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Gen Tariq Khan, IG FC: We had to clear Afghan border village because NATO was MIA

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I probably can understand your concerns and if you trust me, I share those concerns with you. Sonic is a nice person just like you are; he may not be more but I am sure as much concerned about his country as much are you. All of us are like that, while I am staying here in US, my immediate family members, my parents and siblings are still in Pakistan. These are difficult times, and while talking about pain and sufferings, sometimes the pain shows up in our writings. No one wishes ill for Pakistan, but there are Ayas in Quran and there are ahadiths that point to the fact that nations do suffer and because of their own bad deeds. I will not quote those ayas or ahadiths here as it will be taken as prosthelising which is no longer tolerated on this forum. At any rate, this is something that can be resolved through PMs and I’ll encourage both you and Sonic to do that. Also, I would like to mention that Blain and Agno are two Moderators who always keep their Moderator’s powers aside while taking part in the discussion so please give them what they rightfully deserve.
 
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And what of members who wish for "azaab" on their own people? What example are they setting?

qsaark, there is a huge difference between stating a hadith or ayat and making bud-dua of such a degree. There is no middle ground in the matter for me. I can only know sonic from his words on this forum.

MastanKhan also said some harsh words that I disagreed with, but he did not go beyond the limits and invoke Islaam to make an obvious bud dua.
 
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so why dont you tell us who is responsible for his death, or many other jawans or many other innocent Pakistanis victims of suicide bombing, ....


I have already given the facts somewhere in this thread and let me again repeat it for you. It’s the misdeeds of Mush and cronies and high command of the army who are responsible for all this mess. There was a time when one could have arrested this Mullah of Swat by sending just two policemen but no one did. And same goes for the Lal Masjid fiasco, and hence all these suicide bombings. But Mush and company let it grow just to scare the USA and west to milk money from them. Hence, now young army officers and jawan are paying with their lives for his mistakes.


Your family's contribution to the country are immense and of great proportion but you on the other hand ?


And same goes for you. Before you point fingers on others, would you care to share your contributions, if there are any, with the forum members?
 
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I have already given the facts somewhere in this thread and let me again repeat it for you. It’s the misdeeds of Mush and cronies and high command of the army who are responsible for all this mess. There was a time when one could have arrested this Mullah of Swat by sending just two policemen but no one did. And same goes for the Lal Masjid fiasco, and hence all these suicide bombings. But Mush and company let it grow just to scare the USA and west to milk money from them. Hence, now young army officers and jawan are paying with their lives for his mistakes.





And same goes for you. Before you point fingers on others, would you care to share your contributions, if there are any, with the forum members?
actually I didn't ask for your contribution for the nation, I could care less, I called you a jerk but the mod edited the reply. As far as my contribution then don't worry, I'm not the one wishing azaab on 160 million innocent Pakistanis, you are.
 
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I have already given the facts somewhere in this thread and let me again repeat it for you. It’s the misdeeds of Mush and cronies and high command of the army who are responsible for all this mess. There was a time when one could have arrested this Mullah of Swat by sending just two policemen but no one did. And same goes for the Lal Masjid fiasco, and hence all these suicide bombings. But Mush and company let it grow just to scare the USA and west to milk money from them. Hence, now young army officers and jawan are paying with their lives for his mistakes.
OK, my dislikeness for Musharraf is not hidden but yar Sonic, it is not justice to put all the blame on Musharraf alone. The fact of the matter is, all the successive governments starting from Zia to BB, NS and Musharraf are responsible for the current mess. Hence, I will hold all of them equally responsible for the present situation and for the deaths of our civilians and soldiers.
 
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... I called you a jerk but the mod edited the reply.

So you did not care what blain did or said and you repeated your offence again? Shame on you and you know you are a bone head idiot. That's what you wanted to hear. Just remeber, if you respect others, then you will be respected too.
 
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tragedy is that that there are more like the IG FC in the heirarchy than those who would make a difference. It is pitiful.
alright man, this entire time you've been making an argument where there is actually not argument. You began with questioning the IG FC's take on capturing the militant top taliban leadership and where did you end up? you misinterpreted the comment of IG FC to a great degree, no where did he say that the leadership shouldn't be captured. He said that he's all for getting the top leadership of militant captured but the more effective way of getting that done is through intel and sting based operation rather than sending infantry to every nook and cranny. that's it end of argument unless you can come up with a better military strategy.

Now on to your insulting Pakistani people....

Pakistanis have answer for everything except for substance

What do the youth of the country know----only hatred and dislike of the u s---the youth and men are clueless of what the reality is---it is like blind leading the blind---pak youth say---pak millitary is doing a great job---wow---when did the youth and men of pak become so intellectually conscious to see and differentiate reality from obsession---what is the right word for it---one part praising the other!

