his relation to Imam Mahdi A.S) is very strong. They believe that Jesus will descend from the sky to help Imam Mahdi (when he re-appears) and he will pray behind Mahdi (Shias believe that Imams are higher in status/position than prophets other than Muhammad SAW)... In fact, Shias defend the doctrine of occultation and subsequent re-appearance of their 12th Imam, Imam Mahdi, by quoting the example of the second coming of Jesus. Imam Mahdi, according to Shia, is the eleventh direct descendant of Ali A.S who was born in 868 CE, and who has been in hiding/(major) occultation since 941 C.E and will 'reappear' near the end times, along with Isa Ibn Maryam.
===
@I.R.A

 

[THE GREEN MAN]

if a person doesnt want to go beyond the literal meanings of the Quranic verses then it is his choice. no one can force him do that. even in Quran it is said that some people only go after the literal meanings. ghamidi school of thought is creating doubt in everything related to islamic escatotology i.e. second coming of jesus, coming of mehdi and ghazwa e hind. i partly agree to only his ghazwa e hind part otherwise he seems to be totally wrong about second coming of jesus. he negates all the hadiths about second coming of jesus and the bible but quotes bible in one of his lecture regarding the age of hazrat Esa. if there is no second coming of hazrat esa then who will kill dajjal? then these people should also reject dajjal as it is not mentioned in quran. it is in hadiths only and in previous scriptures but then they do talk about dajjal. some scholars are tasked to create doubts in the minds of muslim masses even when somethings are very clear. i think such people think that when Quran was sent through the Prophet Muhammad SAW he only narrated it to his companions and they wrote the verses and thats all. they fail to understand that the first teacher of Quran was the Prophet Muhammad SAW himself and his instructions were in hadiths which many "learned" scholars dont consider correct so they go only for literal meaning of Quran hence misguiding the masses. actually scholars use Quran and hadiths for supporting their own agenda when it suits them. . there is plenty of debate about this issue of second coming of hazrat Esa between some educated scholars on youtube and if one listens to it it will become very clear in our minds that who is talking with logic and who is just trying to create doubts for his selfish agenda. but then the "patwari" attitude doesnt exist in politics only. it exists in religion as well even strongly. people are not ready to call sharifs as thieves even when it is so obvious how such people can change their views about something which is so obvious.

as far as muwatta imam malik is concerned it is not in sahai sitta it means it is not considered authentic by the early islamic scholars.

ghamidi quotes bible when it suits him but doesnt mentions about bible when it talks about second coming of hazrat Esa. this is called hypocrisy.

If someone's rejecting the return of Hz Isa, what difficulty is there in rejecting Dajjal too.
Sadly they cannot reject Yajooj Majooj as well due to its unambiguous mention in the Quran. All of it goes together in the end of times. But then again there is nothing stopping someone to concoct another fantastical interpretation to reject Yajooj Majooj too

 

[M. Sarmad]

... But then again there is nothing stopping someone to concoct another fantastical interpretation to reject Yajooj Majooj too

There is no mention of the second coming of Jesus in the Holy Qur'an.
It's the Mullahs you blindly follow who have 'concocted' this fantastical interpretation.
We only refuse to accept your concocted interpretation as it does not conform to the letter of the Qur'an.

And no, rejecting your concocted interpretation of Qur'an is not tantamount to rejection of the Holy Qur'an.

 

[THE GREEN MAN]

بسم اللہ الرحمٰن الرحیم
The Quran is the highest authority, it is the absolute truth and it is Al Furqan, and sits in judgement of the Ahadith.
To keep this reply relatively short I'll only briefly address the mention of Hz Isa (Jesus, son of Mary) in the Quran.

Any Muslim will know the story of Hz Isa (a.s). He was sent to the Israelites. As was their defiantly disobedient nature they rejected him as the prophet and as the Messiah and tried to crucify him.
But they could not, as Allah says in the Quran.

And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but it was made to appear to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.(An Nisa 4:157-158)
Now it is clear that Jesus was not killed rather raised unto Allah. But Quran also tells us that every soul must taste death, hence Jesus WILL return to live the rest of his life.

