History of the looting of the Indian army in the war of liberation , and reasons of helping us (Bangladesh)

[VikingRaider]

So @The Ronin ,why did India ( so called imo ) help us in 1971?What is your opinion?

A straight forward reply will be very much appreciated and helpful. Thanks in advance!

 

[Baibars_1260]

Your city of Kolkata will collapse if Bangladeshi stop patronizing its businesses

"Your city " ? The Indian city of Calcutta will collapse if Bangladeshi stop patronize its business..."

Some comparisons between Calcutta and Bangladesh.
Not comparing Calcutta with Dhaka :

1. Calcutta GDP : $ 250.4 b ( Link )
Calcutta is the third richest city in South Asia

2. Bangladesh GDP : $302 b ( Link )

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

A good reference :
150 Richest Cities in the World by Comparison

My other post here is relevant :

@jamahir
@magra @Sharma Ji

It is remarkable how Bengali nationalism in India ( will repeat in India ) morphs over the era.

A few Wikifacts on Kolkata:
Calcutta or Kolkata today is home to 9,600 millionaires and 4 billionaires with a total wealth of $290 billion and is the third-largest urban economy of India.
In 1793 the East India company was strong enough to abolish rule, and assumed full sovereignty of the region. Under the company rule and later under the British Raj, Calcutta served as the capital of British-held territories in India until 1911, when its perceived geographical disadvantages, combined with growing nationalism in Bengal, led to a shift of the capital to New Delhi..
In fact even Burma ( Myanmar) was controlled from Calcutta.

Returning to Bengali Nationalism ( Indian) we had freedom fighters ( biplobi ) like Binay Badal and Dinesh and Bagha Jotin pre-independence. During the late independence struggle there was Subhas Bose, Then there was the peaceful period of Dr. B.C. Roy.
From 1969-1970 there was the elite Siddartha Shankar Ray during whose time the feared Sarboharas like Charu Majumdar, Kanu Sanyal, Jongal Santhal, Ajijul Hoque raised the slogan:
Amar bari tomar bari
Naxalbari ! Naxalbari !
(Trans: My and your home Naxalbari).

The China connection was made by the slogan :

Amar Chairman, Chairman Mao !
( Trans: Chairman Mao is our Chairman! )

Slogans daubed with the hammer and sickle logo on the walls of the
upzilla offices in the Doars area, the coalfields of Ranigunj.
The Sarboharas controlled the coalfields, tea gardens and university campuses of Jadavapur, Calcutta, and Durgapur. The Calcutta coffee shop was filled with starry eyed unshaven Marxists in khadi kurta pajamas carrying a jhola and smoking one rupee a packet Charminar cigarettes discussing quantum mechanics and revolution in the same breath.
Raising a clenched fist they would sing.
"Jago Jago Jago Sarbohara "
( Trans: Those who have nothing left to loose, Arise ! )

Then 1977 brought in Jyoti Basu, Buddhadev Bhattacharya and others. They ruled for 23 years till 2011 before firebrand Didi toppled the CPM forever.
The wheel in West Bengal is turning full circle, With the departure of Didi and Dilip Ghosh's imminent victory, West Bengal will return to its
19th century Bengal Renaissance roots, and will have dumped Center and Left of Center politics forever...

Balo Balo Balo Shobe ...
( Trans: Chant, Chant, all ..)

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The Indian looters did not leave out the toilet bowls either. India, our absolute ally (!!!), also looted huge sums of money and other aid provided by various international organizations during and after the war.

now that is tragic
but understandable too.

 

[Baibars_1260]

I am really interested to hear the details of your "Crushing Indian Military response" that you have been propagating non-stop.

