HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[vsdave2302]

What is STR Criterion Bro??

I will pay my entire salary to these Pigs, They must buy Indian products only (in rarest of rare case where Indian can't produce something, these ppl can buy foreign products)...

@By the way Manindra has a point..


OffTopic: Joke: Once Planning commission gave 1 Cr each to Modi and Rahul Young Gandhi. The target was to illuminate one city. Modi worked on a minihydro plan, generated electricity and illuminated the city.

Rahul Gandhi spent just 1 Lakh Rupees and bought Candle, He illuminated the city...

Kejriwal Shouted: Abe 99 Lakh ka Ghotala kar diya?? (99 Lakh went to Scam)..

STR is sustained turn Rate. This is one of the very Important parameter of FOC or IOC 2. I think it is time for plane to complete a horizontal circle. 360 degree/time taken in seconds to complete the circle is STR per second. 20 degree may be good.

 

[Black Widow]

thats really better way

- who handle "LCA" project ??? Its not IAF or MOD.
- LCA isn't a dire operational need. IAF can manage with existing fleet till 2018. With Rafael coming LCA requirement is going to go down
- LCA is dire requirement for our local industry and NOT for IAF.
- Yes every country in the world accept what its local industry produce. But no other local industry in the world promise you diamonds and give the glass.
- You are totally ignoring the bad management and over confidence of our industry.

Though IAF and MoD doesn't manage LCA, they cannot run away from taking blame. It was IAF dream to have 42 Squadrons. They should learn from IN. Remember how IN chief blasted HAL/ADA for delay in N-LCA. As a customer its your duty to push your vendor.

Rafale is not replacement for LCA. Indian MiG27/23 are also on verge of retirement. EFT was replacement for LCA Rafale is replacement for Ground attack fighter.

if IAF and IA cancel the order there is nobody in the world who could afford the price of Dhruv. And that will also include you if you cant pay the development cost.
I hope you know how dhruv evolve. Thats kind of project management would have made LCA inducted.

You are living in la-la land. ALH has many buyer, just use google. If IAF/IA stop procurement HAL will look for foreign buyer. Lanka, Nepal, Africa, Latin America, East Asia, Corporates, State Govt etc are the potential buyer.

No one give f$$$$$$$ing sh&t to IAF and IA when ALH come into market..

Your concept of better future is problematic. If one of the forces drop order then per unit cost goes up. And trust me if we screwed up LCH project we just gona see more Apaches.

offcourse because Apache comes with more dalali... and moreover both are different class fighters... LCH is light while Apache is Heavy class. I will be furious if IAF/IA will buy Cobra ignoring LCH.

Anyways we will see nearly 300 MK-2 and all existing MK-1 will be converted to MK-2 standards. Currently there is no order cause MK-2 is just completing tests. Wait for it and see the order yourself.

Why to upgrade MK-I?? Let army get trained in MK-I and IA start ordering 500+ Arjuna MK-II...


hahahaah how what reliability you will have if you promise me BMW and delivered ford

All due to changing requirement. Plan is simple, First ask Maruti when we made Maruti, They change the order to ford.. Message was clear if you can't give us ford we will cancel order and buy Maruti from foreign (with massive bribe). We Agreed and made ford, Then they asked for BMW. Message again was clear, if you can't deliver BMW we will cancel order and buy Maruti from foreign (with Massive bribe)....


And blame will go to HAL/DRDO...

One fun fact for you : Show me any reference were DRDO/ADA/HAL said anything about induction of MK-1 as is. If you remember it was saint Antony who stood on their heads to fast track the process. Otherwise those idiots were still look for next time line.

And even today DRDO isn't backing out form its mouth steam. I hope you don't want me to give links for that

 

[Sergi]

Though IAF and MoD doesn't manage LCA, they cannot run away from taking blame. It was IAF dream to have 42 Squadrons. They should learn from IN. Remember how IN chief blasted HAL/ADA for delay in N-LCA. As a customer its your duty to push your vendor.