Young men of pak normally have the mental capability of adolescent teenagers---majority stays at the capacity of 20--25 years old mentality till they grow old---they are like little children, who cannot speak up or speak out until their daddy's or mommy's give them permission---.

the average pakistani is not programmed for it-

just who are you, man? or better yet, who do you think you are? some superior entity? some..some god given gift to Pakistani people? or maybe that being in California you are some how better than the common Pakistani living in Pakistan, equipped with unorthodox personality which enables to you question in a highly sophisticated manner and think at level which Pakistanis in Pakistan aren't capable of handling? because that is what the impression one would get by the way you have summed up and insulted the people of Pakistan in your posts.

People in Pakistan aren't as clueless and immature as you have made them out to be, or incapable of comprehending the issues, or as hate and rage filled lunatics and whatever you have accused them of being, if anything by generalizing an entire nation you've shown a great deal of your own ignorance. For any one rage filled rally in Pakistan I can name you a so many peaceful ones held in support of the troops to global peace to global warming and pollution etc. For any one raged filled mullah I can name you so many philosophers, great writers, philanthropists, scientists so many inspirational individuals from a good teacher to a law enforcement member, and all of recent times. But your shortsightedness is so epic that you only see what is shown to you at close distance which is the negative. You accuse Pakistanis of not being able to speak and think for themselves but it is quiet evident that it is you who is in such plight.

I can just as easily question your own thinking process as you have questioned Pakistanis. Where are you getting this information about what kind of mentality young men in Pakistan posses and age 25 or whatever is their cut off age in the improvement of thinking process till they grow old. what is the source of your information? who's done this study? you by any chance? for your american H.S. paper? grow up, guy. Your repeated offensive and at times abusive remarks about Pakistani people have only shown how ignorant and utterly foolish (I dont want to say idiot) you actually are, the things you're trying to accuse Pakistani people of being. I can just as easily call you all these but I wont.
 
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So you did not care what blain did or said and you repeated your offence again? Shame on you and you know you are a bone head idiot. That's what you wanted to hear. Just remeber, if you respect others, then you will be respected too.

people who wish and seek the wrath of god upon innocent people and imply they will also enjoy it dont need to be respected.
 
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people who wish and seek the wrath of god upon innocent people and imply they will also enjoy it dont need to be respected.


Let me correct you. I did not wish or seek the wrath of God and I am no one to ask for it. I just stated the fact based on what’s happening in Pakistan and what most of the people in Pakistan are saying themselves. Did you care to read blain’s posts? He has a better explanation for you.
 
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alright man, this entire time you've been making an argument where there is actually not argument.

I can just as easily question your own thinking process as you have questioned Pakistanis. Where are you getting this information about what kind of mentality young men in Pakistan posses and age 25 or whatever is their cut off age in the improvement of thinking process till they grow old. what is the source of your information? who's done this study? you by any chance? for your american H.S. paper? grow up, guy. Your repeated offensive and at times abusive remarks about Pakistani people have only shown how ignorant and utterly foolish (I dont want to say idiot) you actually are, the things you're trying to accuse Pakistani people of being. I can just as easily call you all these but I wont.



Hello iphone,

Welcome to the board---my 7 years old boy wants me to put the sniper rifle guy over here----he thinks it is funny so don't worry it is not meant for you but just to please him---:sniper: :bunny: my girl wanted me to put the shooter taking out the rabbit---anyway now to the serious stuff---.


So much steam I see coming out, I must have hit the boiler pipe---it doesn't come down to any research about the abilities and capabilites of young pakistanis in general---it doesnot need to be a part of any study in any american high school but it is a part and parcel of basically a lots of the pakistani homes---a nation where the genertion of young men and women is growing up like lost souls---without any integrity, without any conscience, without any moral values.

Where, when men talk to threaten, they say KHUDA KI QASAM TUMHARI GAF MAAR DOON GA---or khuda ki qasam tumhari maan behan ko ch----d dalon ga----a nation of men, who cannot complete a sentence without lacing it full of profanity and vulgarity---a nation of islamic men where the mother and sister are the most supposedly verbally raped women in the society and boys and men are the most verbally sodo---mized individuals----where the men hurl threats at total rape of the opponents women and threatening with the un-natural act with the boyz of the family---it has become such a common practise that the newspapers are even tired of writing about it---.

Some of you, who may not like what I write, are also salivating at the oppurtunity to confront me and do that to my wife, daughter, mother and sisters----because that is what pakistani men do when they threaten other pakistani men----you, for one is sure---you tried to do it in your post.

What makes the young men beat up their teachers at the university and colleges----and don't tell me they don't---because I the pakistani , did that when I was at karachi university---I said things to that chairman ---I was just being a pakistani and got carried away---. So---don't ask me about research---.

