I accept facts and share my view on Jammu and Kashmir

[Viny]

Good luck with that. Two nation theory is an established fact, you will be surprised to see the results if start accepting it rather than trying to undo it. your stubbornness is what cost precious lives back than and it is continuing to do so unless you accept the facts on ground and try to live with them.


It's not your's to begin with. It belongs to Kashmiris who are living there for centuries.

This shows you have still not learnt from the past, nor the lessons of precious life, I dont blame you, for some it takes time to understand there is nothing more precious on this planet then the value of human life, religion, society, culture, country all comes later, first responsibility is respecting a human life.

 

[ssethii]

Before Muslims came to Kashmir ; that Land belonged to Hindus

That is why we want it

Majority choose to convert. why bringing religion in to it?

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Majority choose to convert. why bringing religion in to it?

IT does nt matter what Muslims want

What will happen is what Hindus want

 

[ssethii]

That my friend won't ever come. The closest was this in 2002-03 when India did try but result is as usual for all sides to see.

Official sources say that the Vajpayee government has softened its earlier stand and is agreeable to accepting the LoC as the international border provided certain conditions are met with by Pakistan.
The conditions are:

• Pakistan will not claim or demand any more land in Kashmir after the agreement;
• and, it will stop proxy-war and terrorism in India.

Pakistan president Pervez Musharraf, however, is not yet ready to accept this proposal.

The proposal has been discussed by US foreign secretary Colin Powell, defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld and British foreign secretary Jack Straw with Prime Minister Vajpayee, Deputy Prime Minister L K Advani and defence minister George Fernandes, during their respective visits to New Delhi this year.

The cabinet committee on security has discussed the proposal at length and most of the CCS members have endorsed it as ''realistic'.

J&K chief minister Farooq Abdullah, a long-time advocate of this, has expressed his support to the PM and the DPM.

The Vajpayee government has told Powell and Straw that India can accept this proposal provided Pakistan accepts it and is willing to fulfil India's demands of giving up any further claims to Kashmir and putting an end to the proxy war against India. Once the agreement is signed the border will be properly demarcated and delineated.

After a recent report in Pakistani newspaper The News that Musharraf was ready to accept LoC as the international border, the Pakistani government officially denied any truth in the claim. The Indian government, too, has officially denied any such move. But diplomatic sources reveal that secretly a lot of headway is being made on this issue.

Steps asked were
View attachment 323919

India's softened stand would mean it gives up its claim on Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir. This might not be easily acceptable to all parties and will require convincing by the Prime Minister to work out a consensus and build public opinion.

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/India-open-to-LoC-as-international-border/articleshow/21503497.cms

That's why I said both sides wish to maintain status quo.

LOC is itself disputed beyond point NJ9842.

IT does nt matter what Muslims want

What will happen is what Hindus want

 

[Stephen Cohen]

LOC is itself disputed beyond point NJ9842.


View attachment 323980

WHO CARES what you think or say or do

WHAT MATTERS is Kashmir is in INDIA' s hands and control

 

[Hamza913]

HI Friends,

I am very much upset on Kashmir about ongoing tense situation. We have lost few our brother’s life and high injures are also reported.

I am an Indian but want to accept few facts and share my view on about Kashmir. I believed that we have to accept realities and for bright future of Kashmiri Brothers and we have to take few steps.

Even I believed that if issue will get resolved than most beneficial will be Kashmiri and Pakistani (Pakistani because they are suffering from Kashmir fewer and it is a cause of most of the issue in Pakistan), and also India too.

There are many propaganda in both side (India and Pakistan). I don’t think most of the members will be agreed with my words because it is a very difficult to accept reality for both side. Because from childhood, we have been teaching and listing from our leaders.

So, I do wanna accept few realities and I would request to members that please give your view on based on below scenario only.

Facts 1. :

1. Pakistan will never get Indian Kashmir

2. India will never get Pak kashmir

Note: - Without WAR, it is not possible to change Indian and Pak map and after WAR, don’t know how many people will survive to see new MAP.

