IAF strike into Pakistan - A simulation of sorts

[Picdelamirand-oil]

ARe you daft? Or are you suggesting that having the MKI, UPG, M2K is inferior?
EACH of these jets has BETTER equipment simulated. The MKI has TWICE the radar power and range simulated as compared to the F-16.

Please stop being the whiny internet Indian for once in your life; its difficult and in genetics.. but spare us from commenting if you cannot.

Was the simulated Mirage an upgraded one or an old one? And was it in passive mode with tracks coming from link and SU-30 MKI radar?

 

[SecularNationalist]

lol and that assumption based childish thread was posted by a mod

 

[untitled]

lol and that assumption based childish thread was posted by a mod

So you want to create a thread based on something more technical like a scenario from the board game RISK.

 

[Dr Gupta]

I think initially it would start by a Brahmos attack to take out key runways, energy stations, terror camps also some cyber attacks and EMP bomb might be plausible.

These days you can hire guns in Pakistan to do the dirty work for you, so many attacks on state assets in Pakistan since 9/11 so this is also a idea one can take.

Naval blockade also might be on the cards, the Pak Navy is no match at all for the might of the Indian Navy which will also have Israeli self defence missile systems on board.

After 26/11 Obama said India has the right to self defence so world opinion would be with India as we all know Pakistani terror links in the west.

 

[SecularNationalist]

I think initially it would start by a Brahmos attack to take out key runways, energy stations, terror camps also some cyber attacks and EMP bomb might be plausible.

These days you can hire guns in Pakistan to do the dirty work for you, so many attacks on state assets in Pakistan since 9/11 so this is also a idea one can take.

Naval blockade also might be on the cards, the Pak Navy is no match at all for the might of the Indian Navy which will also have Israeli self defence missile systems on board.

After 26/11 Obama said India has the right to self defence so world opinion would be with India as we all know Pakistani terror links in the west.

Hey keep that little one in your pants gupta
We too can hire assets in india and do what you assumed.Be realistic .

 

[Dr Gupta]

Hey keep that little one in your pants gupta
We too can hire assets in india and do what you assumed.Be realistic .

We know like the airbase attack

Well I mean this thread is fantasy but I am giving my thoughts on what could be done if a conflict arose

Blowing up pipelines is useful too as it disrupts oil supply.

 

[SQ8]

Very nice work, you have mentioned radar values etc for F-16 and Su030, have you also set parameters for AAMs? NEZ values and PKs based on speeds of aircraft at encounters, also strategies such as approach in frontal quarter or side along engagement, if you have please post them as well. Are AWACs simulated in this scenario.

I think strategy-wise, it would have been better for IAF to just send 4 M2Ks in a lo-lo bombing run as target will be near to border this will result in less chances of detection if AWACs are not involved. Using GPS base PGMs is better than LGBs for faster turn around and more accuracy unless jammers are indicated in the area.

Also PAF response is simulated as very mediocre, with 4 Su-30s approaching at high altitude and 6 other Su-30s probably at medium altitude, even if AWACs are not involved with heightened alert state many more assets will get scrambled. Unless you are simulating a strategic or tactical surprise by IAF or lower readiness or availability states for PAF, number of fighters on both sides should be almost equal in numbers.

I have no idea how you simulation calculated kills also you have not provided any information about altitudes of defending fighters. I am assuming F-16s and JF-17s approached in high altitude to medium altitude while F7s approached in low altitude. In this case, if simulation is not taking into account any special tactics by IAF than all of low to medium altitude IAF fighters will be at disadvantage in BVR fight. BVR ranges at lower altitudes is significantly lower than higher altitude also they will be further lower for fighters at lower altitude as they at best will be able to get near to supersonic speeds. This will give PAF fighters at higher altitude with good look down ranges a significant advantage in ranges.

Every parameter is set. From AAMs to ECM. AWACS are simulated as well.
Missiles such as the AIM-120:
TypeName=AIM-120C-5
FullName=AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM
ModelName=AIM120C
Mass=156.500000
Diameter=0.178000
Length=3.655000
SubsonicDragCoeff=0.120000
SupersonicDragCoeff=0.222000
AttachmentType=USAF
SpecificStationCode=
NationName=USAF
StartYear=2000
EndYear=2030
Availability=2
BaseQuantity=40
Exported=TRUE
ExportStartYear=2006
ExportEndYear=2040
ExportAvailability=1
WeaponDataType=1
RailLaunched=TRUE
RocketPod=FALSE
Retarded=FALSE
FinStabilized=TRUE
SpinStabilized=FALSE
HasGrowl=FALSE
EffectClassName=MediumMissileEffects
ReleaseDelay=0.000000
WarheadType=13
Explosives=18.000000
FusingDistance=2.000000
ClusterBomblets=100
ClusterDispersion=10.000000
GuidanceType=13
Accuracy=95
MaxTurnRate=23.000000
MaxLaunchG=7.000000
LockonChance=95
LaunchReliability=100
ArmingTime=2.000000
SeekerFOV=15.000000
SeekerGimbleLimit=45.000000
SeekerTrackRate=55.000000
SeekerRange=55000.000000
MinLaunchRange=1000.000000
MaxLaunchRange=90000.000000
Duration=120.000000
CounterCountermeasure=98.000000
NoiseRejection=95.000000
CapabilityFlags=0x1000002f
LoftAngle=0.000000
DescentAngle=0.000000
MaxLoftAltitude=0.000000
CLmax=14.000000
MinFreq=0.000000
MaxFreq=0.000000

