Hatf-VIII Ra'ad II (ALCM) | Updates, News & Discussion

[The Deterrent]

Sir with due respect you really think these are the real maximum ranges of the above mentioned missiles?

Absolutely.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Is it just me or is it actually longer than the previous version?

For those who missed the parade ..

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

By they way in parade they took some SPADA missile systems off line for parade usage , seems like we have sufficient replacement now that we can easily bring SPADA missile for Prarade and demonstration

I thought it was certainly fresh to see the SPADA displayed in Parade

Did anyone else noticed that subtle suggestion by Pakistan Military Establishment , I am sure it was noticed across the border

 

[The SC]

ever heard of CX-1 my friend ? we can buy that too from china...it is the chinese missile from which india stole design for brahmos

There are two initial versions of the CX-1; the CX-1A ship-borne system and CX-1B road-mobile land-based system, equipped with a unitary semi-armor-piercing warhead. It also reportedly has a second land-attack function, for which it can have a unitary fragmentation-blast or penetration warhead. A land-based road-mobile unit would be composed of one command vehicle, one support vehicle, three launching vehicles, three transporter-loader vehicles, and 12 canisters for two-wave attacks. A submarine-launched version is also suspected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CX-1_Missile_Systems

 

[Safriz]

To add to your excellent point that most people are missing out on:
A crucial system on any cruise missile is the inertial navigation system. The range may not just be limited by fuel quantity, fuel type, or engine fuel consumption, but also by the acceptable drift in INS (in a gps jammed environment) over the "maximum range". This increase in range of babur and raad could be a reflection of an improvement of sensors and filtering (among other things).

I am pretty sure the NPO turbo jets are the same as always used with babur and Raad.
The increased range may be down to use of Composites in Fuselage , reducing the weight and thus increasing weight.

 

[Safriz]

The camouflage makes this missile look quite ugly. In terms of aerodynamics it seems bulky. In my view, they should have used different color scheme. Actually, all Pakistani missiles have a very odd color schemes. Babur is orange and the Hatf series are jungle camouflage. Very odd selection of colors.



What's the major difference between this missile and Brahmos? Any technical differences?



They need to use as much composites as possible. This will reduce weight and make the missile more compact. Not sure how credible Pakistani composite technology is but this is an area they can cooperate with china and Turkey through the JF-17 and then scale it down to cruise missiles etc

For these subsonic missiles you dont need ultra high strength Carbon fiber. Good old resin based Glass fiber also does the same job.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Extended range of Raad II definitely gives boost to strike deeper into enemy territory.
Range is now equal to Indian Planned Barhamos missile which will have 600 Km range.

Now just keen to see two more developments in Missile tech
1- ABM
2- ASBM
I am sure work is being carried out on both platform.

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

Hi,
Some points from my side

1. Those claiming that Pakistan missile system is nothing but paint job of Chinese technology. I would like to say, that Pakistan's missile program is moving on a very calculated, logical development path. RAAD-II is an example showing the development of newer version. That clearly show that somewhere, some great minds are at work. More surprises may come as and when required.
2. We Pakistanis, while engaging the Indian trolls over here never should indulge in nuclear response threat. Please try to understand Pakistan's conventional capabilities are enough to handle all threats emanating from East. We have shortfalls, so do the Indians. Use of TNW will be a last resort.
3.Recently there are some news regarding change in Indian nuclear doctrine. This is a clear and crisp case of nuclear blackmail. It would force Pakistan to up the ante. I am sure, Pakistani strategist would have already worked out such scenarios. If (God forbid) Pakistan is pushed in a situation like that, then why use TNW to counter force Why not go full throttle for counter value (the mindset, which Indian establishment is not willing to change). Smart statesmanship and diplomatic offense is needed to tell the world of nuclear blackmail, India is doing.
4. Cruise missile can carry nuclear. But the answer is not that simple.
It will all go down to the rule of employment. For a layman like me, BMs with CEP of ~<25m are ideal for nuclear strike. The CMs with CEP~<10m are more ideal for counter force roles.
Considering their stealth capabilities+accurecy, Pakistani CMs/SoW (Babur,RAAD etc.) would be employed on
1. Radars, ABM, AD
2. Command & Control
3. Air bases
4. High value industrial/communication

If in the starting 48 hours, Pakistan is able to take out mere 50% of Indian AD, the entire course of war would be altered.

For hint: Ever have a street fight? The boy who has a cool mind and less aggressive prevail in the end. Excessive release of Adrenaline leads to breath out. Muhammad Ali (the great boxer) Rope-a-dope strategy

 

[The SC]

Will Raad and Babur reach the 1000+ km range benchmark?

 

[WaLeEdK2]

Will Raad and Babur reach the 1000+ km range benchmark?

Let's hope so. Naval Babur is supposed to be finished soon. Hopefully everything goes as planned for that.

 

[razgriz19]

For those who missed the parade ..

The missile has definitely become longer. But i don't think it's just the fuel tank, they may have replaced the engine as well. Does anyone have any idea what engines they might be using on these?

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Will Raad and Babur reach the 1000+ km range benchmark?

with a good efficient turbofan engine why not

 

[The SC]

with a good efficient turbofan engine why not

Something like the Williams F107 used on the Tomahawk

 

[Itachi]

Will Raad and Babur reach the 1000+ km range benchmark?

I presume both missiles have reached the 1,000 km benchmark & beyond. It's been 12 years since Babur-I came out & 10 years since Ra'ad-I.

I suspect that most of the capabilities we are seeing today had already been worked on & perfected years ago.

1) It takes 3-5 years to increase the range of any CM from 200/300/450-700/900/1000 km. This has been the experience of all nations that have designed or co-produced CM's. So Pakistan too (using this theory) had already mastered the 700-km benchmark. So, by now, it must have passed or been at the 1000-km benchmark. Same goes for Ra'ad-I.

2) Babur-II & Babur-III were publicly introduced merely months apart. Both CM types have different feature & different parameters + capabilities. Even if 2 different set of personnel's were working on the 2 different CM's, it would still take them each different amount of time before they are both finished (design, implementation, execution, prototyping, test runs, etc). This again leads to the conclusion that these CM's & their capabilities were already harnessed months (if not years) before their release to the public domain.

3) Ra'ad-II's increase of range from 350 km to 550 km is not a significant gain (at least according to me). The amount of years spent should have meant the increase of range to at least 700-1,000 km by now. A 200 km increase over a period of 10 years is simply unthinkable. Unless, that is, they deliberately decreased the range for public consumption or have developed a Ra'ad-III & Ra'ad-IV with significant increase in range (700 km for III & 1000 km for IV).

This is all just my opinion. Take it with a pinch of salt.


So, what we should all be expecting is what they are currently cooking or have cooked.

 

[Basel]

Brahmos can be launched from the air, CX-1 not yet, but it can be launched from submarines..

There is no need of air launched version because YJ-12 with 400km range and even ARM version is already in service with Chinese military.

An export version called CM-302 is now available too.

http://www.janes.com/article/65364/china-offers-export-version-of-yj-12-supersonic-anti-ship-missile