What balme ??? IAF isnt dreaming about 42 Sqds. They need it for operational doctorine. They need LCA to fill up low end.
Now tell me when and why saint antony stood on DRDO's head ???
Didnt you recall the IAF chief publicly telling DRDO to hurry up on LCA ???
Did you know in 2002 DRDO themself realise 404 isnt sufficient for for power and they need more powerful engine like 414. Google it and you will find "the hindu" articles about it. I have posted them in some thread here in PDF but couldnt remember which thread. And see when they actaully palce the order .
The JV to improve Kaveri us being talked from2007. When did RFP send out for that ???
And on contrary to what you are saying DRDO always find an excuse to extend the time line. They never look eager to finsih in time what they promise.
Even when few months ago saint himself tell them dont extend the line any more , 15 days later DRDO chief said its impossible to do it this year and just after that Mr. Chandar took the job he is saying it would be done well within time. So what that tell you ???
The PSU is always saying they need more time then which force in the world will induct it ???
Lets not get started with radar claims or other operational claims like AOA.

Rafale is not replacement for LCA. Indian MiG27/23 are also on verge of retirement. EFT was replacement for LCA Rafale is replacement for Ground attack fighter.

Mig-27 are grounded for 2 years now and are used as only active standby. They are going to retire them in 2015. Mig-23 will follow Mig-27

EFT isnt something that coming to IAF so lets not go there.
If you dont know current Mig-21 sqds are replaced by MKIs.
IAF form last decade decided not to have dedicated role fighter but to go for swing role platforms. Thats why costly upgrade of Miraj and Jags.

You yourself saying LCA is supposed to be intercepter , yes you are right but what our PSUs choose to do ??? They add ground attack capabilities first and now working on A2A
And you want IAF to induct LCA for intercepter role. Now tell me am i missing something here ???

You are living in la-la land. ALH has many buyer, just use google. If IAF/IA stop procurement HAL will look for foreign buyer. Lanka, Nepal, Africa, Latin America, East Asia, Corporates, State Govt etc are the potential buyer.

No one give f$$$$$$$ing sh&t to IAF and IA when ALH come into market..

hahahaha what you called a la la land is pure economics and you are constantly failing to understand it.
First thing ALH is already in market. And MHA is already pissed at them for not returning ALH for more than year which were send to servicing they are looking to buy form other venders.

Cost per unit of anything that you produce includes ( R&D costs + material costs + resource cost + + depreciation costs + labour costs + other IP costs like consultancy + marketing costs )

And use google more to dig data and tell me the total order of all of your so called customers in 1/10 th of IA/IAF order ???
And please get yourself informed on how these birds are sold to existing forgine customers. Its not hard cash.
And Fact remains -Even though the bird is good it doesn't simply get itself sold if your own force is not using it.

offcourse because Apache comes with more dalali... and moreover both are different class fighters... LCH is light while Apache is Heavy class. I will be furious if IAF/IA will buy Cobra ignoring LCH.

AFAIK there is no such thing as light and heavy attack chopper. They are just attack choppers. If I am not wrong @sancho explained it in some thread.
I dont see Cobras coming either.

Why to upgrade MK-I?? Let army get trained in MK-I and IA start ordering 500+ Arjuna MK-II...

Why did you think IA is not training with MK-1 ??? I myself saw MK-1 in MIRC , A.Nagar.
We have simulator to train too.
Arjuna is usable on only western front. We currently have enough force projection there. So we are not in hurry.
Then why do you want to use MK-1 when MK-2 has 50+ improvements ??? And MK-2 is near complition.
Everything is good. Why waist resources ???
IA & MOD decided to scrap FMBT project for Arjuna MK-3.
About buying russian tanks ,
We had T-90 we bough T-90S and upgrade to existing T-90s. Now russians are pushing T-90MS but we are not buying system as a whole, only upgrades for Ms standards; We will need tanks in NE and Arjuna isn't going to work there so we have to buy. So you logic behind Arjuna sabotage and T-90 order is not correct. Even if that sabotage wouldn't have happened we would have gone for T-90 order as we need them in NE.

All due to changing requirement. Plan is simple, First ask Maruti when we made Maruti, They change the order to ford.. Message was clear if you can't give us ford we will cancel order and buy Maruti from foreign (with massive bribe). We Agreed and made ford, Then they asked for BMW. Message again was clear, if you can't deliver BMW we will cancel order and buy Maruti from foreign (with Massive bribe)....
And blame will go to HAL/DRDO... [/QUOTE]

Hahhaa yes you understand the concept. Good
Now tell me what did IAF asked for ???
And also dont forget to tell me what DRDO promised for ???

