How to counter Gulf threat to Pakistan's integrity ?

[KRAIT]

@Mosamania, I am impressed, you are damn good at history mate..

There is a reason he is a moderator.....He talks with solid backing and good restraint.

 

[Mosamania]

Nah man, keep on reading and discussing. You're probably the only Arab (and one highly educated and pretty decent Kuwaiti I know) who have been instrumental in changing my 'generalized' perceptions of Kuwait and Saudia. I mean not all of it, but I see things changing for the better in Saudia, and mostly it was thanks to you!

Rest of the Gulf, I'm still pissed with



Yeah, he definitely is.... Not just that, he is pretty patient and decent in articulating his replies!

 

[Hyperion]

LMAO....

The best-one today was Her Royal Banana Highness of Qatar.

By the way, to the point: How the hell do you manage to live with various conniving states in the Gulf?

Good night guys and gals...

Krait mate, you also better go and sleep... I mean for heavens sake, you're always online, what are you on?

 

[RazPaK]

I have met many arabs in my life and don't like the majority of them(especially morrocans), bit once you meet someone nice from KSA your entire perception of the people change. If arabs are against Pakistan then I would be at the frontlines to fight them. But my experience has led me to believe otherwise. Arabs are nice people and are humans , so there is no need to be racist and call them two faced.

 

[xyxmt]

Pakistan from its creation has made very unnatural alliances based on religion only. We have nothing in common with Arabs other than we are all muslim but as history has shown it time and time again that religion is never a binding force. All of us who are living outside Pakistan know that we interact more with Indian (hindus included) than we interact with Arabs or persians because we share same language, art, culture and music. So, Our natural alliance should have been with India but we screwed it up. We gave too much importance to Arabs who dont even consider us human now that they have petro dollars.

I have never met any Pakistani who has favorable opinion of Arabs yet at govt level we treat them like our brother. Its time to realign our foreign policy and have better relations with Iran and India for they are our neighbors and we have to live with them not with Arab badus

 

[KRAIT]

Pakistan from its creation has made very unnatural alliances based on religion only. We have nothing in common with Arabs other than we are all muslim but as history has shown it time and time again that religion is never a binding force. All of us who are living outside Pakistan know that we interact more with Indian (hindus included) than we interact with Arabs or persians because we share same language, art, culture and music. So, Our natural alliance should have been with India but we screwed it up. We gave too much importance to Arabs who dont even consider us human now that they have petro dollars.

I have never met any Pakistani who has favorable opinion of Arabs yet at govt level we treat them like our brother. Its time to realign our foreign policy and have better relations with Iran and India for they are our neighbors and we have to live with them not with Arab badus

I have tears in my eyes.....

@serious note.....appreciate your comment buddy. Think Iran-Pakistan-India all being in a strong alliance. These west and Gulf would have been.......you know the rest....But alas, it won't happen...

LMAO....

The best-one today was Her Royal Banana Highness of Qatar.

By the way, to the point: How the hell do you manage to live with various conniving states in the Gulf?

Good night guys and gals...

Krait mate, you also better go and sleep... I mean for heavens sake, you're always online, what are you on?

.........I have innate quality to be awake for straight 30 -40 hrs and only 8 hrs of sleep then.

 

[xyxmt]

I have met many arabs in my life and don't like the majority of them(especially morrocans), bit once you meet someone nice from KSA your entire perception of the people change. If arabs are against Pakistan then I would be at the frontlines to fight them. But my experience has led me to believe otherwise. Arabs are nice people and are humans , so there is no need to be racist and call them two faced.

when we talk about nations we dont talk about ordinary people, ordinary people are all nice but its the people who are at the helm of affairs

 

[genmirajborgza786]

You are making me feel as we have made a strategic blunder by not allowing a Soviet transit to Karachi and going to war instead. We should have allowed them to come into Karachi , only if we knew that communist soviets can be more of a trust worthy friend than the so called brothers from another mother.

trust me had ZAB lived for another five years Pak-Russia ties would have improved to a all new different level & would have yield enormous benefits to both Russia & Pakistan both strategically & economically after all the soviets desperately needed access to the hot waters & Pakistan being the gateway for this had a golden chance to cash it had it played its cards well.

 

[OrionHunter]

As far as i am concerned , Gulf states are part of a Indo US plan to disintegrate Pakistan.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...threat-pakistans-integrity.html#ixzz23CjTK757

Ah! Here we go again! Do you have any proof of an INDO-US plan to disintegrate Pakistan? Are you in possession of some top secret policy documents that detail this strategy? Or is this just some sort of a smoke screen that the Pakistani Establishment usually hides behind to cover its inability to clean their Augean stables and lay the blame on India for everything that goes wrong in Pakistan?

But I would tend to agree where the US of A is concerned. Here's why:

What is the American endgame in Balochistan? Is the US serious about an independent Balochistan? Or is it only using it as a strategy against Pakistan? A section within US considers Balochistan strategically important for three specific reasons:

1. An independent Balochistan would give access to Afghanistan and Central Asia from the port of Gwadar in the Makran coast. As of now, the access to Afghanistan is via Karachi and through the treacherous Khyber Pass. More than the physical problems, US is unable to work with Pakistan, in terms of keeping this route open for its strategic needs. With an independent Balochistan, it would be easier for US to land in the Gwadar Port, transfer goods across the Bolan Pass, reach Kabul via Kandahar, without much problem and with less investment.