Fact 2 –

1. India and Pakistan will not gonna agree to withdraw their force from Kashmir and accept Jammu and Kashmir a new free country.

Fact 3 –

1. Why India and Pakistani Maps are wrong. Specially, I am talking about indian MAP because I don’t much about Pakistani map. If we don’t have PAK Kashmir and China Kashmir. There are many war happened in worlds and after end of the war country maps change based on their status

Facts 4.

Pakistan started arm Kashmiri people since 1990 but NO success and only it cause of indian amry deployment in large numbers in Kashmir. Overall, Kashmiri brothers are suffering. Talk between Indian and Pakistan always gets failed because above facts.

As per me, there is only one solution that could be only possible.

Accept LOC as permanent international border. Pakistan must stop supporting terrorism and India and Pakistan must open border for Kashmiri people with fewer security check. Kashmiri should be allowed to go anywhere in Indian Kashmir and PAk Kashmir. (FOR REST PLACES, THEY SHOULD NOT)

Kindly let me know view with accept above facts. There are many threats for Kashmir solution but none are based on real facts (Most are only propaganda and could not be possible)

I agree with your 4 facts, but not your solution. As someone who is partially from Kashmir, I will tell you the two (ish) solutions at hand:

1. India treats Kashmir nicely and stops using violence, this way Kashmir will no longer seek independence. After that, get rid of all claims on Pakistani Kashmir and allow any and all Kashmiri's that still want to leave to migrate to Pakistan with ease. The immigration shouldn't be too much if India really does treat Kashmir nicely, as locals will start to become happy under Indian rule.

2. India does not do that, and eventually Kashmir gets independence itself, and becomes it's own nation or it joins Pakistan. Either way, Kashmir will no longer be part of India.

From what we can currently see, option 2 seems most likely to happen.

 

[American Pakistani]

Sorry Sir, u are saying what your people tech you. If u read about Kashmir from International sourse than my be u know the facts.
Gilgit Baltistan joined Pakistan by its choice........... Very wrong teaches by your people.

No one taught us that, that is the fact. Read anywhere you want to.

 

[Hamza913]

IT does nt matter what Muslims want

What will happen is what Hindus want

 

[Stephen Cohen]

 

[American Pakistani]

Yes, we noticed you loving it and running crying to the Mods asking them to come along with you to love it.



What he doesn't understand is that his entire position is built on fake data. On fake assumptions. On fake hopes and thoughts.

Essentially, a fake position.



So how did you get the figure of 7 lakh?

I only ask mods to interfere when indian f@rt abt Balochistan. Mods come and spray some air freshner. That's all. Unlike you who resort to personal attacks, name calling and repeated oneliners.

Read Musharraf about 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists roaches.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I only ask mods to interfere when indian f@rt abt Balochistan. Mods come and spray some air freshner. That's all. Unlike you who resort to personal attacks, name calling and repeated oneliners.

Read Musharraf about 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists roaches.

You mean unless you get it from Musharraf, you can't make up your own mind? Pathetic.

What happened to the rest of the borders? Or do you want us to believe that you think that we manned it with scarecrows?

 

[American Pakistani]

How much do you know about Kashmir. Before commenting the B.S theory take a look couple of District around Srinagar Valley aka Anantnag, Shopian, Baramulla, Badgam is not Kashmir or J&K. Second the theory of the Muslims are Pakistan and rest India, have been long bursted and scrapped in 1971. Few questions for you :-

1. What do you want Independent Kashmir or Kashmir with Pakistan ? If Independent Kashmir is your choice, then start from the Pakistani held Kashmir, and make it independent country.

2. Have you ever seen the Evil Occupier of a piece of land, where the habitant of that piece of Land have more rights than even the Occupant's rest of the country. e.g they could purchase land and property anywhere in India, but the rest of the Indians don't have that previledge ?

3. Do you know how many schools and colleges are now in the Occupant Land as compare to the 1947, and the same figure in the so called Azad Kashmir ?