@magra
Details are in the same thread from which you are quoting selectively.
These are listed below
i will repeat that realistically there is no possibility of India and Bangladesh ever going to war. There have been posts from ill-informed guests from Bangladesh claiming that the "chicken's neck " will be secured and India's 7 states will be captured.
The motivation for such mis- information is to convince equally ill-informed Pakistani PDF members that Bangladesh is Pakistan's ally in its defence against India. This canard is being propagated here under the false assertions of "Islamic brotherhood" . There is no "Islamic brotherhood " anywhere least of all between Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Pakistan and Bangladesh are two separate independent sovereign nations with no geographical borders and completely different linguistic and cultural identities. Both have separate bi-lateral relations with India.

Bangladesh has no territorial or political issues with India.

The Pakistan and India relationship is different.
Pakistan and India are enemy nations with a shared border, involved in longstanding simmering tensions, which risk spiraling into nuclear war. The enmity between Pakistan and India is primarily based on religion and there is no solution evident at this time or in the future because of India's desire for revenge based on a perception of a "1000 year era of wrongs" . The religious animosity is permanent and intense.
The only reason a nuclear war has not broken out is because so far India's ballistic missile defenses are not robust enough to withstand a Pakistani response that may survive an Indian attempt at a decapitating first strike. However foreign and neutral experts on South Asian affairs agree that a nuclear war between Pakistan and India is very likely in the near future.

Pakistan and India's permanent state of war should be of no concern to Bangladesh, even though Bangladesh's MEA routinely parrots India's stand . No other nation in South Asia does this but this is of little concern to Pakistan.

Bangladeshi guests here try to exhibit a macho attitude of sympathy with Pakistani members with regard to issues with India.
Why Bangladeshi members indulge in this gross hypocrisy is not really clear. It can't be attributed to ignorance because members like yourself who are otherwise extremely well informed also take up this stand.

The only possible explanation is that intelligent Bangladeshi members here would like to provoke a false feeling of "Islamic brotherhood " amongst the those ill-informed Pakistanis to strengthen their voices of of religious fundamentalism. A false religious fundamentalism must be promoted to undercut Pakistani nationalism and self respect.
So Bangladeshi members here would like to see Pakistan implode under religious fundamentalism.

I would sincerely request Bangladeshi PDF members to stop expressing false sympathy with Pakistan, in its situation with India. No one is really fooled, by this hypocrisy.

On the details you asked:

@PanzerKiel , @PAKISTANFOREVER

Thank you, I just love war gaming. Far more comfortable here,

So let us look at the facts and first do a numbers game.
Then we can do equipment, tactics, support, and actual scenarios such as house to house fighting in Dhanmondi or Uttara.

Bangladesh Armed Forces Manpower

1. Bangladesh Army : Total manpower strength : 204,000 personnel

2. Bangladesh Border Guards : Total manpower : 50, 000 personnel

3. Bangladesh Navy. : Total manpower : 25,000 personnel

4. Bangladesh Air Force. : Total manpower : 17,000 personnel

---------------------------------------------
Total : 296,000

----------------------------------------------

Indian para-military manpower strength

( State Armed Police such as Nagaland Armed Police, Jharkhand , Kerala, Rashtriya Rifles, have been left out )

• Assam Rifles (AR) CPMF- 63,747 personnel (led by Indian Army officers and AR cadre officer reporting to the Ministry of Home Affairs)
• Border Security Force (BSF)CAPF - 257,363 personnel
• Central Industrial Security Force (CISF) CAPF- 144,418 personnel
• Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) CAPF- 313,678 personnel
• Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) CAPF- 89,432 personnel
• National Security Guard (NSG) CAPF- 7,350 personnel
• Sashastra Seema Bal (SSB) - 76,337 personnel
• state armed forces
• Bihar Military Police 16 battalions 16,000 personnel
• Haryana Armed Police. 5 battalions 4500 personnel
• Mizoram Armed Police. 8 battalions 8000 personnel
• Rajasthan Armed Constabulary 14 battalions 14,000 personnel
• Eastern Frontier Rifles 3000 personnel
• Provincial Armed Constabulary 30 battalions 30,000 personnel

Total : 1,027,825

Even if 1/3 of India's paramilitary forces are deployed they still outnumber the entire strength of Bangladesh Armed Forces.
These units like the BSF and ITBP are battle hardened facing Pakistan and China) and equipped with aircraft, ( both fixed wing and rotary) , armored fighting vehicles, anti-tank guided missiles, manpads and light artillery. A section are paradrop capable.