The M2K's did approach at low level and had embedded escorts by Mig-29 UPG's also at the same altitude. The MKI's had various altitude approaches.
The F-16s were at medium altitude, the JF-17s at low-med altitude and the PG's at low altitude. All these assets were scrambled as IAF assets were picked up.

The point of this simulation was to show the PAF at a severe tactical disadvantage. Yet, even when outnumbered and at this essential disadvantage, the PAF equipment does give the attackers a tough time.

Ill be posting another scenario with the PAF doing what it does best and the IAF also doing best.

Lets see how that works out.

Was the simulated Mirage an upgraded one or an old one? And was it in passive mode with tracks coming from link and SU-30 MKI radar?

It was a M2K-5-2, it was flying passive and sensors off AFNET. AFNET linked all IAF assets including the MKI, Mig-29 and the A-50.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

The M2K's did approach at low level and had embedded escorts by Mig-29 UPG's also at the same altitude. The MKI's had various altitude approaches.
The F-16s were at medium altitude, the JF-17s at low-med altitude and the PG's at low altitude. All these assets were scrambled as IAF assets were picked up.

The point of this simulation was to show the PAF at a severe tactical disadvantage. Yet, even when outnumbered and at this essential disadvantage, the PAF equipment does give the attackers a tough time.

Ill be posting another scenario with the PAF doing what it does best and the IAF also doing best.

Lets see how that works out.


It was a M2K-5-2, it was flying passive and sensors off AFNET. AFNET linked all IAF assets including the MKI, Mig-29 and the A-50.

Did M2K-5-2 have MICA-IR in the scenario? And use them as IRST?

 

[SQ8]

Did M2K-5-2 have MICA-IR in the scenario? And use them as IRST?

It did have Mica-IR, the range of the missile itself in the sim acts as a sensor. So if the MICA-IR is selected by the AI, it then picks up targets within the missiles range.

 

[MastanKhan]

September 2018 -
The A massive explosion rocks the IIT campus in Gandhinagar leaving tens of students dead and hundreds injured. A finger is pointed immediately by India at the LeT even as less than 24 hours have passed. PM Modi delivers a sombre and terse message; "India has the right to take revenge".

PAF assets are only just being put on alert but the intelligence lines are buzzing.

The IAF is instructed to deliver a message with the following package.
The best pilots have been selected to deliver this message.

Disclaimer: AT NO POINT DID I PERSONALLY CONTROL AN AIRCRAFT OR MAKE INPUTS TO INFLUENCE THE OUTCOME, the only thing set was the number of aircraft and response aircraft of PAF - Who were given the assumed advantage of a long range sam battery as well. Pilots on both sides set with excellent skills. Radar range(and power) are set to best known "real world" levels along RCS, ECM and other parameters. I made no attempt to do anything less than any unfair advantage except the HQ-9 which isnt an unlikely factor.
The only thing not simulated is morale and panic. The AI pilots do what they came to do, fight how they can, die without "fear" or "hesitation".


The IAF Strike package had ToT just at dusk and was made up of:

2 x M2K - LGB -LeT HQ Muridke
2 x M2K - LGB -Hafiz Saeed last location - 3km west of Let HQ
4 x Jaguar DARIN - SEAD escort
3 x Mig-29 UPG - Embedded Escort
4 x Su-30 MKI - High altitude Escort
6 x Su-30 MKI - Fighter sweep
2 x Su-30 MKI - SEAD escort
___________________________________

23 Combat aircraft
All IAF aircraft are connected via simulated AFNET.
Ground Defence
1 x S-400
Akash Sams

In return the PAF standard alert 5 and 10 group send the following

PAF response:
2 x F-16C
4 x F-16A
4 x JF-17
2 x F-7PG
_____________________
12 Combat Aircraft
All PAF aircraft except F-7PG are connected via simulated Link-17


Ground Defences:
2 x LY-80
1 x HQ-9

Final Tally

IAF Losses:

7 x Su-30MKI ( 5 to air combat, 2 to SAMs)
3 x Jaguar DARIN
2 x M2K
--------------------------
52% of assets employed lost

PAF Losses:
4 x F-16A MLU
1 x F-16C
4 x JF-17
2 x F-7PG
-----------------------------
92% of assets employed lost

IAF mission 50% success, HS escapes but LeT HQ in Muridke hit.

