Featured General Qamar Javed Bajwa to visit Saudi Arabia next week

[Bilal.]

Yes, and if these means this is the start of Pakistan learning to gradually but slowly stand on it's own two feet them excellent. Wind is definately blowing towards new cold war US v China.

Now UAE has recognised Israel (You can be 100% sure this decision was taken in consultation with Saudi Arabia), expect Saudis to recognise Israel soon too.

This may create a Saudi/UAE/Israel coalition against Iran and backed by US. India may then dump Iran completely and throw in everything with this coalition in which case Pakistan will need to look at a China/Iran/Turkey/Qatar formation to rival this.

We need to continue having good relations (probably as close as before may not be possible) without giving a inch on our red lines. That should be made amply clear.

 

[Yasser76]

We need to continue having good relations (probably as close as before may not be possible) without giving a inch on our red lines. That should be made amply clear.

I totally agree, but in MBS I feel we are not dealing with a level headed person. You are either totally with him or totally against him. Look at his treatment of Yemen, Turkey and Qatar. This is a man who sees compromise as a failure. Do not expect Pakistan to be made an exception. I think he will convey to us you "shut up and take our money or else". Knowing Imran Khan I can guess what the answer will be....

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The only right thing to do is to end relations. Nothing good can expected from this fiasco.

no emotions dear
remember that
it will be unwise and very immature. keep friends and foes closer. we don't live in isolation. lets be selfish. it wont be beneficial for Pakistan to antagonize a very powerful rich and an unstable crown prince who is the defecto Ruler of KSA and give more space to India that in has got with UAE.

think of tens of thousands of poor Pakistanis that are already facing harsh and targeted treatment in the middle eastern countries. first any shia Pakistanis were targeted and kicked out of the countries and now almost every Pakistani is facing the hatred from their Arab employers. check out the pleas and requests by the Pakistani labour in Middle east who are being bullied by their employers and the authorities, who cant just leave and come to Pakistan because their families depend on them.

I do advocate self respect and dignity though and at least damage control. don't be upset that things are not in our favour and our Arab brothers are not in forgiving mood. now that's where true leadership and diplomacy shines then there is a cause to celebrate and brag about it as well.
if KSA and UAE act like China or Turkey towards us then what achievement is it by our government?

 

[Bilal.]

I totally agree, but in MBS I feel we are not dealing with a level headed person. You are either totally with him or totally against him. Look at his treatment of Yemen, Turkey and Qatar. This is a man who sees compromise as a failure. Do not expect Pakistan to be made an exception. I think he will convey to us you "shut up and take our money or else". Knowing Imran Khan I can guess what the answer will be....

We can try and then again the world is changing. The US is already their competitor in energy industry while China is/will be there biggest partner in energy import. So in mid to long term they will also rebalance.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Informative video, thanks for sharing.



I reckon part of our establishment would love to take that route, but unfortunately the donkeys and cows (grass eaters) purposely shackled this country in so much debt, that it is pretty much impossible to maneuver freely.. at least in the medium to long term.. which by then it's probably too late, and thats if the incumbent gov is given a chance to fix things (economy).

you summed it up very well in the end.
we need strong economy to have a respectable standing internationally.
we have been solely relying on our military might as an automatic right of appreciation and admiration by Arab monarchs. over decades they have built their forces and are slowly but constantly easing out our military personnel. we no longer amaze them our Atomic power also doesn't matter to them much unless its used against their arch enemy Iran.

our political leadership lacks self belief and in the country. they are ready to take a flight and have pretty much stashed away their wealth out of the country and only return to Pakistan as a game reserve hunting season to make some cash and then retire to their palaces and mansions abroad.
our top military and intelligence brace also seeks foreign employment or settlement after retirement.

so in this sense we are responsible in getting ourselves to a position where Arab world sees no value in engaging with us or caring for our national interests and our causes. we are just an always needy relative who has nothing to offer.