In Pakistan we know what they are like. Our Rangers and Scouts face them all the time. Not bad at all, but not much trouble either, despite the fact they outnumber us 4:1 as deployed.
The Indian Army is the real stuff. Those boys know their job.
Based on your BGB Chief's statement your BGB seems to have a tough time dealing with the BSF.

My last post on the topic to your response:

In case you don't know some of India's paramilitary have EW vehicles based on the Russian Tigre design to jam communications.These are currently used to jam terrorist communications and disrupt drones but are perfectly capable of jamming air to ground communications also. Russia used these very effectively in Crimea and jammed communications on the Ukrainian air bases. None of the Ukranian aircraft took off.


Glad you admit your ignorance.
S300s don't need to enter Bangladesh. There is enough range to cover Bangladesh from Indian territory. Older Migs can be gunned down with manpads, especially when making a low pass strafing run. Pakistan's Northern Light Infantry in Kargil shot down a Mig 27 and Mig 21 using manpads. Syrian Migs have fallen to manpads too. Which is why modern strike aircraft need to stay high using JDAMs and targeting pods. Ideally Bangladesh could use drones



Sure, but read my kicker here, Just as Russia had several Ukranian air force generals compromised, and made the Ukrainian air force inactive there are unfortunately plenty of generals in your country who will sell their souls for a house in Pandara Park New Delhi. Guess who lived there for five years? In any self respecting country any general making a statement blaming its citizens for getting shot by the enemy would have been fired. So that should tell you how rotten your armed forces are today.
Just as your BGB does nothing and advises its citizens not to get shot, your air force will be flying Tejas planes with an Indian kill switch in them. For all you know there may already be kill switches installed in your Migs by the Russians who sold them to you in deference to India.
So yes we are discounting your ramshackle BAF as a factor in your nations defence.
@PAKISTANFOREVER

 

[pakpride00090]

@magra
Details are in the same thread from which you are quoting selectively.
These are listed below
i will repeat that realistically there is no possibility of India and Bangladesh ever going to war. There have been posts from ill-informed guests from Bangladesh claiming that the "chicken's neck " will be secured and India's 7 states will be captured.
The motivation for such mis- information is to convince equally ill-informed Pakistani PDF members that Bangladesh is Pakistan's ally in its defence against India. This canard is being propagated here under the false assertions of "Islamic brotherhood" . There is no "Islamic brotherhood " anywhere least of all between Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Pakistan and Bangladesh are two separate independent sovereign nations with no geographical borders and completely different linguistic and cultural identities. Both have separate bi-lateral relations with India.

Bangladesh has no territorial or political issues with India.

The Pakistan and India relationship is different.
Pakistan and India are enemy nations with a shared border, involved in longstanding simmering tensions, which risk spiraling into nuclear war. The enmity between Pakistan and India is primarily based on religion and there is no solution evident at this time or in the future because of India's desire for revenge based on a perception of a "1000 year era of wrongs" . The religious animosity is permanent and intense.
The only reason a nuclear war has not broken out is because so far India's ballistic missile defenses are not robust enough to withstand a Pakistani response that may survive an Indian attempt at a decapitating first strike. However foreign and neutral experts on South Asian affairs agree that a nuclear war between Pakistan and India is very likely in the near future.

Pakistan and India's permanent state of war should be of no concern to Bangladesh, even though Bangladesh's MEA routinely parrots India's stand . No other nation in South Asia does this but this is of little concern to Pakistan.

Bangladeshi guests here try to exhibit a macho attitude of sympathy with Pakistani members with regard to issues with India.
Why Bangladeshi members indulge in this gross hypocrisy is not really clear. It can't be attributed to ignorance because members like yourself who are otherwise extremely well informed also take up this stand.

