HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[Arik]

CAN ANY ONE TELL HOW MANY COMPONENTS IN LCH ARE INDIAN OR IF ITS JUST SAME OLD STORY LIKE ALH DHRUV (OLD WINE IN NEW BOTTLE) .
I CAN BET THE WEAPON PLATFORM(ROCKET PODS TO BE INTEGRATED) IS IMPORTED JUST LIKE THEY DID WITH ALH.NOW OUR RESPECTED INDIAN MEMBERS WILL ARGUE "WE DEVELOPED HELENA(NAAG)" THEN QUESTION ARISE IS IT PROVEN. OF JUST IN TESTING PHASE JUST LIKE OLD DODO STORY(BARKING DOGS NEVER BYTES) .

Can u tell me how many aircrafts China has Designed on its own.Every chinese euipment is copied.
Components are not the issue here.Boeing is an american company ,but hardly any of the components for the 787 are manufactured in USA.F-18 is an american plane but India manufactures its belly doors.Airbus is a european company but India manufactures doors for the A-320.

 

[imran iqbal]

CAN ANY ONE TELL HOW MANY COMPONENTS IN LCH ARE INDIAN OR IF ITS JUST SAME OLD STORY LIKE ALH DHRUV (OLD WINE IN NEW BOTTLE) .
I CAN BET THE WEAPON PLATFORM(ROCKET PODS TO BE INTEGRATED) IS IMPORTED JUST LIKE THEY DID WITH ALH.NOW OUR RESPECTED INDIAN MEMBERS WILL ARGUE "WE DEVELOPED HELENA(NAAG)" THEN QUESTION ARISE IS IT PROVEN. OF JUST IN TESTING PHASE JUST LIKE OLD DODO STORY(DOGS NEVER BYTES) .

While you guys are at comparing LCH with WZ-10 and all the foreign parts and R&D, let me set the record straight

The origins of WZ-10 date as far back as 1979, when China began to explore ways of countering the advance of large enemy armour formations that would attack in great numbers.

I hope some Chinese members would be ashamed to call LCA a failed project now citing the painfully long development period of WZ-10

While attempting to import foreign attack helicopters resulted in failure, domestic research continued to reveal the shortcomings of China's current fleet of helicopters exposed by war games.

Foreign components in ALH, eh???

After the continuous failures in introducing heavier helicopters of foreign origin to China, the 6-ton class China Medium Helicopter (CHM) program was started in 1994 by China, with the 602nd and 608th Research Institutes as the leading designers. Under this ostensibly civilian program, various key western helicopter manufacturers provided considerable technical assistance to the later WZ-10 development program, including Eurocopter (rotor installation design consultancy), Pratt & Whitney Canada (PT6C turboshaft engine) and Agusta Westland (transmission)
Some foreign assistance from South Africa has been confirmed, which provided limited help in the area of flight stability based on the experience from designing the Denel AH-2 Rooivalk. South Africa refused further Chinese requests for assistance and no contact was made after 2001.

And oh yeah, DRDO or my chinese friend who put out nicely, DODO, needs soul searching for himself. Delays..Delays and more delays

The repeated failures in obtaining foreign attack helicopters reinforced feelings that China had no choice but to ignore foreign options and develop its own such aircraft and work on the WZ-10 accelerated. In the same year, HAMC transferred most of its production responsibilities to CAIC of AVIC II. The official reason given was excessive workload; HAMC was busy producing the HC120 and Harbin Z-9, as well as other fixed wing aircraft such as the Harbin Y-12, and thus was stretched to the limit. However, many speculated that HAMC was not performing well enough due to rigid and ineffective Soviet-style management practices, believed to have caused the company to go into debt.

HAMC was in debt?? Holysh1t

. It was decided that the WZ-10 program was too important to be run by HAMC, so a more stable contractor was sought and CAIC was selected. HAMC still retained responsibility for production of certain sub-systems and components, for which it could utilize experience gained from manufacturing parts for foreign helicopters and fixed wing aircraft such as the Embraer ERJ 145 family.

