I accept facts and share my view on Jammu and Kashmir

[dadeechi]

Facts 1. :

1. Pakistan will never get Indian Kashmir

2. India will never get Pak kashmir

Note: - Without WAR, it is not possible to change Indian and Pak map and after WAR, don’t know how many people will survive to see new MAP.

India would surely take control of the whole state of Jammu & Kashmir.

Fact 2 –

1. India and Pakistan will not gonna agree to withdraw their force from Kashmir and accept Jammu and Kashmir a new free country.

Whole state of Jammu and Kashmir is integral part of India. Through Instrument of accession, as recognized by the constitution of India and Parliament of India. Note that constitution of Pakistan does not recognize Kashmir as part of Pakistan for a reason.

Fact 3 –

1. Why India and Pakistani Maps are wrong. Specially, I am talking about indian MAP because I don’t much about Pakistani map. If we don’t have PAK Kashmir and China Kashmir. There are many war happened in worlds and after end of the war country maps change based on their status

Official Indian map show what is officially recognized by India.

http://www.mea.gov.in/india-at-glance.htm

Facts 4.

Pakistan started arm Kashmiri people since 1990 but NO success and only it cause of indian amry deployment in large numbers in Kashmir. Overall, Kashmiri brothers are suffering. Talk between Indian and Pakistan always gets failed because above facts.

Pakistan has no locus standi with regards to Jammu & Kashmir. It is an internal matter of India. The talks with Pakistan are to persuade it to give up policy of terrorism and give up forceful control of the Indian land occupied by it.

As per me, there is only one solution that could be only possible.

Accept LOC as permanent international border. Pakistan must stop supporting terrorism and India and Pakistan must open border for Kashmiri people with fewer security check. Kashmiri should be allowed to go anywhere in Indian Kashmir and PAk Kashmir. (FOR REST PLACES, THEY SHOULD NOT)

India will not accept LOC as border. India will persevere until the whole state of Jammu & Kashmir is under its control.

 

[Hamza913]

We are treating Kashmiris like any sovereign power would treat a restive region with an ongoing insurgency.

And a lot better than many do on their own soil.

You guys have no hope of ever getting Kashmir. Any Kashmiri who wants to move to Pakistan is free to do so. On a one way ticket.

Did you ever stop to think why there is an insurgency in Kashmir? You might be doing better than other countries, but that isn't saying much when your competition is the likes of Russia or Israel.

Oh and believe me we have a good chance of getting Kashmir, but it will most likely just become an independent state.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Did you ever stop to think why there is an insurgency in Kashmir? You might be doing better than other countries, but that isn't saying much when your competition is the likes of Russia or Israel.

Oh and believe me we have a good chance of getting Kashmir, but it will most likely just become an independent state.

You will never get Kashmir

Just as CHINA has SWALLOWED Tibet and Xinjiang
Similarly we have swallowed Kashmir

 

[Joe Shearer]

Prove it by video link. Lemme see Eid al adha celebration in IOK.

It seems like you are liar. You claim to respect all man with uniform, huh liar? Where is that respect now?

All men with uniform WHO DESERVE IT.

Do you think Ayub Khan, or Tikka Khan would be worth respect? I don't. I don't think any of the military dictators over Pakistan is worth respecting, not one.

He was actually working to solve the long standing dispute and stop Pakistan and India from wasting their resources but didn't got the same respond from india who wanted it's 7 lakh occupier terrorists in IOK to continue with their terrorism.

He created the problem in the first place by interrupting the peace process and then by imprisoning the Pakistani protagonist. And how did you get the figure of 7 lakh?

You gave me all nonsense garbage you learned from your Army and media. My facts have made you worked up and you are running around with the tail between your legs you keep repeating one liner in ever post just to increase your post count and you now resort to personal attacks when you saw none of your ninsense propaganda is working for you against me.