The only possible explanation is that intelligent Bangladeshi members here would like to provoke a false feeling of "Islamic brotherhood " amongst the those ill-informed Pakistanis to strengthen their voices of of religious fundamentalism. A false religious fundamentalism must be promoted to undercut Pakistani nationalism and self respect.
So Bangladeshi members here would like to see Pakistan implode under religious fundamentalism.

I would sincerely request Bangladeshi PDF members to stop expressing false sympathy with Pakistan, in its situation with India. No one is really fooled, by this hypocrisy.

On the details you asked:



My last post on the topic to your response:

Good post.

Also , I would like to add, Pakistan's current atomic arsenal is not good enough to completely destroy India. The reason why India still doesn't feel as threatened is probably because of that fact.

Pakistan needs megaton hydrogen bombs in hundreds and few "backyard" bombs for worst case scenario. Anything less than that is akin to inviting an invasion.

 

[magra]

@magra
This topic was discussed on a different thread which was still open. For the record I don't think that Bangladesh and India are adversaries but there are different opinions.
You might wish to check it out, I have nothing more to add either on this thread or the one referenced below,

First of all, it is unlikely that China will make the mistake of actually attacking the Silliguri corridor with its ground troops. There is only a narrow strip of Chinese land between Sikkim and Bhutan from where it can launch an invasion. If it does, it will be fairly easy for Indian troops to enter from Sikkim on one side and Bhutan (Indian troops are stationed there) on other to encircle and trap Chinese troops.

Nonetheless, I feel India should use the present friendly relations with BD to sign some kind of security pact with it, so that the army and airforce are allowed use of BD territory for India's defence in case of a major conflict with China.

I disagree that it will be easy for India to capture BD. In 1971, it took months of preparation for Indian army to attack W. Pak troops where local population was hostile to it. Now BD army with the support of local population would be a formidable opposition. It is better to aim for their co-operation through treaty rather than through subjugation.

 

[Baibars_1260]

Good post.

Also , I would like to add, Pakistan's current atomic arsenal is not good enough to completely destroy India. The reason why India still doesn't feel as threatened is probably because of that fact.

Pakistan needs megaton hydrogen bombs in hundreds and few "backyard" bombs for worst case scenario. Anything less than that is akin to inviting an invasion.

Thanks, for appreciating. i was merely putting in the nuclear factor to educate our Bangladeshi guests still thinking of the era of the infantryman wading through a paddy field carrying a SMLE with a bayonet. A fixation with the past is non-productive.

But your point is well appreciated.

We have separate threads on this and I would like to discuss Pakistan's thermonuclear and tritium boosted weapons development with you.
I also believe that even the smallest weapon Pakistan can field is still unacceptable to India.

India-Pakistan Nuclear War Would Leave 125 Million People Dead

The tragic result of two adversaries armed to the teeth with more than 280 nuclear warheads between them. Here's What You Need to Remember: There are even questions about New Delhi rethinking its nuclear no-first-use doctrinePakistan’s nuclear doctrine remains purposely ambiguous, with the...

defence.pk

and

Case for Nuclear Civil Defense Preparation.

The case for preparations for surviving a nuclear attack. "It will never happen" is not a good answer to "What if...? " It can happen, and likely will. Pakistan is in extreme danger of a preemptive nuclear strike. The dooms day clock from the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists lists Pakistan as one...

defence.pk

 

[VikingRaider]

Outsiders, stop your hilourios propaganda prophecy regarding Bangladesh.

What will happen with Bangladesh , who is our ally , with whom war is highly unlikely , all are just BS .

IN THE END we know Bangladesh better than some aliens ; our defence forces know more than us.

So it's our business , stop unwanted and uninvited advise. No mainstream Bangladeshi ( who aren't chetona khors and jamatis ) will be convinced.