Now, coming down to the discussion---people need to understand that the IG FC may have said what he said---the interpretation will be different to different people---and each one of them will run with their version---if the IG didnot want to create controvery, he should have refrained from making the statement about not pursuing the leadership----because then it becomes cannon fodder---it also becomes the center of news on the world media by every news agency picking it up on a given day and splashing it around--- " pak general says that they are not after the capture of terrorist leaders "---oh gee thanks---another headache created for pakistan---.

What is a RORSHACHTEST---it is---I describe what I see in the picture---not what you say---pakistan or any palce is like a rorshach test---I am going to write about it based on my experiences, observations and research---I am not going to hide it under the rug as most pakistanis do---I want to put a face and a name on this constant state of profanity that pakistan has become and that you are raring to have a go at me, if you get the oppurtunity to do so.

It has become a habbit of my countrymen to state that some people look at the positives and some look at the negatives---and they state it with a lots of under handed sarcasm---. I am not here critiscizing people---critics just critiscize and don't show a way to go---I am stating here the same thing that the u s senate came up with---they screwed up royally when they let OBL escape---maybe that was their game plan or maybe not---but then pak millitary screwed up double digit when they let OBL and his cohorts disappear after they came down the mountain. So----replace the name of u s millitary with the name of pak millitary and you have the answer.

So many times I have written that during the initial stages of the afg war---pakistan had written off india---india and the reaction from india was nowhere in the minds of the pakistani generals---india was looking at america falling into the lap of pak one more time, heads first---india realized that if it happened this time again that pak and u s became full time partners, hindustan would be doomed for at least half a century---that is why they either created that fiasco at the dehli parliament or if they didnot, they took full advantage of it.

Pak and and pak generals were living so much in ether, that they had already made up their minds that india was no more a threat---that peace will prevail ultimately----that is why the pak air force didnot order any high end aircraft right after 9/11---they had assessed that there was no chance of war with india---these generals have made blunders after blunders since 9/11 in wrongly assessing the heightened threat against pak---wrongly assessing the threat of al qaeda which turned into the threat created by TTP later on.

India pounced upon the oppurtunity that it got and steam rolled pakistan right into it---once the indian momentum picked up---the paks were only able to make up defencive statements---india came right in the our house and snatched the goose that lay the golden egg right in the bright daylight and our warriors were at first not even aware of it, when they became aware, in order to hide their blunder, they acted non-challant, and when the pain really really hurt them and the nation---now we are screaming murder against india.

Why do pakistanis have to learn after their home has to burn down, after their children and family members have to be blown up by the suicide bombers---it takes intelligence and the power of observation and analysis to reach to that conclusion---if you lack intelligence and are clueless as to what is happening around you, that may, one day come down to destroy you, then you are in deep trouble.

You people didnot listen to what I stated in my previous post----it took some people 7 years to see the light---ie---it took them 7 years to find out that the TTP and al qaeda were real enemies---well---don't blame me if I saw the light in the very first second after 9/11---I observed what I did---and I put it on the paper years ago---so don't blame me for your lack of vision---don't blame me for your ineptitude or lack of understanding---blame yourself.
 
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Hi,

To those living i pakistan and thinking that we don't love our motherland as much---for them



' Yahan tangya qafas hai---wahan fiqar a ashiana

Nan yahan mera thikana---nan wahan mera thikana '.
 
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It’s the misdeeds of Mush and cronies and high command of the army who are responsible for all this mess.
What misdeeds of Mush are responsible for the mess of decades of jihadi tanzeems that have been bred from Zia's time? The damaage had already been done before even Mush came into power. While people like you were asleep and oly woke up afetr lal masjid, the fact is that that the lashkars, jaish's, sipahs, talibs were already fully active and openly recruiting in every city and town of Pakistan. THAT was the biggest blunder, not anything Mush did to try to roll back this madness, and for which he was labeled traitor and American/Mossad agent etc. Even the very mild madrassah reforms he wanted to do, made al the mullahs angry and he had to cut back and here you're talking about arrested a popular mullah like Fazlullah in Sawat?

Tell on what charge would he have been arrested on by two of your policeman? The same policeman cannot keep Malvi Aziz of Lal masjid in jail for more than a few days despite all that we know of him. Even Sufi M of Sawat will likely be releases by the courts as his trial is prolonged till he dies.

There was a time when one could have arrested this Mullah of Swat by sending just two policemen but no one did.

Wrong, there was no such time, except when he was maybe unknown, but random mullahs can't be arrested on no charges or thought crimes yet. When Mullah FM became famous, he was VERY popular in Sawat and his call for nizam-e-adil would have been supported by almost anyone in Pakistan. Either you are ignorant of this fact or are deliberately trying to divert the issue into an anti-army crusade.