Have you quoted a single fact? I have named the Army Corps, the XIV Corps, the XV Corps and the XVI Corps; I have named their constituent Divisions, and their Division HQ locations. What have you put up instead? Just one line, that you got it from Musharraf's TV interview.

For last 2 weeks you are asking same oneliner in every post and I'm educqting you. Like I said that I watched one movie where a women lost her husband and then women become abnormal out of shock and keep repeating one liner to the doctor "where is my husband?" Doctor just keep educating her you are just trying to abuse the privilege of your title.

Great.

Now reproduce one fact that you put up in defence of your funny numbers.

India was an artificial creation of British to stop the growth of China. Nothing has changed today. Why do you think the west do nuclear agreements with india that is a non signitory nation of NPT?

Indians love Tareq Fateh and look what he has to say about indian disintegration in future.

An artificial creation of the British to stop the growth of China? ROTFL.

Do you even know the date of establishment of the PRC? and the date of Indian independence?

You are showing yourself up more and more as the shallow and uneducated ignoramus that you are. And that is a fact, not an insult.

 

[Hamza913]

You will never get Kashmir

We will see, but one thing is certain, India shall lose it.

 

[cerberus]

We will see, but one thing is certain, India shall lose it.

How?

 

[Hamza913]

How?

Can't be kept forever, unless India treats IOK fairly and justly, which I doubt will happen before they manage to break the chains of Indian oppression. Insurgency shall get too dangerous for India to continue fighting.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

We will see, but one thing is certain, India shall lose it.

You should concentrate on your economy

 

[forcetrip]

You can 100% be sure there WILL NOT be a full scale war on this issue. Cause nobody can win that.
Govt and armies of both side are far more mature than members on PDF

Kargil like situation is another option but you know the eventual result

I am not discussing results of this supposed war. If only these two countries are left to fix this then war is inevitable. What the scope and outcome of this war are to be seen. You are right, we have seen what the military results of Kargil were.

 

[desimorty]

HI Friends,

I am very much upset on Kashmir about ongoing tense situation. We have lost few our brother’s life and high injures are also reported.

I am an Indian but want to accept few facts and share my view on about Kashmir. I believed that we have to accept realities and for bright future of Kashmiri Brothers and we have to take few steps.

Even I believed that if issue will get resolved than most beneficial will be Kashmiri and Pakistani (Pakistani because they are suffering from Kashmir fewer and it is a cause of most of the issue in Pakistan), and also India too.

There are many propaganda in both side (India and Pakistan). I don’t think most of the members will be agreed with my words because it is a very difficult to accept reality for both side. Because from childhood, we have been teaching and listing from our leaders.

So, I do wanna accept few realities and I would request to members that please give your view on based on below scenario only.

Facts 1. :

1. Pakistan will never get Indian Kashmir

2. India will never get Pak kashmir

Note: - Without WAR, it is not possible to change Indian and Pak map and after WAR, don’t know how many people will survive to see new MAP.

Fact 2 –

1. India and Pakistan will not gonna agree to withdraw their force from Kashmir and accept Jammu and Kashmir a new free country.

Fact 3 –

1. Why India and Pakistani Maps are wrong. Specially, I am talking about indian MAP because I don’t much about Pakistani map. If we don’t have PAK Kashmir and China Kashmir. There are many war happened in worlds and after end of the war country maps change based on their status

Facts 4.

Pakistan started arm Kashmiri people since 1990 but NO success and only it cause of indian amry deployment in large numbers in Kashmir. Overall, Kashmiri brothers are suffering. Talk between Indian and Pakistan always gets failed because above facts.

As per me, there is only one solution that could be only possible.