 

[batmannow]

you summed it up very well in the end.
we need strong economy to have a respectable standing internationally.
we have been solely relying on our military might as an automatic right of appreciation and admiration by Arab monarchs. over decades they have built their forces and are slowly but constantly easing out our military personnel. we no longer amaze them our Atomic power also doesn't matter to them much unless its used against their arch enemy Iran.

our political leadership lacks self belief and in the country. they are ready to take a flight and have pretty much stashed away their wealth out of the country and only return to Pakistan as a game reserve hunting season to make some cash and then retire to their palaces and mansions abroad.
our top military and intelligence brace also seeks foreign employment or settlement after retirement.

so in this sense we are responsible in getting ourselves to a position where Arab world sees no value in engaging with us or caring for our national interests and our causes. we are just an always needy relative who has nothing to offer.

What if that Arab king wants Mr bajwa to announce that pakistan accepts state of Israel and is ready to give up its nuclear assests for its economic welfare, will u accept it?
Or once again we ill become the victim of FA pass head of states and his illogical decesion making?

 

[Patriot forever]

Another tender-age immature genius from the Naizi wood works pops out! And really, how long did it take you to understand that everything these days is politically motivated? including your lousy defense of a economy in shambles, hundreds of thousands jobless, no FDI, zero economic activity, industry dead, dollar to Rs. parity out of hand, living becoming almost impossible for the masses yada yada yada!

Such comments are only found form serving military supporters of this government who are getting their monthly salaries and perks on time, ex-Pakistanis living in foreign countries, or simply deaf and dumb idiots who have no bearing whatsoever of on ground realities in Pakistan.

My Yada Yada bro with respect I will repeat again what I said earlier please educate yourself before commenting on a complex topic as economy. Btw I am in my 20's, such remarks don't add value to your comment.
I will help you with that just by elaborating one point you mentioned. Did you know plmn burned 15.5 billion dollars of forex to keep the rupee at artificially inflated value. The actual market value of rupee depreciated during Plmn term, if you know how currency works. You are just seeing it right now because there is no masking.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

As recently as last week, Imran Khan was talking up his efforts to mediate between Saudi and Iran, which in the glossary of Pakistani diplomatic euphemisms means implementing Riyadh’s instructions.

LOL, this sums up our foreign policy re KSA.

And the Amy, always keen to spot an opportunity to monetarily profit at the cost of the country’s interests (fanning the Kashmir dispute flames helps inflate the annual defense budget increments,for instance) thinks it could still turn a profit.

hmm. this line seems to be picked up from the book of a populist anti army group among the Indian, Western and their domestic allies who insist Pak army profits from its conflict with India as a complete explanation for the India Pakistan conflict over Kashmir (... and they stop there not bothering to question Indian military and its intelligence agency activities against Pakistan and their role in blocking any peace agreement among the 2 states).

this notion maybe true that Pak military sees "profit" in war but Indian hand is also contributing to this clap. Indian military leadership in the past and present has clearly stated that peace with Pakistan is of no benefit to India and instead pressure should be increased on its military that is exhausted due to insurgency and unstable border with Afghanistan.

Pakistan can now align its Islamist rhetoric towards a new Mecca: Turkey. That is critical for domestic consumption, and for the sustained production of jihadists, a key tool of its security and foreign policies.

now this line is downright inflammatory and I absolutely reject it. this is the line that comes out of Indian foreign office and their talkshows. It is not Pakistan that uses terrorists but its India which has used terrorism and insurgencies as a state policy against Pakistan from east Pakistan to Baluchistan, KPK and setting camps in Afghanistan as early as 1950s.
the captured Indian spymaster Kulbhushan Jadhav broke the face of Indian propaganda and our own domestic commentators who touted that line and thats why this condemned man must not be hanged and kept as a reminder for the world to show Indian face.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

What if that Arab king wants Mr bajwa to announce that pakistan accepts state of Israel and is ready to give up its nuclear assests for its economic welfare, will u accept it?
Or once again we ill become the victim of FA pass head of states and his illogical decesion making?

this is hypothetical and I there is so much speculation where I cant respond with satisfaction.
I can counter a question as well what if the crown prince orders the execution of Gen Bajwa to teach Pakistan of its insolence? what will the world care? whill UAE and Egypt care? or west care? and will PMLn and PPP care or celebrate along with JUI F and TTP?

