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There is no technical/operational term as "reserves" - "stand by reservers"
One and only "Active reserves"
And other term being "Operational fighters"

For you satisfaction consider a scenario MKI full loaded for A2A mission escorting Mig-23s for ground run. You dont need to be a Kamikaze to use 23. Thats what I told you you assume too much.
And above said scenario is true to our existing Jags and Mirajs too. So your point is null.

Active Reserve : You maintain aircraft but didn't fly.
Reserve : You put aircraft but didn't maintain & open option to fly until the aircraft malfunctioned.
Complete Retired : You move aircraft from reserve to museum or graveyard.
If such crisis happened we would see MIG-27 not MIG-23
 
What balme ??? IAF isnt dreaming about 42 Sqds. They need it for operational doctorine. They need LCA to fill up low end.
Now tell me when and why saint antony stood on DRDO's head ???
Didnt you recall the IAF chief publicly telling DRDO to hurry up on LCA ???
Did you know in 2002 DRDO themself realise 404 isnt sufficient for for power and they need more powerful engine like 414. Google it and you will find "the hindu" articles about it. I have posted them in some thread here in PDF but couldnt remember which thread. And see when they actaully palce the order .
The JV to improve Kaveri us being talked from2007. When did RFP send out for that ???
And on contrary to what you are saying DRDO always find an excuse to extend the time line. They never look eager to finsih in time what they promise.
Even when few months ago saint himself tell them dont extend the line any more , 15 days later DRDO chief said its impossible to do it this year :pissed: and just after that Mr. Chandar took the job he is saying it would be done well within time. So what that tell you ???
The PSU is always saying they need more time then which force in the world will induct it ???
Lets not get started with radar claims or other operational claims like AOA.
Mig-27 are grounded for 2 years now and are used as only active standby. They are going to retire them in 2015. Mig-23 will follow Mig-27

EFT isnt something that coming to IAF so lets not go there.
If you dont know current Mig-21 sqds are replaced by MKIs.
IAF form last decade decided not to have dedicated role fighter but to go for swing role platforms. Thats why costly upgrade of Miraj and Jags.

You yourself saying LCA is supposed to be intercepter , yes you are right but what our PSUs choose to do ??? They add ground attack capabilities first and now working on A2A :undecided:
And you want IAF to induct LCA for intercepter role. Now tell me am i missing something here ???

hahahaha what you called a la la land is pure economics and you are constantly failing to understand it.
First thing ALH is already in market. And MHA is already pissed at them for not returning ALH for more than year which were send to servicing ;) they are looking to buy form other venders.

Cost per unit of anything that you produce includes ( R&D costs + material costs + resource cost + + depreciation costs + labour costs + other IP costs like consultancy + marketing costs )

And use google more to dig data and tell me the total order of all of your so called customers in 1/10 th of IA/IAF order ???
And please get yourself informed on how these birds are sold to existing forgine customers. Its not hard cash.
And Fact remains -Even though the bird is good it doesn't simply get itself sold if your own force is not using it.


AFAIK there is no such thing as light and heavy attack chopper. They are just attack choppers. If I am not wrong @sancho explained it in some thread.
I dont see Cobras coming either.
Why did you think IA is not training with MK-1 ??? I myself saw MK-1 in MIRC , A.Nagar.
We have simulator to train too.
Arjuna is usable on only western front. We currently have enough force projection there. So we are not in hurry.
Then why do you want to use MK-1 when MK-2 has 50+ improvements ??? And MK-2 is near complition.
Everything is good. Why waist resources ???
IA & MOD decided to scrap FMBT project for Arjuna MK-3.
About buying russian tanks ,
We had T-90 we bough T-90S and upgrade to existing T-90s. Now russians are pushing T-90MS but we are not buying system as a whole, only upgrades for Ms standards; We will need tanks in NE and Arjuna isn't going to work there so we have to buy. So you logic behind Arjuna sabotage and T-90 order is not correct. Even if that sabotage wouldn't have happened we would have gone for T-90 order as we need them in NE.
Hahhaa yes you understand the concept. Good :tup:
Now tell me what did IAF asked for ???
And also dont forget to tell me what DRDO promised for ???
What I will say IAF want simple intercepter to replace Mig-21. Simple as that. Techno growth cause the requirement drastically in 2002 but still that was only intercepter. DRDO decided to go for swing role ;) and IAF changing its course to have multirole plane like that Why would they ask for intercepter if DRDO is claiming we can make a good low cost multirole plane ???
And this s@it continue till saraswat himself made LO stealth LCA MK-3 :rofl:
Please show me where in world IAF or MOD want sarawat to make stealth out of LCA ??? He just said it.
Few years ago when MK-1 was maturing, same guy - Saraswat - came in media with more powerful and agile MK-2 , why IAF will order MK-1 then ???
You are blaming IAF for wanting the best which seller is claiming to have.
+ IAF requirements didnt change over night. 10 years is very big period and warfare methods and tech change fast.
Correct me if I am wrong.
+ plus I would like more data to support your claims. That will be good for argument
If you dont mind will you tell me which toothpaste and cellphone do you use ???
I use Dabur Red not because its indian just because its best out there
Similarly I use Apple iPhone and not maxx

Definition: Arm lobby:Unauthorized People involve in procurement process who facilitate the deal by taking facilitation charges, these ppl contain serving officer's close one, Politician close one, Beurocrats close one etc.