Accept LOC as permanent international border. Pakistan must stop supporting terrorism and India and Pakistan must open border for Kashmiri people with fewer security check. Kashmiri should be allowed to go anywhere in Indian Kashmir and PAk Kashmir. (FOR REST PLACES, THEY SHOULD NOT)

Kindly let me know view with accept above facts. There are many threats for Kashmir solution but none are based on real facts (Most are only propaganda and could not be possible)

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/i-accept...ew-on-jammu-and-kashmir.443057/#ixzz4Gf9dVyUa

Maps are only logical for navigation. Bonderies? lol
Bonderies are mental as well.
In my opinon, those who are were ruled by western interest in the Cold War,like Saddam, other puppets expecially by the west are the real conundrum. They are not civilizational states or ethnic or even geographic!
Pakistan is religious identity and that will forever be problem, by default shouldn't Suadi Arabia be the Islamic State instead of Pakistan? 100 million Punjabis or more in Pakistan. When are Punjabis NOT Indian? History tells us Punjabis were well involved with Bengalis, Biharis, Rajputs etc...
The Punjabis a majority in Pakistan yet, the identity of Pakistan is almost Arab? odd.
India itself is conundrum but the people inside have done a far better job of realizing their place in the world compared to some of its western neighbours.

 

[adil_minhas]

Maps are only logical for navigation. Bonderies? lol
Bonderies are mental as well.
In my opinon, those who are were ruled by western interest in the Cold War,like Saddam, other puppets expecially by the west are the real conundrum. They are not civilizational states or ethnic or even geographic!
Pakistan is religious identity and that will forever be problem, by default shouldn't Suadi Arabia be the Islamic State instead of Pakistan? 100 million Punjabis or more in Pakistan. When are Punjabis NOT Indian? History tells us Punjabis were well involved with Bengalis, Biharis, Rajputs etc...
The Punjabis a majority in Pakistan yet, the identity of Pakistan is almost Arab? odd.
India itself is conundrum but the people inside have done a far better job of realizing their place in the world compared to some of its western neighbours.

The Indus has always historically been the cleave line between Indian and Persian civilizations brother.

Punjabi and Sindhi are Indian. Pashtun and Baloch are Iranic.

Of the above, three of them have a problem with the Pakistani state. Or the Punjabi state to be more accurate.

The Bengalis already broke away. And they keep talking about our Kashmir. I do not understand what fuels their delusions. Must be something pretty strong.

 

[dadeechi]

You will never get Kashmir

Just as CHINA has SWALLOWED Tibet and Xinjiang
Similarly we have swallowed Kashmir

India did not swallow J&K.

J&K joined India through instrument of accession.

 

[American Pakistani]

All men with uniform WHO DESERVE IT.

Do you think Ayub Khan, or Tikka Khan would be worth respect? I don't. I don't think any of the military dictators over Pakistan is worth respecting, not one.



He created the problem in the first place by interrupting the peace process and then by imprisoning the Pakistani protagonist. And how did you get the figure of 7 lakh?



Have you quoted a single fact? I have named the Army Corps, the XIV Corps, the XV Corps and the XVI Corps; I have named their constituent Divisions, and their Division HQ locations. What have you put up instead? Just one line, that you got it from Musharraf's TV interview.



Great.

Now reproduce one fact that you put up in defence of your funny numbers.





An artificial creation of the British to stop the growth of China? ROTFL.

Do you even know the date of establishment of the PRC? and the date of Indian independence?

You are showing yourself up more and more as the shallow and uneducated ignoramus that you are. And that is a fact, not an insult.

By that definition your whole army is not worthy of respect as they trained and sponsored mutkia terrorists and massacred kashmiris or you have double standards.

Yes ayub tikka all were worthy of respect unlike indian army general who sowed the seeds of terrorism in entire south asia by training and sponsoring mutkia then ltte.

I don't have to put XIV or anything. If you think General Musharraf was liar, face him and talk to him on camera proving him wrong. But remember his time is valuable unlike some internet ignorant troll like you who have nothing but to post oneliners hiding behind the title and privileges that PDF has provide you. You don't deserve that title in my opinion because I've noticed you have abused that title and power in the past and I'm sure you will do that again. The forum prohibits trolling and posting oneliners but you are ranting your one line like the abnormal women in the movie I mentioned earlier. I'm posting another link so you can further educate yourself.

