HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[raazh]

out of 1400 parameters to be checked and tested in MK2, more than 1200 have been concluded in MK1 prototypes itself..that is why it is taking much time..
One more reason for delay is also due to the IAF not yet finalising the final set of equipments and electronics on board MK1

200 parameters and set of equipments and electronics on board still not finalized. Are you serious ?? What have they been doing if all of this is still to be done .. dont think forecasts of MK2 after 2022 is a wrong call at all ..

 

[Harisudan]

200 parameters and set of equipments and electronics on board still not finalized. Are you serious ?? What have they been doing if all of this is still to be done .. dont think forecasts of MK2 after 2022 is a wrong call at all ..

Dude, just read the full post man..Out of 1400 atleast 1200 have been already tested on LSPs..The remaining 200 is what is the difference between the Naval version, MK2 and Mk1..
In the Naval version connecting to Under carriage strengthening and arrestor hook, some 50 to 60 parameters are left, likewise u can imagine, how much work is left..
regarding the MK2, the air to air refuelling probe, and Fuselage changes for fitting in GE414 will almost comes to 150 parameters..
Now you guys tell how much work is left??
HAL, ADA accepted the bitter truth that, LCA MK1 is way beyond schedule, but in the process, they are also catching up time for MK2 version which will be the final one..MK1 as of now will be a training platform and a platform which will be helped to formulate strategies, train ground crews in maintaining, do all sorts of trail and error stuffs before they pitch it against any known 4+ generation fighter ..
Hence the 40+ number is for placing it in two bases and formulate the strategies and train the engineers and make it familiarise with the aircraft and fly recon missions and analyse the ability and Pros & Cons..Remember the testing pilots are experts and the strategies cannot be formed based on their inputs. they only provide inputs on functioning of equipments, such as compressors stalls under various altitude, flaps, afterburner effectiveness, when pulling up etc.
The real fighting strategies and maneouvours will be finalised by the line pilots only and it take many months if not years..
By the time they do that, MK2 will be rolling out of HALs..
Trust me the PAKIS are also doing the same thing with their JF17 now..They are just showing the weapons integrations and all other fancy videos to satisfy two things..
1. To show their own people that they are ready for any Indian adventurism and hence making the people and politicians satisfied..
2. Asusual to satisfy their EGO that they are always in toe to toe with any Indian Advancement if not ahead of us..
These are hard facts that no Indian, or Pakistani flier can refuse and also known to both of our planners..

By the way what the Pakis doing currently is a very good decision for their airforce considering the current economic and geo political scenarios to Induct JF17 first and do whatever trials or testing is required later on..
which will put them in a very good platform considering their arch rivals India..
Because they have inducted it first and then formulating the strategies and simultaneous inductions are also happening and hence they could provide real time corrections and changes required to the designers and engineers wherever they are(Be it in China or Pakistan) to improve the aircraft according to their needs..
That way, they will be ahead of us in terms of numbers when we finally start rolling out our aircraft..
Hence it is a good decision..

Where did you get the above data from? Do you work at HAL?

No, I don't work for HAL..
We just share these things when we sit for few drinks with my Ex colleagues who are currently working at HALs various sectors..
we were all the part of same organisation until few years back..

 

[Harisudan]

The whole LCA project was made a mess by our fighting forces..Not only LCA, but flagship Arjun MBT as well..
They never cared to explain the need for a Rafale to raplace Mig 21 when Tejas was coming in well..
They also never cared to explain, why they could not Induct Arjun when the T90s where not even having night vision,
That too when Arjun was beating T90 in almost all areas hands down..
With the Advent of Modi's new government, strict messages where passed on to the commanders via defence ministry that self reliance is the only way forward and to forget all the foreign acquisitions they were eyeing on..
So, one thing is for sure, as we speak, some serious discussions are happening regarding very crucial acquisitions and some of them are about to be milked by us if they do want to sell their products here, considering the way they milked us when we needed them the most..Yes I mean it, some projects are even ready to be scrapped, because, we simply don't need them anymore, and all they want is just to milk us and pass no crucial tech..
We can expect the decision in few months..