4. Do you know the so called Higher than mountains and deeper than Ocean friend have a theory of the Civilization and culture regarding the Artificial Island and other islands around South China Sea, which Pakistan is supporting, and I assume you are supporting, then why couldn't the same Logic applies by the EVIL Hindus when they have the cultural, historical, religious marking in Kashmir --- Did you know that Shankracharya Temple on the top of the Mountain lies around which the whole Srinagar Valley lies, and not to forgot Amarnath, Vaishnu Devi, Kheer Bhawani. OOps I forgot Mansarovar which lies in Tibet -- So you are going to support Tibet is Indian Land.

5. Last but not the least, Apna Ghar Sambhal Nahi Raha, aur Dusro ke Ghar ki Chinta Ho rahi Hai.



A single removal of Article 370 removal for 1 Decade is more than enough. The people from Punjab, will take over all the Buisness and Land.


LOLZ then why only Kashmir -- Cry for Chechnya, Balluchistan, Kashgar, Ughar, Palestine, Kurdistan.

I don't want anything but Kashmiris do want. Either independence or merger with Pakistan or even india, it will be their decision.

Can they slaughter cow? They don't have any rights that's a bullsh it claim. Their main right of self determination is denied to them they don't need anything from india. You thought of capturing IOK by development - you failed, - by trying your best to falsify 2 nation theory - you failed, now by force - you are failing...

Azad Kashmir living standards is 100 times more higher than settled part of India so forget about them.

Rawlakot University

University Agriculture Poonch

Look online for more universities from Azad Kashmir.

China's claim on its islands and tibet which is historically their territories. Similarly Kashmir was always with the rest of Pakistan during every empire or civilizations historically.

Apna sab smbhla Hua hai. Apna bharat mata ki fikar karo. As per internet a dozen countries are ready to born out of india.

Why should anyone cry for Chehniya, Kurdistan, Ugr, Kashgar or Balochistan? They are not disputed.

You mean unless you get it from Musharraf, you can't make up your own mind? Pathetic.

What happened to the rest of the borders? Or do you want us to believe that you think that we manned it with scarecrows?

The Gen is more knowledgeable. You and me are just kids when it comes to these things. You can learn alot from Musharraf, one thing that you know now is 7 lakh indian occupier terrorist roaches failed to change the minds of IOK residents.

Rest of the borders are manned with BSF and some 5 lakh indian army troops.

@American Pakistani : My friend, for the sake of fare debate are you willing to prove your claim of 7lakh with reference ???

Anybody with army experience can tell you no country amass it's half army at one location. So 0.7 of 1.2 seems far stretched form that logic.

I think some servings or retired PA members can help with figure

Yes sir, please go through the Internet and search for Musharraf interview with retired army officer of indian army and goswami.

If Pakistan can have 80000 troops in a small area of Waziristan which is just a small district not surrounded by any neighbor claiming that territory, compared to IOK which is huge area surrounded by 2 neighbors that are fed up of indian occupation, and is a disputed occupied land where local people hate india and are waiting to use their promised right of self determination.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I don't want anything but Kashmiris do want. Either independence or merger with Pakistan or even india, it will be their decision.

Can they slaughter cow? They don't have any rights that's a bullsh it claim. Their main right of self determination is denied to them they don't need anything from india. You thought of capturing IOK by development - you failed, - by trying your best to falsify 2 nation theory - you failed, now by force - you are failing...

They can. They do. First get your facts working, before you sound off.

Azad Kashmir living standards is 100 times more higher than settled part of India so forget about them.

Rawlakot University

University Agriculture Poonch

Look online for more universities from Azad Kashmir.

China's claim on its islands and tibet which is historically their territories. Similarly Kashmir was always with the rest of Pakistan during every empire or civilizations historically.

Apna sab smbhla Hua hai. Apna bharat mata ki fikar karo. As per internet a dozen countries are ready to born out of india.

Why should anyone cry for Chehniya, Kurdistan, Ugr, Kashgar or Balochistan? They are not disputed.

The Gen is more knowledgeable. You and me are just kids when it comes to these things. You can learn alot from Musharraf, one thing that you know now is 7 lakh indian occupier terrorist roaches failed to change the minds of IOK residents.