Now what is the condition today? The Jews have rejected Jesus and the Christians have taken him as a God. But Allah goes further on to say,

And there is none from the People of the Scripture but that he will surely believe in Jesus before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection he will be against them a witness.( An Nisa 4:159)
These are the clear verses of Quran that make it evident that Jesus, son of Mary, will return to this Earth as the Messiah, he will complete his remaining life and he will make clear the Truth for the Jews and the Christians. And then will his death approach.
سبحان الله
How beautiful and comprehensive is the Quran. Sadly this Ummah has abandoned and betrayed the Quran. Then there are those who have never picked up the Quran yet they have the courage to speak as they are the absolute authority on the subject.

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم.
Here is another verse of the Glorious Quran that explicitly states that Allah raised Jesus upto him, and as previously mentioned it does not mean raised in status.

Mention] when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you(متوفىك) and raise you(ورافعك) to Myself(الى) and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to Allah alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ.(3:55)
Here Allah clearly mentions TAKING, RAISING UP, TO HIMSELF
Now if someone is still hell-bent to deny that he was raised up, how will you interpret it? That Allah raised the status of Jesus to His status Nauzubillah.

And here is Quran (88:18) using the word to mean literal 'raising up' . And at the sky- how it is raised

 

[M. Sarmad]

Sadly they cannot reject Yajooj Majooj as well due to its unambiguous mention in the Quran.

We do not reject anything mentioned in the Qur'an, no one rejects Yajoj Majoj
but we don't accept false attributions of non-Quranic dogmas and doctrines to the Qur'an either

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم.
Here is another verse of the Glorious Quran that explicitly states that Allah raised Jesus upto him, and as previously mentioned it does not mean raised in status.

Mention] when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you(متوفىك) and raise you(ورافعك) to Myself(الى) and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to Allah alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ.(3:55)
Here Allah clearly mentions TAKING, RAISING UP, TO HIMSELF
Now if someone is still hell-bent to deny that he was raised up, how will you interpret it? That Allah raised the status of Jesus to His status Nauzubillah.

And here is Quran (88:18) using the word to mean literal 'raising up' . And at the sky- how it is raised

^^That's what happens when you fail to read/comprehend what has been posted on the thread. Already explained in post#122

 

[El Sidd]

Did you know tgat cannabis and such hallucinogens used to bring enlightenment and helped creating several prophets over the millennia?

I have seen mummies in museum which had traces of tobacco and cocaine in them. Although both were native to South America but the Mummy was excavated in Egypt in later dynasty period.

Surah Namal talk about a person in future, but no name. He will rise for justice on this earth... I am sure someone will come..

Can you quote that verse here?

Thanks

 

[THE GREEN MAN]

We do not reject anything mentioned in the Qur'an, no one rejects Yajoj Majoj
but we don't accept false attributions of non-Quranic dogmas and doctrines to the Qur'an either




^^That's what happens when you fail to read/comprehend what has been posted on the thread. Already explained in post#122

*says there is no mention of Hz Isa being raised up bodily in the Quran*
*Proceeds to deny all the places where it IS written as such*
Umm ok

 

[M. Sarmad]

*says there is no mention of Hz Isa being raised up bodily in the Quran*
*Proceeds to deny all the places where it IS written as such*
Umm ok

*There is no mention of Hz Isa being raised up bodily (or the second coming of the Jesus) in the Holy Qur'an*
*It is NOT written as such in the Qur'an... You are just trying to falsely present your own concocted interpretation/understanding of Quranic verses as the letter of the Qur'an*
Do you get it now?

 

[VCheng]

What kind of threads I’m coming across in recent times?
What kind of weird question is that?

Please kindly refrain from sensitive issues to discuss on pdf. Surly, you can discuss religion & the connection it has with Pakistan’s constitution, other than that, create a Facebook or WhatsApp group and go discuss there.

I wonder why PDF management refuses to apply its own rules consistently, this thread being yet another example.

 

[DarkPrince]

I am sure you would love him to be a benglali........

It's you Punjabis always try to become prophets like Sikh gurus and gulam Ahmad.