Six years down they were crushed under the relentless military force of some 750,000 armed Indian men making it the densest military presence per square mile in the world. With 100,000 dead till then, and many more maimed and injured, the Kashmiris have been trying to make their voice heard for a grant. Instead, they only peer into a void.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/140221-The-tragedy-of-Kashmir

China was not independent but world knew that Chinese could not be occupied for long. British created your artificial lala republic and you borrowed the land from Sind. Your only existence was due to China factor. And soon after China's independence you fought them and they slaughter you in Himalaya theater deep in your land.

 

[Joe Shearer]

By that definition your whole army is not worthy of respect as they trained and sponsored mutkia terrorists and massacred kashmiris or you have double standards.

No double standards, just the learning and the education not to say things that will lead me to humiliation. Your lack of learning and education has led you to this today.

Did you not know that the Pakistani intelligence were active with the Mizo uprising from 1966 onwards? When you talk of an entire army not being worthy of respect for training the Mukti Bahini, you obviously knew nothing of your own doings, did you?

Yes ayub tikka all were worthy of respect unlike indian army general who sowed the seeds of terrorism in entire south asia by training and sponsoring mutkia then ltte.

You dishonour yourself and those who ape you by saying that, and again by repeating that which shows your lack of fitness for anything but writing propaganda. Because you have neither military knowledge nor military history to contribute, only smileys and emoticons.

I don't have to put XIV or anything. If you think General Musharraf was liar, face him and talk to him on camera proving him wrong.

I am writing to you, and you have shown, again, and again, and again, that you know nothing except to write excited little notes on whatever you think might convince yourself and your kind that you are making sense. My intention is to expose your ignorance, and your dependence on YouTube and wikipedia kind of sources, and nothing of more substance.

But remember his time is valuable unlike some internet ignorant troll like you who have nothing but to post oneliners hiding behind the title and privileges that PDF has provide you.

His time might or might not be valuable. It is your time that counts. And you have shown how little you know.

You don't deserve that title in my opinion because I've noticed you have abused that title and power in the past and I'm sure you will do that again. The forum prohibits trolling and posting oneliners but you are ranting your one line like the abnormal women in the movie I mentioned earlier. I'm posting another link so you can further educate yourself.

Your opinion is as influential as your credibility. For someone who knows nothing but how to weave words together, you have an exaggerated view of the value of your opinion. It counts for nothing, because it is based on nothing.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/140221-The-tragedy-of-Kashmir

Your knowing what Pakistani newspapers write is wonderful. That does not give you the credibility to form an opinion.

China was not independent but world knew that Chinese could not be occupied for long.

ROTFL.

So you don't even know that China was not occupied!!!

Actually, what do you know? This is getting really interesting.

British created your artificial lala republic and you borrowed the land from Sind.

You realise that Pakistan was formed out of the lala republic? If you didn't know that, and by now, it is clear that you don't know certain of your body parts from a hole in the ground, read the India Independence Act.

And oh, by the way, Sind was one of the provinces of British India, the Crown Colony. The other provinces that formed Pakistan were the Punjab, the NWFP and Bengal. Remember that you learnt it here first.

Your only existence was due to China factor.

That is the neatest summary of 57 years of struggling for independence that I have seen so far. You deserve a PhD - for stupidity and ignorance.

And soon after China's independence you fought them and they slaughter you in Himalaya theater deep in your land.

Oh, so you don't know geography either? LOL. Figures. Why should history be your only victim?

Which class are you in?

 

[Stephen Cohen]

I am not discussing results of this supposed war. If only these two countries are left to fix this then war is inevitable. What the scope and outcome of this war are to be seen. You are right, we have seen what the military results of Kargil were.

In Kargil India fought with a LOT of self imposed restraint

Next time it will a no holds barred fight