What I will say IAF want simple intercepter to replace Mig-21. Simple as that. Techno growth cause the requirement drastically in 2002 but still that was only intercepter. DRDO decided to go for swing role and IAF changing its course to have multirole plane like that Why would they ask for intercepter if DRDO is claiming we can make a good low cost multirole plane ???
And this s@it continue till saraswat himself made LO stealth LCA MK-3
Please show me where in world IAF or MOD want sarawat to make stealth out of LCA ??? He just said it.

Few years ago when MK-1 was maturing, same guy - Saraswat - came in media with more powerful and agile MK-2 , why IAF will order MK-1 then ???

You are blaming IAF for wanting the best which seller is claiming to have.

+ IAF requirements didnt change over night. 10 years is very big period and warfare methods and tech change fast.
Correct me if I am wrong.

+ plus I would like more data to support your claims. That will be good for argument


If you dont mind will you tell me which toothpaste and cellphone do you use ???
I use Dabur Red not because its indian just because its best out there
Similarly I use Apple iPhone and not maxx

 

[Manindra]

@Black Widow @Sergi Kindly don't post in colour fonts because its dificult to read.

Mig-27 are grounded for 2 years now and are used as only active standby. They are going to retire them in 2015. Mig-23 will follow Mig-27

MIG-23 retired long ago.

 

[Sergi]

@Black Widow @Sergi Kindly don't post in colour fonts because its dificult to read.



MIG-23 retired long ago.

I am pretty sure 23s are still in active reserve. If you have more info please share.
I am not posting in colour, I am just quoting him and he might have added colour

 

[SRP]

I am pretty sure 23s are still in active reserve. If you have more info please share.
I am not posting in colour, I am just quoting him and he might have added colour

Mig23s retired now. Mig 27 still in active service.

India decommissions last MiG-23 ground support aircraft | World | RIA Novosti

 

[Sergi]

Mig23s retired now. Mig 27 still in active service.

India decommissions last MiG-23 ground support aircraft | World | RIA Novosti

I will check my source for 23 and will get back to you. And i do hope you didnt confuse "active reservers" with "active service"
For Mig-27 - their engine - R-29 developed some defects which were not possible to rectify. So court of enquiry instituted for one crash advised to retire them by 2017. But due to another cash IAF grounded the entire fleet and now they are kept as active reserves and most of them will be retired in 2015. Only one or two will be kept till 2017.

Thats from IAF.

 

[Manindra]

I am pretty sure 23s are still in active reserve. If you have more info please share.
I am not posting in colour, I am just quoting him and he might have added colour

Its not a good idea to put a ground attack aircraft in reserve when you have plenty of far more capable ground attack aircrafts like Jaguar & MIG-27 in your inventory. Mig-27 would be called reserved because currently it is in active standby mode. Currently we have 269 MIG-21 in which 105 upgraded to Bison variant and in active service & rest 164 are put in reserve.

 

[Sergi]

Its not a good idea to put a ground attack aircraft in reserve when you have plenty of far more capable ground attack aircrafts like Jaguar & MIG-27 in your inventory. Mig-27 would be called reserved because currently it is in active standby mode. Currently we have 269 MIG-21 in which 105 upgraded to Bison variant and in active service & rest 164 are put in reserve.

"Active reserve" is for the time of crisis. Those planes are airworthy but you dont use them unless and until necessary. and it doesnt have to do anything with which planes are in service and which not.

 

[Manindra]

"Active reserve" is for the time of crisis. Those planes are airworthy but you dont use them unless and until necessary. and it doesnt have to do anything with which planes are in service and which not.

In active reserves you have to maintain fleets without using it which IAF done in MIG-21 case because its IAF only intercepter but for ground attack we have in service 108 Jaguar & plenty of MIG-27 (to be called active reserve because IAF grounded it now)
Maintaining active reserve is costly & it is stupid to IAF to maintain active reserve fleet of a outdated fighter when more capable fighter with more number is already in reserve.

 

[Sergi]

In active reserves you have to maintain fleets without using it which IAF done in MIG-21 case because its IAF only intercepter but for ground attack we have in service 108 Jaguar & plenty of MIG-27 (to be called active reserve because IAF grounded it now)
Maintaining active reserve is costly & it is stupid to IAF to maintain active reserve fleet of a outdated fighter when more capable fighter with more number is already in reserve.