I will keep discussion limited to LCA other wise the post will become an article....

What ever you rebuck is 10-15 year old story, we all agree that the dream A B Bajpai saw , St Anthony tried to take that ahead.

Let me take u little back.
Def Min Mull Mulayam Singh Yadav: Almost Scraped the LCA project on request/persuation of arm lobby.
IAF forced DRDO to accept changed requirement. The message was clear, if research facility won't accept those requirement the deal will scrapped.. I agree it was fault of research facility to accept those requirements, but did they had any choice???
 
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I will keep discussion limited to LCA other wise the post will become an article....

Why not ??? Let it be article. I will read it and will reply.
It will be still better than posting a "Dalal" movie poster ;)


And please try it point by point. I too want to see your views on our PSUs
 
Why not ??? Let it be article. I will read it and will reply.
It will be still better than posting a "Dalal" movie poster ;)


And please try it point by point. I too want to see your views on our PSUs



My views on PSUs is : They are less managed and less professional approach. If I would have been chief of any such PSU, I would have out Bamboo in rear of those agency who reject the product after deal. I would have dragged them to court and made them to apologize.

The professional way of business:
Step 1: Requirement gathering
Step 2: requirement analysis
Step 3: Requirement negotiation with customer
Step 4: Time bound Requirement realization
Step 5: Trial and testing
Step 6: Product delivery...

Any (10th generation/imaginary/unrealizable) changes in between will not accepted. If Client close the deal, client have to pay heavy penalty..

and moreover public announcement of DRDO chief keeps no value, Agreement on paper does matter.. DRDO chief can say anything (We can make F22), It is irrelevant unless he did such deal with IAF.
 
and moreover public announcement of DRDO chief keeps no value, Agreement on paper does matter.. DRDO chief can say anything (We can make F22), It is irrelevant unless he did such deal with IAF.
Y0u kidding right ???
Dont you know where he said ??? It wasn't a press conference.

Yu misunderstood me. I want you to reply to my "marathon post" point by point .
 
My views on PSUs is : They are less managed and less professional approach. If I would have been chief of any such PSU, I would have out Bamboo in rear of those agency who reject the product after deal. I would have dragged them to court and made them to apologize.

The professional way of business:
Step 1: Requirement gathering
Step 2: requirement analysis
Step 3: Requirement negotiation with customer
Step 4: Time bound Requirement realization
Step 5: Trial and testing
Step 6: Product delivery...

Any (10th generation/imaginary/unrealizable) changes in between will not accepted. If Client close the deal, client have to pay heavy penalty..

and moreover public announcement of DRDO chief keeps no value, Agreement on paper does matter.. DRDO chief can say anything (We can make F22), It is irrelevant unless he did such deal with IAF.

IIIrd year btech computer science? Thats where u are, right?
 
I Have a query. The thrust of the current engine 404 is not enough for the IAF and I do believe that there will be a wartime setting ( extra thrust) for 404. Isn't it possible to use this setting for initial order so that with extra thrust IAF would feel better? I know that engine life will get reduced with this setting ( but don't know how much). I am novice on this. Senior pl answer.
Tx
 
I Have a query. The thrust of the current engine 404 is not enough for the IAF and I do believe that there will be a wartime setting ( extra thrust) for 404. Isn't it possible to use this setting for initial order so that with extra thrust IAF would feel better? I know that engine life will get reduced with this setting ( but don't know how much). I am novice on this. Senior pl answer.
Tx

So, you want to exhaust engine life in peace time. These are use in emergency. Engine are expensive, its like you use kerosene in your car in emergency then use it regular instead of petrol.
 
Thanks for the Reply

Well if the life lost is say 10 % then may be OK. provided the end user is happy. Current News/reports says that MK1 is not going to be used in Combat.
 
I Have a query. The thrust of the current engine 404 is not enough for the IAF and I do believe that there will be a wartime setting ( extra thrust) for 404. Isn't it possible to use this setting for initial order so that with extra thrust IAF would feel better? I know that engine life will get reduced with this setting ( but don't know how much). I am novice on this. Senior pl answer.
Tx

Trust isn't the only problem.
Surely IAF want more powerful engine but only changing engine will not achieve that completely. Thats why airframe in MK-2 is supposed to be modified to reduce drag and achieve weight reduction too.

AFAIK Mk-1 will never be on the combat duty. They will use them to familiarise pilots with LCA and test the plane thoroughly.
 
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Jamnagar Detachment- July 2013 - LSP-3, LSP-5, LSP-7

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I really don't like the aircraft as now there are even better options available and IAF is having some great problems with their MiGs fleet like: 21, 23/27 and even 29s...

While fighting with China that has huge numbers of F-7s, F-8s, A-5Cs, Su-27s, J-11s and J-10s along with some other bombers and a good deal of F-6s in reserves.
 
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