 

[halupridol]

Dude, just read the full post man..Out of 1400 atleast 1200 have been already tested on LSPs..The remaining 200 is what is the difference between the Naval version, MK2 and Mk1..
In the Naval version connecting to Under carriage strengthening and arrestor hook, some 50 to 60 parameters are left, likewise u can imagine, how much work is left..
regarding the MK2, the air to air refuelling probe, and Fuselage changes for fitting in GE414 will almost comes to 150 parameters..
Now you guys tell how much work is left??
HAL, ADA accepted the bitter truth that, LCA MK1 is way beyond schedule, but in the process, they are also catching up time for MK2 version which will be the final one..MK1 as of now will be a training platform and a platform which will be helped to formulate strategies, train ground crews in maintaining, do all sorts of trail and error stuffs before they pitch it against any known 4+ generation fighter ..
Hence the 40+ number is for placing it in two bases and formulate the strategies and train the engineers and make it familiarise with the aircraft and fly recon missions and analyse the ability and Pros & Cons..Remember the testing pilots are experts and the strategies cannot be formed based on their inputs. they only provide inputs on functioning of equipments, such as compressors stalls under various altitude, flaps, afterburner effectiveness, when pulling up etc.
The real fighting strategies and maneouvours will be finalised by the line pilots only and it take many months if not years..
By the time they do that, MK2 will be rolling out of HALs..
Trust me the PAKIS are also doing the same thing with their JF17 now..They are just showing the weapons integrations and all other fancy videos to satisfy two things..
1. To show their own people that they are ready for any Indian adventurism and hence making the people and politicians satisfied..
2. Asusual to satisfy their EGO that they are always in toe to toe with any Indian Advancement if not ahead of us..
These are hard facts that no Indian, or Pakistani flier can refuse and also known to both of our planners..

By the way what the Pakis doing currently is a very good decision for their airforce considering the current economic and geo political scenarios to Induct JF17 first and do whatever trials or testing is required later on..
which will put them in a very good platform considering their arch rivals India..
Because they have inducted it first and then formulating the strategies and simultaneous inductions are also happening and hence they could provide real time corrections and changes required to the designers and engineers wherever they are(Be it in China or Pakistan) to improve the aircraft according to their needs..
That way, they will be ahead of us in terms of numbers when we finally start rolling out our aircraft..
Hence it is a good decision..


No, I don't work for HAL..
We just share these things when we sit for few drinks with my Ex colleagues who are currently working at HALs various sectors..
we were all the part of same organisation until few years back..

bhaiya,aur kab tak khayali pulao pakaoge,,,2014 khatam hone ko hai,,,mk1 hi ab tak induct nai hua,,,aur log mk2 ko mig29,grippen ke sath compare kar rahe hai

 

[sudhir007]

2706th flight on 14 Sep

TD1 : 233 PV1: 242 PV3: 387 LSP1: 74 LSP3: 226 LSP5: 278 TD2 : 305 PV2: 222 PV5: 61 LSP2: 294 LSP4: 129 LSP7: 120 NP1: 25 LSP8 : 110


2695th flight on 28 Aug

TD1 : 233 PV1: 242 PV3: 387 LSP1: 74 LSP3: 224 LSP5: 278 TD2 : 305 PV2: 222 PV5: 59 LSP2: 294 LSP4: 128 LSP7: 118 NP1: 25 LSP8 : 106


2660th flight on 30 July

TD1 : 233 PV1: 242 PV3: 384 LSP1: 74 LSP3: 215 LSP5: 277 TD2 : 305 PV2: 222 PV5: 51 LSP2: 294 LSP4: 128 LSP7: 115 NP1: 25 LSP8 : 95

 

[Harisudan]

bhaiya,aur kab tak khayali pulao pakaoge,,,2014 khatam hone ko hai,,,mk1 hi ab tak induct nai hua,,,aur log mk2 ko mig29,grippen ke sath compare kar rahe hai