Only dedicated intercepter.... NOT only intercepter. Mig-29s and MKIs are more than qualified to do the job.
And like I said in earlier post and repeating again "it has nothing to do with what you have and what you dont" it depend on the policy of AF.

Active reserves are not costly to maintain as they don't fly.
Yu live in Nagpur. There is IAF service command. If you find a retired service guy he can tell you more.

 

[Manindra]

Only dedicated intercepter.... NOT only intercepter. Mig-29s and MKIs are more than qualified to do the job.
And like I said in earlier post and repeating again "it has nothing to do with what you have and what you dont" it depend on the policy of AF.

Active reserves are not costly to maintain as they don't fly.
Yu live in Nagpur. There is IAF service command. If you find a retired service guy he can tell you more.

This is not wise idea to use air superiority double engine fighter in interceptor role. Its like use of truck in place of pickup.
As I am saying its a very outdated ground attack aircraft which easy prey even for MANPAD forget SAM with minimal payload & hefty fuel consumption thats why we replace it but we use MIG-21 till now.
If its air superiority or interceptor aircraft instead of ground attack then IAF definitely use it in service forget put it in reserve.

In current scenario IAF would not spend a single penny to maintain it for active reserve. IAF self admitted that they put 164 MIG-21 & MIG-27 in reserve but never mention MIG-23

Air Force Central command HQ is in Nagpur & classmate's uncle is an IAF retired wing commander & he explain me when I ask why IAF retired MIG-23 but use MIG-21 which is more old compare to MIG-23

 

[Sergi]

This is not wise idea to use air superiority double engine fighter in interceptor role. Its like use of truck in place of pickup.
As I am saying its a very outdated ground attack aircraft which easy prey even for MANPAD forget SAM with minimal payload & hefty fuel consumption thats why we replace it but we use MIG-21 till now.
If its air superiority or interceptor aircraft instead of ground attack then IAF definitely use it in service forget put it in reserve.

In current scenario IAF would not spend a single penny to maintain it for active reserve. IAF self admitted that they put 164 MIG-21 & MIG-27 in reserve but never mention MIG-23

Air Force Central command HQ is in Nagpur & classmate's uncle is an IAF retired wing commander & he explain me when I ask why IAF retired MIG-23 but use MIG-21 which is more old compare to MIG-23

Your problem is you assume too much.
You are I live in free country and you can believe what you want .

Again "Active reserve" is a concept for crisis. And it doesnt have to do with what you have and what you don't. And even what I am writing is from a retired high ranker IAF officer
नागपुरकर तुम्हाला/मला वाटत म्हणुन नाही काही होत. इथ मी जास्त नाही लिहू शकत.

 

[Manindra]

Your problem is you assume too much.
You are I live in free country and you can believe what you want .

Again "Active reserve" is a concept for crisis. And it doesnt have to do with what you have and what you don't. And even what I am writing is from a retired high ranker IAF officer
नागपुरकर तुम्हाला/मला वाटत म्हणुन नाही काही होत. इथ मी जास्त नाही लिहू शकत.

IAF doctrine not suited for kamikaze missions & 70s era MIG-21 is more effective than MIG-23 in current scenario. If you would put it in reserve then you have to spend money on its maintainence which IAF is not hesitate because its more economical to use MIG-21 as reserve which IAF currently do.

PS : I am not assuming that but it is real. Technically MIG-23 is in reserve but not in Active Reserve

 

[Sergi]

IAF doctrine not suited for kamikaze missions & 70s era MIG-21 is more effective than MIG-23 in current scenario. If you would put it in reserve then you have to spend money on its maintainence which IAF is not hesitate because its more economical to use MIG-21 as reserve which IAF currently do.

PS : I am not assuming that but it is real. Technically MIG-23 is in reserve but not in Active Reserve

There is no technical/operational term as "reserves" - "stand by reservers"
One and only "Active reserves"
And other term being "Operational fighters"

For you satisfaction consider a scenario MKI full loaded for A2A mission escorting Mig-23s for ground run. You dont need to be a Kamikaze to use 23. Thats what I told you you assume too much.
And above said scenario is true to our existing Jags and Mirajs too. So your point is null.