 

[magra]

Outsiders, stop your hilourios propaganda prophecy regarding Bangladesh.

What will happen with Bangladesh , who is our ally , with whom war is highly unlikely , all are just BS .

IN THE END we know Bangladesh better than some aliens ; our defence forces know more than us.

So it's our business , stop unwanted and uninvited advise. No mainstream Bangladeshi ( who aren't chetona khors and jamatis ) will be convinced.

If this was an meant to be only an internal business between you and BD army, you would not have started this thread on a public forum. You cant cry foul now when your post has been exposed as fake propaganda.

 

[Baibars_1260]

First of all, it is unlikely that China will make the mistake of actually attacking the Silliguri corridor with its ground troops. There is only a narrow strip of Chinese land between Sikkim and Bhutan from where it can launch an invasion. If it does, it will be fairly easy for Indian troops to enter from Sikkim on one side and Bhutan (Indian troops are stationed there) on other to encircle and trap Chinese troops.

Agree. The Chinese are more concerned with taking swathes of Arunachal, and possibly Tawang like they did the last time.
However there are multiple posts suggesting the "chicken's neck" is a walkover for BD-China "fantasy operation" during a "two-front" war when India is simultaneously fighting Pakistan in the west.

Nonetheless, I feel India should use the present friendly relations with BD to sign some kind of security pact with it, so that the army and airforce are allowed use of BD territory for India's defence in case of a major conflict with China.

There are already multiple agreements in place to ensure Indian military logistics . A violation of these treaties by any government in Bangladesh is remote. In fact it is very likely that with the present political leadership, Bangladesh will be fighting Pakistan on India's side though only symbolically for optics.
Checkout the thread that was started:

The Bangladesh factor in a future Pakistan India conflict.

The Bangladesh factor in a future Pakistan India conflict. Can Bangladeshi "neutrality" be taken for granted? Is it far fetched to assume Bangladesh is not neutral, and does pose a very minuscule but still possible threat to Pakistan? Let's look at the facts: 1.0 Overall picture: Bangladesh...

defence.pk

I disagree that it will be easy for India to capture BD. In 1971, it took months of preparation for Indian army to attack W. Pak troops where local population was hostile to it. Now BD army with the support of local population would be a formidable opposition. It is better to aim for their co-operation through treaty rather than through subjugation.

Disagree
Even the isolated, under-equipped, and demoralized West Pakistani forces in 1971 was far superior to anything Bangladesh has developed or fielded since. The Bangladesh Armed forces couldn't handle Shanti Bahuni insurgents ( Link ) on their own territory and have severe discipline and corruption problems with several bloody coups and assassinations. The Al Jazeera report ( Link ) shows how corrupt and unprofessional its armed forces are. It is not a popular people's army. The entire BD population's support for it's own armed forces cannot be taken fior granted. Would Bangladeshi Hindus and Chakmas fight an Indian occupation? There are plenty of left wing Bangladeshi elements who have long sought a merger with India. The left wing Bangladeshi elements know that Bangladesh is facing an environmental and demographic problem with climate change resulting in a loss of 20% of its land in the next 25 years. A section of the Bangladeshi population can only move northwards to disperse into India . This is obviously not possible due to the fact that Bangladesh and India are two separate countries. Thus If Bangladesh had merged with India in 1971 the Bangladeshi population could technically move anywhere inside India.

 

[magra]

there are multiple posts suggesting the "chicken's neck" is a walkover for BD-China "fantasy operation" during a "two-front" war when India is simultaneously fighting Pakistan in the west.

People with spare time like to create fantasies. The mountaneous terrain of the area does not allow airforce to come in. Only ground army invading through a narrow strip stands no chance against Indian army units from both sides. At best, they can attempt this as a tactic to divert Indian forces to this area and then launch a real attack on Tawang.

There are already multiple agreements in place to ensure Indian military logistics . A violation of these treaties by any government in Bangladesh is remote.