What is wrong in comparing it?
For your information once IOC is issued, IAF started to take it in their hands and things are moving up very fast..
IAF ordered initial 40 aircrafts after the IOC only.DO u know that as we speak the airframes are being fabricated in HAL facilities for atleast four of the new aircrafts for line production..
FOC can also be achieved while inducting them..
It is not mandatory that, FOC is mandatory to IAF to touch Tejas..
Full and final Operational clearance simply means, we can do everything stated in the aircraft rule book but if FOC is not yet declared doesn't mean that the aircraft should not be flown at all..
They can still be flown for testing and familiarisation purposes..
Now that is what is exactly happening..
MK1 is ready and IAF got their hands already on this plane.
FOC is just a word..
And regarding the comparing part,
Yes why not compare it with Mig 29, since it can perform all the OPs the Mig29 can do..??
Stop whining and start looking at our progress in a constructive way..

 

[rockstarIN]

What is wrong in comparing it?
For your information once IOC is issued, IAF started to take it in their hands and things are moving up very fast..
IAF ordered initial 40 aircrafts after the IOC only.DO u know that as we speak the airframes are being fabricated in HAL facilities for atleast four of the new aircrafts for line production..
FOC can also be achieved while inducting them..
It is not mandatory that, FOC is mandatory to IAF to touch Tejas..
Full and final Operational clearance simply means, we can do everything stated in the aircraft rule book but if FOC is not yet declared doesn't mean that the aircraft should not be flown at all..
They can still be flown for testing and familiarisation purposes..
Now that is what is exactly happening..
MK1 is ready and IAF got their hands already on this plane.
FOC is just a word..
And regarding the comparing part,
Yes why not compare it with Mig 29, since it can perform all the OPs the Mig29 can do..??
Stop whining and start looking at our progress in a constructive way..

Initial target was to give SP-1 & SP-2 to IAF by March 2014. And even today both SP-1 & 2 still not airborne. why delay?

 

[sancho]

"IAF has to explain why Mig21s etc needed to be replaced with 30 Bil $ 126 Rafales, AC against ****'s and from where it expects the nation to fund all its "requirements".

Not really, because it wasn't IAFs decision to go for M-MRCA, but GoI's / MoD's (which obviously knew about the higher costs of that decision and had a plan how to pay for it) and the M-MRCAs are also not meant for Pakistan, but primarily against China. In fact, we might see more LCA MK2 squads alongside Indo-Pak borders than on Indo-Chinese borders.

Initial target was to give SP-1 & SP-2 to IAF by March 2014. And even today both SP-1 & 2 still not airborne. why delay?

He said the Indian Air Force version of Tejas was expected to get final operational clearance by March 2015.

Source: Second Tejas naval prototype to undergo flight test this month

Doesn't sound that optimistic anymore.

 

[Anony]

Initial target was to give SP-1 & SP-2 to IAF by March 2014. And even today both SP-1 & 2 still not airborne. why delay?

FYI, it was IAF who rejected the two aircraft which HAL were assembling before IOC-2 saying since the metal is cut before IOC-2, they will not be inducting those two aircraft. Now tell me how can someone expect an aircraft to be produced in just 3 months(Please don't compare HAL with US and China). It takes between 9-12 months for the first aircraft to come out of assembly line.

 

[halupridol]

What is wrong in comparing it?
For your information once IOC is issued, IAF started to take it in their hands and things are moving up very fast..
IAF ordered initial 40 aircrafts after the IOC only.DO u know that as we speak the airframes are being fabricated in HAL facilities for atleast four of the new aircrafts for line production..
FOC can also be achieved while inducting them..
It is not mandatory that, FOC is mandatory to IAF to touch Tejas..
Full and final Operational clearance simply means, we can do everything stated in the aircraft rule book but if FOC is not yet declared doesn't mean that the aircraft should not be flown at all..
They can still be flown for testing and familiarisation purposes..
Now that is what is exactly happening..
MK1 is ready and IAF got their hands already on this plane.
FOC is just a word..
And regarding the comparing part,
Yes why not compare it with Mig 29, since it can perform all the OPs the Mig29 can do..??
Stop whining and start looking at our progress in a constructive way..