Avionics

Although foreign technologies are utilized (particularly French and Israeli, as rumored), this is limited to hardware only

Flight instrumentation

There are two configurations of the flight instrumentation for WZ-10, one developed from similar foreign system (rumored to be French), and the other one is indigenously developed, and both configurations share the same holographic head-up display. The difference in layout between the two configurations is that in one configuration, there are three color LCD multi-function displays (MFD), while the other, these are replaced by two larger LCD MFDs. It’s not clear which one is originated from foreign system and which is indigenously developed, but it’s reported that the practice of having different configurations thanks to the modular design is for export purposes, to fit the potential customer countries’ pilots’ habits. However, there is a rumor that China initially lacked the faith in its domestic system during the early stage of the development of WZ-10, due to the backward Chinese industrial capability at the time, so a backup was developed in parallel as a precaution

Cockpit

The bottom and sides of the cockpit are protected by composite armor, and so are the engines and the fuel tank located in the middle of the fuselage. It is rumored that titanium armor was developed for the WZ-10, but this had to be given up because of the weight. But this problem may be solved as more powerful engines become available in the future.

Propulsion

The modular design of WZ-10 enables it to adopt a number of turboshaft engines. However, the multiple choices of engines have much more to do with the inability of Chinese industry to provide the necessary power plants for WZ-10 in time than the success of modular design concept. At least three type of turboshaft engines have been successfully tested for WZ-10, all of them foreign built. Russian Klimov VK-2500 turboshaft engine that powers Mil Mi-17s sold to China is among the ones used, and so are the Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C-67C that powers civilian helicopters of western origin in Chinese service. Ukrainian Motor-Sich TV3-117 that powers Mil Mi-28 has also successfully tested, and Ukrainians are helping Chinese to develop its own indigenous turboshaft engine. It’s rumored that European MTR390 that powers Eurocopter Tiger has also been selected, but this cannot be confirmed. Due to the delay in the developing of Chinese domestic engines, all prototypes and pre-production series of WZ-10 are powered by foreign engines.

Wow, such a shameful record and Chinese troll on LCH thread with impunity

The future, long-term engines for the WZ-10 will be the domestic WZ-9 (WZ = Wo Zhou, 涡&#36724, designed by the 602nd Research Institute, with Ukrainian and Russian assistance.Wozhou-9 is the least powerful engine out of the five tested for WZ-10, WZ-10 is not stealthy, but careful attentions have been given to reduce its electro-magnetic characteristics to reduce the probability of being detected. Another planned measure is to incorporate laser altimeter pioneered by Israel, which would reduce the probability of intercept by enemy’s electronic support measures in comparison to traditional radar altimeter, which emits radio/radar signals, while laser is far less prone to interception.

Cannon

The largest caliber of chain gun carried by WZ-10 is a 30 mm automatic gun, a Chinese development of the Russian 2A72 autocannon for aircraft use. One of the primary reasons to adopt the 2A72 30 mm gun for aerial use is its high reliability, and according to Russian claim, the failure rate of 2A72 is nearly zero. The most powerful autocannon that can be mounted on the WZ-10 is the Chinese reverse-engineered 25 mm M242 Bushmaster adopted for helicopter use.

CAIC WZ-10 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

31 years of R&D coupled with billions of yuan wasted on reverse engineered piece of Junk and you are ranting about LCH ?? Why don't bring your own house in order before spewing out your prejudice here idiot.

 

[AVADI]

CAN ANY ONE TELL HOW MANY COMPONENTS IN LCH ARE INDIAN OR IF ITS JUST SAME OLD STORY LIKE ALH DHRUV (OLD WINE IN NEW BOTTLE) .
I CAN BET THE WEAPON PLATFORM(ROCKET PODS TO BE INTEGRATED) IS IMPORTED JUST LIKE THEY DID WITH ALH.NOW OUR RESPECTED INDIAN MEMBERS WILL ARGUE "WE DEVELOPED HELENA(NAAG)" THEN QUESTION ARISE IS IT PROVEN. OF JUST IN TESTING PHASE JUST LIKE OLD DODO STORY(BARKING DOGS NEVER BYTES) .

Still better than Old wine in newly painted old bottle.

