Generations pay off debts through slavery

[below_freezing]

then you could've just asked him for proof instead of pointing out his country's wrongs?..

I asked for proof. He said it's in a book and refuses to upload the photos. So I'm making a point that if photos exist, free versions exist on the internet.

 

[StingRoy]

Fair point, I agree and accept all that. However I don't understand why this blaming the evil Bhrahmin should continue in this day and age, when Brahmins have nothing left, no money no power. Also Brahmins alone aren't to blame for the caste systems and other evils of Hindu society.

Precisely... as I said before, these days the caste divide (if someone still wants to put a term to it) is mostly being exploited by politics and it is our politicians who are keeping this system alive more than the brahmins or kshatrias. Classic example is the case of UP and its regional politics.

But barring a few isolated cases of discrimination at the individual level it is more of a dying tradition unless politics keeps it alive. In these regards I feel south India is much more ahead in removing the divide compared to north.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

I have a question.... Why low castes(yes we have them in punjab... n are mostly christian) look different than others? they r dark,flat featured n short!!??

Why is tht?
No offence to anyone.....Im just curious.

The lower caste people were generally confined to hard- labor or profession where you are exposed to sun,so they have darker skintone.

 

[Roybot]

The lower caste people were generally confined to hard- labor or profession where you are exposed to sun,so they have darker skintone.

I think it has more to do with a lot of tribals like Santhals converting to Christianity.

 

[peristalsiso]

I asked for proof. He said it's in a book and refuses to upload the photos. So I'm making a point that if photos exist, free versions exist on the internet.

Ok, point taken.
I stand corrected.

 

[President Camacho]

I wasn't talking about you mate, I was talking about my fellow Indians.

Per the Vedas, caste does not come with birth, does it? But is anyone from any caste other than the one born as Brahmin, allowed to become a priest? Or preside over a ritual?

I am not making any accusations, mere acknowledging the truth. This acknowledgment is the first step in solving the problem of our society. Caste system became outdated the day it was made to come with inheritance. Indeed, when it came to philosophy, science, mathematics, and religion, the Brahmins did contribute more than any other community. But then, that was their job.

No one is blaming Brahmins here. Brahmins were the lawmakers, protectors of religion, so they get the blame for any mishaps with the society or religion. Also, I am not appeasing those anti-Brahmin crusaders who blame Brahmins for every single evil happening today. In fact, the modern Indian ethics are also credited to Brahmins. But that is about modern times. The talk was all about how the caste system evolved. And in that matter Brahmins do not come off as saints. It is all about older times. I would recommend you to read the book, 'India Unbound' by Gurcharan Das, and at the same time, do a brief study on the Brahmin King Pushyamitra Shunga.

I am also born in a Brahmin family. I cherish steak, relish my beer, and love my puffs. Am I a Brahmin?

P.S. I have also presided over religious rituals.

Edit: Not many, born as Brahmins, can stand the definition of Brahmin. Yet they feel pride in calling themselves so.

 

[Rig Vedic]

Per the Vedas, caste does not come with birth, does it? But is anyone from any caste other than the one born as Brahmin, allowed to become a priest? Or preside over a ritual?

There are two separate concepts - one is Varna, which is non-hereditary, and the other is occupation-based communities or "castes". Strictly speaking no one can be a Brahman by birth, so your question is not valid.

 

[President Camacho]

There are two separate concepts - one is Varna, which is non-hereditary, and the other is occupation-based communities or "castes". Strictly speaking no one can be a Brahman by birth, so your question is not valid.

You are saying exactly the same thing I did. I did not get your point.

 

[gambit]

And gambit's joke of a picture is actually AMERICAN, from the great depression.

No...It is from here...

The Great Leap Forward | History Wars Weapons

There are no shortages of information of starvation from 'The Great Leap Backward'. Your denial of it in China and focus on the American Great Depression, which has different causes, is an excellent example of denial of reality.

The Causes of Starvation During the Great Leap Forward

Reports of the food situation and missed goals did trickle into the government, but they were ignored. In April of 1959, a series of reports were shown to Chairman Mao stating that "there was severe starvation in half of the country. . ." and "his response was to ask the provinces to 'deal with it.'"12 In July of the same year, Mao received a report from an army marshal who called into question the 375 million tons of grain reportedly produced from the previous year. The report was sent privately to Mao whose response was to circulate "it to all the senior cadres . . . and launched a personal denunciation [of the army marshal]."

 

[Roybot]

Per the Vedas, caste does not come with birth, does it? But is anyone from any caste other than the one born as Brahmin, allowed to become a priest? Or preside over a ritual?

I am not making any accusations, mere acknowledging the truth. This acknowledgment is the first step in solving the problem of our society. Caste system became outdated the day it was made to come with inheritance. Indeed, when it came to philosophy, science, mathematics, and religion, the Brahmins did contribute more than any other community. But then, that was their job.

I would just like to see you back up your claim that, "it was especially the Brahmins who opposed the changes in laws regarding farm laborers". I couldn't care less about the past, India has been an independent country for over 60 years, and caste based discrimination is prohibited by the law. Thats almost 3 generations, not to forget all the benefits that backward class people have got over these years. So its high time they stop blaming Brahmins for anything and everything.