 

[batmannow]

this is hypothetical and I there is so much speculation where I cant respond with satisfaction.
I can counter a question as well what if the crown prince orders the execution of Gen Bajwa to teach Pakistan of its insolence? what will the world care? whill UAE and Egypt care? or west care? and will PMLn and PPP care or celebrate along with JUI F and TTP?

We live in a world in which everything is posible and in very recent times Saudis we're pulling our strings that's not hypothetical nor satisfactional?
Why just now Saudis became so angry on pakistani leadership?
Why we hvnt heard nothing from Saudis on kashmiris?
Or else palestiniens?
Why they are afraid of hving a non Arabic Islamic group of countries?
These all are very accepted facts and aired many times?
you can't hide behind, words, slowly pakistani nation is awakening and wants the answers from. It's leadership which has let them. Down politically and emotionally?
Dont you think?
I hope you won't, think that only our military leadership has the knowledge to make national decesion by its own or else pulls the strings of our poor political leaders for thier sake of deceions which often the case in pakistani history?
Which are hard facts themselves, can our military lead ship have the heart to say NO to MBS who is the one giving jobs to our former army chiefs?
With all the, hard facts with all the best wishes from. Ma heart, I hope Mr bajwa will stand with the heart and minds of common pakistanis and won't be telling us, that we been told that are we with them or against them.this time?
Cause that's not, early 2000s, it's 2020 highly digiltalised world and ppls are going to voice thier opinions no matter even if you or me like it or not?
Yes our political leaders are mostly croupt but you or me we don't hve any rights to paint them. Ghaddars to take advantage in our own intersts?
And do you think JUF is the political front of TTP?
OR ELSE you are just painting them red cause they have asked some right questions on the bad decesion staken by our establishment and thier bad role in the political process?
I think we all are questionable to the pakistani nation and accountability must be held to everyone equally?
Thanks for kind but some hard jabs!
Pakisran zindabad

 

[H!TchHiker]

Going through this thread, one realizes that no one on this forum really has any clue, as what GHQ thinks of this SMQ induced debacle.

Nonetheless, remittance is also another major aspect one should keep in mind, when reviewing our relationship, something irrelevant people on this forum have no answer to.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1568832

This is what GHQ thinks and they are the one who decides ..but our friends here are living in some other reality

https://twitter.com/x/status/1293894152258756614

 

[mingle]

Oil prices are all time low even Saudi facility on deffered payments won't work Pak can sustain shock and price is not going up anytime soon but I feel it's not what we most think here MBS cares about Kashmir I don't think so but having OIC summit over Kashmir not a big thing for him either india has no choice but to buy Saudi oil Iran kicked them out also Iran is under sanctions. Lets see cat will out of box soon.

 

[mingle]

This is what GHQ thinks and they are the one who decides ..but our friends here are living in some other reality

https://twitter.com/x/status/1293894152258756614

Boss is IK he is PM no matter what GHQ thinks they have to say yes to boss I still believe it's not about Kashmir let's see

 

[H!TchHiker]

Boss is IK he is PM no matter what GHQ thinks they have to say yes to boss I still believe it's not about Kashmir let's see

I can’t say anything literally if you believe IK will decide ...

 

[diligence]

The current frantic activities regarding Pak-Saudi relations in the backdrop of a recent statement from the Pak Foreign minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi are indicative of deep strategic changes in global geopolitics. Given the extremely fluid global situation, this might actually be the time for both Pakistan and the KSA leaderships to have a deeper and realistic look at these relations. To start with, it is not a secret the Pak-Saudi relationship is not really based on equality and has no well-defined parameters or basis. It's based on the blind trust and deep respect shown by Pak side (due to the two holy mosques in KSA) and wishful expectations on part of KSA leadership. That was working quite well when the strategic interests of Pakistan and KSA were generally in alignment. But as the KSA leadership started behaving as a regional power in connivance with the US and Israel, the glaring cracks in the relations were quite visible. (This write-up was produced before UAE-Israel agreement but now clear signs of future global alignments are visibly taking place). Muslims the world over, Pakistanis in particular, don't really support anything linked with Israel due to the fact that Israelis are continuously and illegally occupying Aqsa mosque and have committed grave war crimes against the people of Palestine.