As with all simulations, there is always what you think might happen and what does happen.The M2Ks were to follow a dogleg low level attack approach into target.. some of the flight time shown is them racing parallel to border before beginning their run.
The PAF was outnumbered 2:1 and I expected the F-16s to be the ones holding the fight and the JF-17s not lasting long. The F-16C's engaged first and decimated most of the Jaguar flight although one Jaguar managed to slip in and hit a PA RBS-70 & AAA battery South of Muridke.

The F-16A's which I assumed would be the most effective in air to air combat were so overwhelmed by the MKI's focus with volleys upon volleys of R-77s and R-27s that they only managed to take down 1 MKI before all 4 went down.

The JF-17 flight however had flown in low and because the MKI's were all focused on the F-16s, they did not pick up the smaller RCS JF-17 before they picked up the JF-17s and engaged. That focus on the F-16s left them vulnerable to the JF-17s attack and 3 MKI's were lost to JF-17s, along with the second M2K strike group. They were finally taken down by numbers with both MKI's and Mig-29's scoring kills.
The MKI's also were lost to HQ-9 systems due to their higher altitude.

This is only one run of the simulation, and I must state that beyond this video.. there were cases where the PAF took out the entire M2K squadron and had a kill ratio of 1.5:1; and also a run where the PAF managed only to destroy 2 or 4 aircraft and both IAF strikes went successful.

In the end, its just a show of what might , could , may not or may happen.
@Arsalan @Dazzler @Gufi @niaz @araz @fatman17 @Hell hound @Windjammer @chauvunist ..and please tag anyone who might be interested @Horus , FB Page??

@MilSpec @Abingdonboy @Spectre Tag anyone you want you might enjoy the casual fun.

Hi,

I don't know if I missed reading it---how many pilots were able to bail on both sides---and how many went down with their planes?

 

[Dr Gupta]

@Oscar why would we risk our fighters behind enemy lines with the risk of SAM when Brahmos missiles would suffice?

The JF-17 flight however had flown in low and because the MKI's were all focused on the F-16s, they did not pick up the smaller RCS JF-17 before they picked up the JF-17s and engaged.

Sir our phalcon AWACS can stay well within our borders and monitor jets taking of from PAK airspace

Also where is Spy sats in this hypothetical scenario? we launched a Israeli one after 26/11


The AWACS can simultaneously track flying objects within a radius of 800km and has a 'look-down capability' for monitoring movements on the ground or in the sea.

The 2 new AWACS we ordered is more advanced

 

[Zahoor Raja-Jani]

I think initially it would start by a Brahmos attack to take out key runways, energy stations, terror camps also some cyber attacks and EMP bomb might be plausible.

These days you can hire guns in Pakistan to do the dirty work for you, so many attacks on state assets in Pakistan since 9/11 so this is also a idea one can take.

Naval blockade also might be on the cards, the Pak Navy is no match at all for the might of the Indian Navy which will also have Israeli self defence missile systems on board.

After 26/11 Obama said India has the right to self defence so world opinion would be with India as we all know Pakistani terror links in the west.

If we reply with Ra'ad, Babur and nasr believe me u r jets can cross the border if survive there will me no airfield left in India to land.
@Khafee @Indus Falcon

 

[Dr Gupta]

If we reply with Ra'ad, Babur and nasr believe me u r jets can cross the border if survive there will me no airfield left in India to land.
@Khafee @Indus Falcon

I am just talking about conventional missiles not nuclear lol wooh cowboy chill. BTW the Brahmos is the fastest cruise missile in the world that is it's advantage the key is we hit you before you know what has even happened.

 

[Zahoor Raja-Jani]

I am just talking about conventional missiles not nuclear lol wooh cowboy chill

When our homeland is attacked by jackles there will be no distinguise nuc or non nuc we will destroy u like Ghaznavi destroy somnath.

 

[Dr Gupta]

When our homeland is attacked by jackles there will be no distinguise nuc or non nuc we will destroy u like Ghaznavi destroy somnath.

I think it's time to put you on iggey

This scenario is not making best use of our assets and we have lost a number of MKI's because they were focused on the F-16 while the nimble low flyng small JF-17 RCS came in from behind like a mig 21 bison