oh,if u think I am whining then what do u call all that talk by ex air chiefs in stratpost videos,kya wo constructive criticism laga,,,,
dil ko khush rakhne ko Ghalib,,,,,,,
n about comparison(always found it funny),,,,
its like a pregnant woman saying 'mera baccha pados ke chintu se jyada hoshiyar hai,,,ab bas 2 mahine hai meri delivry mein,,bas ho hi gaya samjho'--mk1
'my 2nd child will be even more hoshiyar like stephen hawkins,newton,einstein,megatron,blah blah'-mk2
---------------
ps-nothing against u,,,,u r positive n optimistic,,,,but i dont have much faith in our psu's.,,,naam bade aur darshan chote

 

[Harisudan]

oh,if u think I am whining then what do u call all that talk by ex air chiefs in stratpost videos,kya wo constructive criticism laga,,,,
dil ko khush rakhne ko Ghalib,,,,,,,
n about comparison(always found it funny),,,,
its like a pregnant woman saying 'mera baccha pados ke chintu se jyada hoshiyar hai,,,ab bas 2 mahine hai meri delivry mein,,bas ho hi gaya samjho'--mk1
'my 2nd child will be even more hoshiyar like stephen hawkins,newton,einstein,megatron,blah blah'-mk2
---------------
ps-nothing against u,,,,u r positive n optimistic,,,,but i dont have much faith in our psu's.,,,naam bade aur darshan chote

I can clearly understand you agony..Things were not so encouraging in the past, but today it is not the case, and that is why I'm really optimistic dear..Even I was like you when I was directly related to some of these bureaucratic crap, but today's case is totally different with the new government and new policy makers..

 

[halupridol]

I can clearly understand you agony..Things were not so encouraging in the past, but today it is not the case, and that is why I'm really optimistic dear..Even I was like you when I was directly related to some of these bureaucratic crap, but today's case is totally different with the new government and new policy makers..

bro,as they say,,,,,hope dies last.

 

[sancho]

bro,as they say,,,,,hope dies last.

True, but hope alone doesn't make us better in developing or producing LCA. For that we actually have to work on solutions and not simply take on the next project like it's DRDO's normal behaviour. As long as somebody kick their asses to do their work propperly, hope is all we have + a high possibility to be disappointed from them again.

 

[halupridol]

True, but hope alone doesn't make us better in developing or producing LCA. For that we actually have to work on solutions and not simply take on the next project like it's DRDO's normal behaviour. As long as somebody kick their asses to do their work propperly, hope is all we have + a high possibility to be disappointed from them again.

n most probably we will be yet again,,,isnt the stratpost videos evidence enuf that iaf aint too impressed with lca,,,,how much more clear can they be,
though everyone agreed that a low cost local solution for depleting numbers is a must,but that doesnt mean iaf wud wait forever for our abysmal psu's to deliver.
,,I know its almost done.
mk1-no foc yet(pata nai kab milega),n in all probabilty wont see any battle.
mk2-"developing"
naval lca-???
ppl like to speculate,compare,boast about lca.
,,,seriously,it amazes me.

 

[sancho]

n most probably we will be yet again,,,isnt the stratpost videos evidence enuf that iaf aint too impressed with lca,,,,how much more clear can they be,
though everyone agreed that a low cost local solution for depleting numbers is a must,but that doesnt mean iaf wud wait forever for our abysmal psu's to deliver.

I think that is not what they are disappointed about, not even about the operational problems, because LCA as a "fighter" never played an important role in the plans of IAF for the defence of the country. For them it was important to get an indigenous low end fighter, that gives them the capability to be independent from foreign suppliers, that they can modify according to their needs and that can be build in numbers if required, without approval or lenghty negotiations with foreign governments or vendors. The "project" LCA, to build an independent industry that is able to develop fighters indigenously in the long run, had higher importance than the "fighter" LCA itself.
So IAF imo is not disappointed by the fighter right now, even if it doesn't meet the operational requirements they gave as the base, but they are dissappointed by the PSUs, their managers and scientists, because they managed the „project“ so badly, because the PSU's can't deliver most of their promises, because after all these years the „project“ is on, India still has not the industrial and scientific base, they hoped for. That's the real disappointment that makes India still the biggest importer of arms in the world!