On top of that, Saudis have consistently been trying to dictate Pak foreign policy that is purely a delusional thinking on their part. In particular their demand from Pakistan to stay away from Iran, Turkey, and Malaysia, China, and the CPEC project makes no sense to us Pakistanis. That is even more so because of the fact that Saudis (and Emiratis) are openly supporting our arch enemy, India, despite all the past Indian aggressions against Pakistan and continued Indian genocide of the people of Indian-occupied J&K. All that is more than enough to show that KSA policies are purely based on their delusions of acting as regional power by using petro-dollars rather than factoring in the issues related to the Muslims. That is, in fact, fine with us Pakistanis because it is the right of individual countries to define their own policies the way they wish. But that is true for Pakistan too. How can then Saudis tell us to trim our relations with other countries? If you want us to factor in your sensitivities (which are mostly misplaced in any case) then you must bear our sensitivities in your mind while formulating your foreign policy.

Given the prevailing fluid geopolitics at the global level, it seems that KSA and Pakistan are opting for two opposing global blocks. It is advisable to both the countries that it is absolutely fine for them to be a part of two opposing blocks as long as a common ground between them is found and well-defined parameters are in place to guide the foreign policies visa-vis each other without getting to one an other's throat. It is very much doable and must be done in the case of Pak-Saudi relations. These parameters must define the nature of direct Pak-KSA relations (such as defining the exact role of Pak troops stationed in KSA, trade, investment, Pakistani expats, etc.) and indirect relations (such as KSA invest in India and other issues related to third party relations). The later aspect might actually be more complex to formulate. For example, we Pakistanis don't really care if KSA or UAE confer their highest civil award onto a globally disgraced criminal such as the butcher of Gujrat Modi. We believe that no medal in world can really honor a cold-blooded murderer and globally recognized criminal. Rather, quite opposite, such an act brings dishonor and disgrace to the medal itself. What objection Pakistanis might have if Saudis or Emirates are bent on bringing disgrace to their highest national reward other than feeling sad and petty for our friends. Moreover, Pakistanis cannot bother less about big Saudi plans to invest in Modi's India despite the fact that India has always been the open enemy of Muslims especially Pakistani Muslims. Expansionist and aggressive policies pursued by Indian governments have bled the Muslims of this region and elsewhere enormously. It might be mentioned that India was one of the founding members (and is still an active supporter) of takfiri gang of ISIS. But if there is a war tomorrow between India and Pakistan, Saudis must not expect from us to spare their invested interests in India from our attacks. Like any other country in world, Pakistan would try to destroy enemy's industrial base to bring the enemy to its knees. Saudis should not expect from Pakistan to spare any industrial units or infrastructure in India just because Saudis wish us to do so.

It is now evident that KSA and UAE are actively participating in the US camp. They are acting in bigger geopolitical games that are really beyond their real worth with the mentorship of USA and Israel. They are willingly getting onto a slippery slope that will take them deeper in the mess and make them increasingly more desperate as the time passes. Their mentors will be pushing and exploiting them more and more until they become useless. How could Israel and the USA be the allies of KSA when the real goal for Israelis is to establish the greater Israel with boundary near Madina.

Having said all the above, it may be advisable for Saudis to shed their knee-jerk foreign policies and be prudent while formulating these policies. Petro-dollars are having an increasingly diminished role in the global and regional geopolitics. Nation-states are now formulating policies based on their long-term national interests and not for gaining temporary minor monitory benefits. Using money for hiring state and non-state actors and use them to fight proxy wars might not be working any more. Dropping dollars in front of Pakistani, Egyptian, Sudanese, or other governments may actually backfire at them as the fire always reaches to the source of its fuel.