P.s:Go easy on the CAPS

 

[Arik]

can you provide a credible source other than some blogs

http://business-standard.com/india/news/.../389650

 

[KEETARP]

is this the reasion if keeping it under weight(high air field of ladakh),but i thought it was india's first dedicated attack helo (there primary mission is of tank busters) do ladakh region have place for tank scenerio ?
as far as i know in that thin air environment this helo will have more difficulties than your super sonic jets. reamber when your airforce tried mi17 as attack role in kargil & later shot down by pak sam & later IAF zeroed only on fighter jets.

in high altitude helos like puma,chetek with munition add on will work beter(even tough very easy to get shot) than these armored copters.

Nope you are wrong - Tank buster is MIl-35 and next will be AH64 longbow.
Secondly Mi-17 is not attack chopper its A Medium Lift Chopper , it does not have any EW suite , no countermeasures , no RWR , no MAWS , so it got shot down
LCH is created to work in dense EW environment, with extreme Manuverability
With latest EW suite from SAAB and ISRAEL
RWR+MAWS also from Sweden ,
New Fuselage design with airframe shapings to give minimum IR emissions and descent LO.
Just to give advantage from SAM's and hand fired Stinger missile.
And it can also fill role of CAS,COIN operation which you are doubting

Also Chetak is a utility helicoptor required for evacuation from high altitude bcoz Troops have to be rotated every 4 weeks since they have danger of devloping Lung edema and failure. Its not armed if you think so.
HAL is also designing LUH for that utility only and replace Chetak.
I say this bcoz i am in Indian Army - look my profile and i have experience of Chetak and Mi17

Still you havent replied - In which part you think Chinese Z10 is superior , plz read this link and specify where
http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/52331-lch-makes-first-flight-6.html#post766226

And look Buddy - when you answer a post , self-assuming and calling something crap and DODO ,you invite others to get on you. As other members are replying to you
Read my all posts not a single place , i called your Helos crap .
If you want a good discussion keep it Technical . This is how mature forum discussion work
compare on -systems ,weapons and specs rather than self assuming things

 

[Pralay_Nath_ForYou]

For people who are incapable and rely on others for survival- Grapes are always sour!!

 

[Indian-Devil]

CAN ANY ONE TELL HOW MANY COMPONENTS IN LCH ARE INDIAN OR IF ITS JUST SAME OLD STORY LIKE ALH DHRUV (OLD WINE IN NEW BOTTLE) .
I CAN BET THE WEAPON PLATFORM(ROCKET PODS TO BE INTEGRATED) IS IMPORTED JUST LIKE THEY DID WITH ALH.NOW OUR RESPECTED INDIAN MEMBERS WILL ARGUE "WE DEVELOPED HELENA(NAAG)" THEN QUESTION ARISE IS IT PROVEN. OF JUST IN TESTING PHASE JUST LIKE OLD DODO STORY(BARKING DOGS NEVER BYTES) .

If LCH is able to take down our enemies tanks with Helina or any imported anti tank missiles and able to provide air support to ground forces we are happy with it.

You cant ask the copy rights at the time when its firing its armaments on the enemies troops or Tank regiments.

And lets not compare our machines with others and stick to the topic.

 

[PLAextream]

Can u tell me how many aircrafts China has Designed on its own.Every chinese euipment is copied.
Components are not the issue here.Boeing is an american company ,but hardly any of the components for the 787 are manufactured in USA.F-18 is an american plane but India manufactures its belly doors.Airbus is a european company but India manufactures doors for the A-320.

oh! india manufacture doors for air bus, but china manufactures its own airbus.
had copieng would have bin so easy ,india would have at least copied a decent assult rifile other than INSAS let alone bigger hardware.