Not aware of any such agreement that will ensure Indian military logistics in BD. Can you please give me links.

Even the isolated, under-equipped, and demoralized West Pakistani forces in 1971 was far superior to anything Bangladesh has developed or fielded since. The Bangladesh Armed forces couldn't handle Shanti Bahuni insurgents ( Link ) on their own territory and have severe discipline and corruption problems with several bloody coups and assassinations.

Pakistan has seen many more coups and assassination attempts (on Musharraf, Zia). I am not sure if this is a parameter of how strong the army is. In any case, even a limited strength is good enough for defending marshy lands.

The entire BD population's support for it's own armed forces cannot be taken fior granted. Would Bangladeshi Hindus and Chakmas fight an Indian occupation? There are plenty of left wing Bangladeshi elements who have long sought a merger with India.

Hindus are less than 10% of BD population. Also, are you saying BD Hindus are not BD patriots?
Similarly, do you think Indian muslims will support Pak army in case of an Indo-Pak conflict?

 

[VikingRaider]

If this was an meant to be only an internal business between you and BD army, you would not have started this thread on a public forum. You cant cry foul now when your post has been exposed as fake propaganda.

There is a saying in Bengali and that is , "Thakur ghore ke re , Ami to kola khai ni" , meaning a guilty mind is always suspicious.

Read my msg again and then reply with your nonsense if you are still interested.

This message was not for India and Indians.

For India and Indians , I haven't changed and won't change my position , and that is , "India was the enemy of Bangladesh, is the enemy of Bangladesh , and will remain the enemy of Bangladesh and India is the biggest threat for Bangladesh in future".It's loud and clear. Now Indians are welcome to argue.

But no Pakistani/Pakistani flag holder can say that there is no possibility of fighting between Bangladesh and India; simply they can't say any prophecy based on their preconceived ideas , period.

Because they don't know our country, so the message was actually for some Pakistanis who are trying to do prophecy on Bangladesh.

But it looks you are too naive to understand that message and taken toward you.

@marga

 

[magra]

There is a saying in Bengali and that is , "Thakur ghore ke re , Ami to kola khai ni" , meaning a guilty mind is always suspicious.

Read my msg again and then reply with your nonsense.

This message was not for India and Indians.

After being slapped by Ronin, do you still have any standing to advise anyone?

 

[Homo Sapiens]

Some comparisons between Calcutta and Bangladesh.
Not comparing Calcutta with Dhaka :

1. Calcutta GDP : $ 250.4 b ( Link )
Calcutta is the third richest city in South Asia

2. Bangladesh GDP : $302 b ( Link )

Do you use any common sense while writing? Entire Indian nominal GDP now stand at 2833 Billion Dollar. How Kolkata can have 250 billion out it? Even entire West Bengal nominal GDP would not be 250 billion. West Bengal has 6% of GDP share of India. Your wikipedia link do not give any reference. Obviously 250 billion is a deliberate manipulation by someone who edited that wikipedia page. I urge you not to give any wikipedia link. Most of the page in wikipedia are not protected and anybody can edit those at whims. Here is the reliable like. Indian nominal GDP is 2833 billion Dollar while Bangladesh's is 338 billion Dollar

Report for Selected Countries and Subjects

www.imf.org

 

[Homo Sapiens]

The Bangladesh Armed forces couldn't handle Shanti Bahuni insurgents ( Link )

your link do not provide any evidence that Bangladesh army could not handle Shanti bahini. It just lead us to wikipedia article about Shanti Bahini. Give us any credible evidence which prove, Bangladesh army could not handle Shanti Bahini? Shanti Bahini was a small insurgent group engaged in ambush killing, kidnapping Bengali civilian population in CHT and engaged in extortion from Tribal people there. If this means, Bangladesh army could not handle them then same logic also suggest that, Pak army could not handle Taliban as they imposed a reign of Terror in Pakistan killing 70,000. This put Pak army utterly incompetent and miserable. Do you agree?