Rest of the borders are manned with BSF and some 5 lakh indian army troops.

Yeah, right.

He's established as an almight liar, and you bring in his knowledge? LOL.

What we can learn from Musharraf is how to mount misadventures that derail hopeful moves for a permanent end to the destruction of national resources of two nations, and then how to lie a way out of taking responsibility. Read Kaisar Tufail's account, if nothing else - there is plenty more, if you look at it, but brainless fanboys won't bother, so I won't hold my breath - to find out how three dipstick generals planned the whole escapade, failed and then dumped it on your panicking PM.

I have already given you the orbat of Indian troops in the general vicinity, and we all saw you running like a terrified bunny rabbit in the other direction to avoid having to acknowledge publicly how stupid you sounded. Ah, that was good to see!

 

[adil_minhas]

I agree with your 4 facts, but not your solution. As someone who is partially from Kashmir, I will tell you the two (ish) solutions at hand:

1. India treats Kashmir nicely and stops using violence, this way Kashmir will no longer seek independence. After that, get rid of all claims on Pakistani Kashmir and allow any and all Kashmiri's that still want to leave to migrate to Pakistan with ease. The immigration shouldn't be too much if India really does treat Kashmir nicely, as locals will start to become happy under Indian rule.

2. India does not do that, and eventually Kashmir gets independence itself, and becomes it's own nation or it joins Pakistan. Either way, Kashmir will no longer be part of India.

From what we can currently see, option 2 seems most likely to happen.

We are treating Kashmiris like any sovereign power would treat a restive region with an ongoing insurgency.

And a lot better than many do on their own soil.

You guys have no hope of ever getting Kashmir. Any Kashmiri who wants to move to Pakistan is free to do so. On a one way ticket.

 

[American Pakistani]

They can. They do. First get your facts working, before you sound off.



Yeah, right.

He's established as an almight liar, and you bring in his knowledge? LOL.

What we can learn from Musharraf is how to mount misadventures that derail hopeful moves for a permanent end to the destruction of national resources of two nations, and then how to lie a way out of taking responsibility. Read Kaisar Tufail's account, if nothing else - there is plenty more, if you look at it, but brainless fanboys won't bother, so I won't hold my breath - to find out how three dipstick generals planned the whole escapade, failed and then dumped it on your panicking PM.

I have already given you the orbat of Indian troops in the general vicinity, and we all saw you running like a terrified bunny rabbit in the other direction to avoid having to acknowledge publicly how stupid you sounded. Ah, that was good to see!

Prove it by video link. Lemme see Eid al adha celebration in IOK.

It seems like you are liar. You claim to respect all man with uniform, huh liar? Where is that respect now?

He was actually working to solve the long standing dispute and stop Pakistan and India from wasting their resources but didn't got the same respond from india who wanted it's 7 lakh occupier terrorists in IOK to continue with their terrorism.

You gave me all nonsense garbage you learned from your Army and media. My facts have made you worked up and you are running around with the tail between your legs you keep repeating one liner in ever post just to increase your post count and you now resort to personal attacks when you saw none of your ninsense propaganda is working for you against me. For last 2 weeks you are asking same oneliner in every post and I'm educqting you. Like I said that I watched one movie where a women lost her husband and then women become abnormal out of shock and keep repeating one liner to the doctor "where is my husband?" Doctor just keep educating her you are just trying to abuse the privilege of your title.

I don't think Kashmir is the issue here. It's just a symptom. The issue is that India is a British creation. Prior to British arrival, there were many princely state and empires such as Mysore, Sihk, Chola empire, Maratha empire etc. Indian subcontinent prospered when British didn't force its political institution of Indian people. It's time for India to get its independence by revert to its form prior to British arrival. Allow the Bengalis to join Bengladesh and other states to gain ibdependence and solve the Kashmir problem.

India was an artificial creation of British to stop the growth of China. Nothing has changed today. Why do you think the west do nuclear agreements with india that is a non signitory nation of NPT?

Indians love Tareq Fateh and look what he has to say about indian disintegration in future.