 

[PLAextream]

http://business-standard.com/india/news/.../389650

what a bull **** are they testing this tank,by credible source i ment official words of IA not any cheep crap buddy.
better try next time

 

[PLAextream]

Nope you are wrong - Tank buster is MIl-35 and next will be AH64 longbow.
Secondly Mi-17 is not attack chopper its A Medium Lift Chopper , it does not have any EW suite , no countermeasures , no RWR , no MAWS , so it got shot down
LCH is created to work in dense EW environment, with extreme Manuverability
With latest EW suite from SAAB and ISRAEL
RWR+MAWS also from Sweden ,
New Fuselage design with airframe shapings to give minimum IR emissions and descent LO.
Just to give advantage from SAM's and hand fired Stinger missile.
And it can also fill role of CAS,COIN operation which you are doubting

Also Chetak is a utility helicoptor required for evacuation from high altitude bcoz Troops have to be rotated every 4 weeks since they have danger of devloping Lung edema and failure. Its not armed if you think so.
HAL is also designing LUH for that utility only and replace Chetak.
I say this bcoz i am in Indian Army - look my profile and i have experience of Chetak and Mi17

Still you havent replied - In which part you think Chinese Z10 is superior , plz read this link and specify where
http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/52331-lch-makes-first-flight-6.html#post766226

And look Buddy - when you answer a post , self-assuming and calling something crap and DODO ,you invite others to get on you. As other members are replying to you
Read my all posts not a single place , i called your Helos crap .
If you want a good discussion keep it Technical . This is how mature forum discussion work
compare on -systems ,weapons and specs rather than self assuming things

i keep a high respect for any defence personnel be it from our advisories . & you are my fav1.
as far as using mi17 in kargil is concerned it is a documented fact as other copters of india wher incapable to operate there..
as far as DRDO is concerned i feel its only a cost/time over run organisation,i heard it was manufacturing mosquito replient cream,berry juice, growing patato in ladakh other than doing its actual task.
sir i hold no grudges agst any 1, be it india or else.
this may be my last post as my university exams are near.
what ever i posted ,just to test your responce nothing else.
HAL doing nice job & may be LCH would see some exports when its parameters are met.

 

[lhuang]

Let's just hope it doesn't turn out to be an LCA and not be inducted 10 years after first flight

 

[letsbefriends]

any news abt the engine selection for MK 2??i thought the decision had to be finalised in march..jst cant wait for mk 2 with decent engine with enough thrust and hopefully TVC, AESA radar, superior avionics n everything a quality aircraft should have to fly in indian colors

 

[Pralay_Nath_ForYou]

Let's just hope it doesn't turn out to be an LCA and not be inducted 10 years after first flight

10 yrs? Do u even know how much time it takes to design and develop and a/c , Rafale took more than 26-30 years of R&D, with Dassault/France having years of Aviation experience (same goes for other projects), and is still getting further developed. Indian HAL, on the other hand with its shoe-lace budget has met all its parameters for TEJAS and in process of induction by this year. Give HAL a break, from 2nd Generation Marut to 4.5 Generation is a BIG leap (not reverse engineering or modifying Russian tech.). Hope you are able to understand what I have said.

 

[lhuang]

10 yrs? Do u even know how much time it takes to design and develop and a/c , Rafale took more than 26-30 years of R&D, with Dassault/France having years of Aviation experience (same goes for other projects), and is still getting further developed. Indian HAL, on the other hand with its shoe-lace budget has met all its parameters for TEJAS and in process of induction by this year. Give HAL a break, from 2nd Generation Marut to 4.5 Generation is a BIG leap (not reverse engineering or modifying Russian tech.). Hope you are able to understand what I have said.

What HAL has done is commendable I suppose, I'm talking about induction time from date of first flight.

 

[DMLA]

wonderful news indeed. I just hope that they are able to get these birds inducted in numbers post 2015.

At the same time, I believe Ka-52 is a good option for IAF (more than the RFP of 22 being talked about). The twin seat monster already has many IAI inputs (thanks to the turkish competition). It can carry 16 anti tank missiles AND 2 rocket pods at the same time (it has 6 hardpoints). It also has 2 radars (one for air targets and one for ground targets), optro electronic pod and 30mm 2A42 cannon. I hope we get these birds asap. I also hope IAF increases the number from 22 to 60+ and LCH is inducted in numbers by the IA alone (more than 150) relegating specific roles to each branch!

anyhow, this thread is for LCH... all the very best to DRDO for future work on this bird!