2. The Chinese presence and investment in the Gwadar Port is not a secret and the objectives are well known. The Chinese have invested heavily in the Gwadar Port, to make it as an entry point from the Arabian Sea – all the way into China via the mainland of Pakistan and Karakoram Highway cutting across Gilgit and Baltistan into Khunjerab Pass and then into Xinjiang and the rest of China. The Chinese investments in Gilgit and Baltistan, especially in the infrastructural projects, support the above argument. The US of A does not want China to access the Arabia Sea for transporting goods and gas. As of now, the goods from and to China is primarily maritime and moves mainly through the Indian Ocean, Southeast Asia and then into China. If the Gwadar Port and Karakoram Highway becomes functional, China will short circuit the distance and become a Gulf power. What further upsets the American calculation is the fear that the Gwadar may become a military base for China, and not just a port for economic activities.

3. Balochistan shares borders with Iran, and there is a substantial Balochi presence in the western parts of Iran, especially in the Sistan province. The Balochi tribes in Iran have not been integrated well and have been fighting for their rights, though at a low profile. If an independent Balochistan could provide some space to US, it could use it not only against the Chinese presence, but also against Iran. A section within Iran already fear, that the Baloch unrest within their territory is fuelled from outside, mainly from the Pakistani territory.

Needless to say, the US of A is using the Gulf States to stoke the fires of separatism in Balochistan and will step in at opportune moment to drive in the final nail which could mean another 'Shock and Awe' operation to wrest Balochistan from Pakistan.

Most Indians would just sit back and watch the unraveling of and a further splitting of Pakistan with vicarious pleasure. After all, they would contend that Pakistan has been trying to split Kashmir away from India for the past three decades. This one would be a tit-for-tat by proxy, letting the Yanks do it for them!

So, why should India help the BLA when the Yanks and the Gulf States are doing it for them?

 

[SamranAli]

Place C-602 - C-802A - Babur & DH-10A batteries on the coast facing Dubai , Doha , Manama , send the payload description to the kings. If the diplomacy doesn't work , my logic might be wrong but when it comes to survival from 3 dimensional geographic threat environment the only sensible way to live becomes to live without rules.

We have no ambitions against any Arabs , many of us actually like them and we have no issues. Our issues are with the kings , if they don't stop supporting anti Pakistan elements and it comes down to "everyman for himself" scenario - we should be prepared to put a gun to these king's faces if necessary , they know we specialize in that. The history will only remember the victors and those who did everything right and played brother brother will be thrown into the dustbin of history.

Its not us putting their national security at risk , its them doing it to us so it becomes "legit self defense" , we have every right to have it and to exercise it if diplomacy fails.

Your idea is totally workable. Look at Iran it warn them agrresively.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

you know, Fateh let me tell you something


After Karachi--- Balochistan truly is a melting pot of Pakistan

Many Pashtuns (lower belt), various Iranic tribes as well as hazaras. Quetta (the capital) itself has probably more than half dozen different ethnic groups well entrenched in various sections of the city and of course from the days of the anti soviet jihad much influx of afghan whom settled and some even intermarried --this further diversified this mix. Regrettably, some Punjabis were forced to leave b/c paid terrorist thugs were blindly attacking them -- even without knowing their name or who they were and without having any enmity with them. Some Sindhis as well --including a female professor of the Quetta University who was loved and respected, her name was Nazima Talib remember the name...

I say like Karachi, Balochistan Province represents the true nature of Pakistan and that despite all the problems and issues being faced that are in need to be resolved (which a lot of media like to exaggerate for their own purposes, to TRY to damage and take jab at the will and morale and feeling of nationhood of Pakistani nation)

now on Omani Baloch, in terms of numbers --their numbers are so small. Let me tell you, Baloch are treated with much more respect which they deserve in Pakistan itself. Oman isnt like the other Gulfy countries. It has an old ancient culture and they value their old heritage; it isnt a desert full of guys with newfound wealth who wear a tight jeans and sandals and embrace 100% western culture (sorry if i sound a bit generalizing and cynical)...now even with that said, some of them do have some arrogant side to them and treat all non indigenous like second class. Many Makkranis in Oman and at the end of the day they know where their REAL home is. It isnt Muscat.

they can see their real home at night on the other side -- past the coast of Oman. "Baluchistan cause" --the one which your country backs whole-heartedly will NEVER see fruition, no matter HOW hard your R&AW tries.

I sympathize with Baloch cause. But talks of secession are out of the question let me assure you on that. I see your country's support of BLA and BRA as an act of war. indian are best advised to modify their thinking b/c as i said in my previous post --- 2 can play at these games.

 

[SamranAli]

but question is what solid steps should be taken to avoid and crush BLA.? On diplomatic level which can help us.? China, Russia, KSA?

Come on gwadar is not a good enough reason, get a better one. GCC countries rely on petroleum export for bulk of their income, not on income from port as such. Gwadar will not be able to export oil, so it wont compete with their ports.

They will run out of petrol, gas after years. They are concerned with the situation after that

 

[Ticker]

but question is what solid steps should be taken to avoid and crush BLA.? On diplomatic level which can help us.? China, Russia, KSA?

They will run out of petrol, gas after years. They are concerned with the situation after that

They will also run out of their importance as well.

 

[KingMamba]

They will also run out of their importance as well.

They will also lose their grip on their monarchy's.

 

[Secur]

They will also lose their grip on their monarchy's.

This is what they are more concerned about than the well being of their people and interests of the so called delusional " Ummah" ... Remember the fate of Ben Ali ? The man who literally did everything to eradicate Islam from Tunisia , looted billions and ruined the country for decades , In the end he got asylum in the KSA and Riyadh is refusing to extradite him despite several Interpol warrants ... Their throne is what they care about the most !