No one is blaming Brahmins here. Brahmins were the lawmakers, protectors of religion, so they get the blame for any mishaps with the society or religion. Also, I am not appeasing those anti-Brahmin crusaders who blame Brahmins for every single evil happening today. In fact, the modern Indian ethics are also credited to Brahmins. But that is about modern times. The talk was all about how the caste system evolved. And in that matter Brahmins do not come off as saints. It is all about older times. I would recommend you to read the book, 'India Unbound' by Gurcharan Das, and at the same time, do a brief study on the Brahmin King Pushyamitra Shunga.

As i mentioned earlier, Brahmins alone shouldn't be blamed for caste system, specially in this day and age. All it takes to become a priest is to know Sanskrit and be familiar with the rituals. How hard chanting mantras from a book can be? And no one is stopping other castes people from getting these skills is there? Thing is will other castes take up this not so lucrative line of priesthood? Most certainly not.

At the end of day, its a job which the son inherits from his dad and so on. Am yet to see a priest whose dad wasn't a priest himself. And even if other caste people start taking up priesthood, would people want these other caste priests to come and do puja for them? Be honest to yourself and you will know the answer.

All am saying is let Brahmins of the hook now. They are just another group of people who have inherited this legacy thats about it. People should go look for other boegyman, or better yet stop blaming others for their failures in life.

I am also born in a Brahmin family. I cherish steak, relish my beer, and love my puffs. Am I a Brahmin?

P.S. I have also presided over religious rituals.

Edit: Not many, born as Brahmins, can stand the definition of Brahmin. Yet they feel pride in calling themselves so.

I would like to hear the definition of Brahmins from you. Thanks for sugegesting that book btw, I ll have a look if I can find it.

 

[casual]

No...It is from here...

The Great Leap Forward | History Wars Weapons

There are no shortages of information of starvation from 'The Great Leap Backward'. Your denial of it in China and focus on the American Great Depression, which has different causes, is an excellent example of denial of reality.

The Causes of Starvation During the Great Leap Forward

just stop dude, your source some random wordpress blog that doesn't cite it's sources or post any information on its anonymous author "Thor". I Tineyed that picture you posted and and it's from some african village. please dude, just stop.

 

[jha]

That's why it's called bonded labour.

---------- Post added at 12:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 AM ----------



It's prevalant. I've seen it myself in Bihar.

This problem is almost cured in Bihar just like Polio..You can get a couple of cases sometimes but this menace is almost eradicated..

 

[DelhiDareDevil]

Great stuff, getting this news "out there" means more people can take a stand and do something to help these people.

Give me hundreds of more poor articles about India, then zero bad articles about Pak/China and let people from other nations suffer in silence!!!

 

[President Camacho]

I would just like to see you back up your claim that, "it was especially the Brahmins who opposed the changes in laws regarding farm laborers". I couldn't care less about the past, India has been an independent country for over 60 years, and caste based discrimination is prohibited by the law. Thats almost 3 generations, not to forget all the benefits that backward class people have got over these years. So its high time they stop blaming Brahmins for anything and everything.



As i mentioned earlier, Brahmins alone shouldn't be blamed for caste system, specially in this day and age. All it takes to become a priest is to know Sanskrit and be familiar with the rituals. How hard chanting mantras from a book can be? And no one is stopping other castes people from getting these skills is there? Thing is will other castes take up this not so lucrative line of priesthood? Most certainly not.

At the end of day, its a job which the son inherits from his dad and so on. Am yet to see a priest whose dad wasn't a priest himself. And even if other caste people start taking up priesthood, would people want these other caste priests to come and do puja for them? Be honest to yourself and you will know the answer.

All am saying is let Brahmins of the hook now. They are just another group of people who have inherited this legacy thats about it. People should go look for other boegyman, or better yet stop blaming others for their failures in life.



I would like to hear the definition of Brahmins from you. Thanks for sugegesting that book btw, I ll have a look if I can find it.

You are taking my posts too negatively. No one blamed Brahmins for anything. Especially not in this era.

However, it is true that in older times the Brahmins codified the law, so they must have taken care that law did not discriminate against any particular section of the society, which it did. And the biggest beneficiaries were Brahmins and Rajputs/Kshatrias.

Hinduism is an ever evolving religion, and we should always be open to new and right changes.

About your query, whether anyone will accept a priest born in a non-Brahmin family - No. And that is simply because the concept of caste defined at birth is deeply ingrained.

And no, I do not have any links or pictures to back up my claim on Brahmins protesting that particular law. It was 30 years ago, and barely made any news. But in the same breath, you should also understand that their protesting a law that merely appears to be liberating the poor may not necessarily make the Brahmins villains. They had their own valid reasons to oppose the law, which in effect made Brahmins discriminated against.

About the bold part, I hope you can see that my posts are completely open to legitimate interpretation. If you simply read what you want to read, then who am I to stop you.

About definition of Brahmin, my question was more of a statement. We both know what a Brahmin is. Or may be you will understand more, after you read that book I recommended. It is not expensive, try the hard cover if you can find.

http://www.vedpuriswar.org/book_review/India Unbound.pdf


P.S. In school times, I was part of the crowds that carried out protests on Sansad Marg, New Delhi against the implementation of the Mandal Ayog. It does not make me a villain/bogeyman, or someone bitter about lower castes. Even today anyone with even a slight mental capacity can see how the reservation has created a rather wider gap between the castes.

 

[President Camacho]

Deleted....