And same goes for the Lal Masjid fiasco, and hence all these suicide bombings. But Mush and company let it grow just to scare the USA and west to milk money from them. Hence, now young army officers and jawan are paying with their lives for his mistakes.

This is only point I agree, that mistakes were made and it could have been handled better, but the outcome would have still been the same. Mullahs would have been mad for the authorities trying to stop the moral jihad of Ghazi.

None of this justifies you trying to wish and wait for Allah ka azaaab on Pakistani qaum. The fact you have no shame or remorse for doing so is unbelievable to me. Allah ka khoof karo if you don't care about anyone else.
 
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Hello iphone,

Welcome to the board---my 7 years old boy wants me to put the sniper rifle guy over here----he thinks it is funny so don't worry it is not meant for you but just to please him---:sniper: :bunny: my girl wanted me to put the shooter taking out the rabbit---anyway now to the serious stuff---.


So much steam I see coming out, I must have hit the boiler pipe---it doesn't come down to any research about the abilities and capabilites of young pakistanis in general---it doesnot need to be a part of any study in any american high school but it is a part and parcel of basically a lots of the pakistani homes---a nation where the genertion of young men and women is growing up like lost souls---without any integrity, without any conscience, without any moral values.

Where, when men talk to threaten, they say KHUDA KI QASAM TUMHARI GAF MAAR DOON GA---or khuda ki qasam tumhari maan behan ko ch----d dalon ga----a nation of men, who cannot complete a sentence without lacing it full of profanity and vulgarity---a nation of islamic men where the mother and sister are the most supposedly verbally raped women in the society and boys and men are the most verbally sodo---mized individuals----where the men hurl threats at total rape of the opponents women and threatening with the un-natural act with the boyz of the family---it has become such a common practise that the newspapers are even tired of writing about it---.

Some of you, who may not like what I write, are also salivating at the oppurtunity to confront me and do that to my wife, daughter, mother and sisters----because that is what pakistani men do when they threaten other pakistani men----you, for one is sure---you tried to do it in your post.

What makes the young men beat up their teachers at the university and colleges----and don't tell me they don't---because I the pakistani , did that when I was at karachi university---I said things to that chairman ---I was just being a pakistani and got carried away---. So---don't ask me about research---.

Now, coming down to the discussion---people need to understand that the IG FC may have said what he said---the interpretation will be different to different people---and each one of them will run with their version---if the IG didnot want to create controvery, he should have refrained from making the statement about not pursuing the leadership----because then it becomes cannon fodder---it also becomes the center of news on the world media by every news agency picking it up on a given day and splashing it around--- " pak general says that they are not after the capture of terrorist leaders "---oh gee thanks---another headache created for pakistan---.

What is a RORSHACHTEST---it is---I describe what I see in the picture---not what you say---pakistan or any palce is like a rorshach test---I am going to write about it based on my experiences, observations and research---I am not going to hide it under the rug as most pakistanis do---I want to put a face and a name on this constant state of profanity that pakistan has become and that you are raring to have a go at me, if you get the oppurtunity to do so.

It has become a habbit of my countrymen to state that some people look at the positives and some look at the negatives---and they state it with a lots of under handed sarcasm---. I am not here critiscizing people---critics just critiscize and don't show a way to go---I am stating here the same thing that the u s senate came up with---they screwed up royally when they let OBL escape---maybe that was their game plan or maybe not---but then pak millitary screwed up double digit when they let OBL and his cohorts disappear after they came down the mountain. So----replace the name of u s millitary with the name of pak millitary and you have the answer.

So many times I have written that during the initial stages of the afg war---pakistan had written off india---india and the reaction from india was nowhere in the minds of the pakistani generals---india was looking at america falling into the lap of pak one more time, heads first---india realized that if it happened this time again that pak and u s became full time partners, hindustan would be doomed for at least half a century---that is why they either created that fiasco at the dehli parliament or if they didnot, they took full advantage of it.

Pak and and pak generals were living so much in ether, that they had already made up their minds that india was no more a threat---that peace will prevail ultimately----that is why the pak air force didnot order any high end aircraft right after 9/11---they had assessed that there was no chance of war with india---these generals have made blunders after blunders since 9/11 in wrongly assessing the heightened threat against pak---wrongly assessing the threat of al qaeda which turned into the threat created by TTP later on.

India pounced upon the oppurtunity that it got and steam rolled pakistan right into it---once the indian momentum picked up---the paks were only able to make up defencive statements---india came right in the our house and snatched the goose that lay the golden egg right in the bright daylight and our warriors were at first not even aware of it, when they became aware, in order to hide their blunder, they acted non-challant, and when the pain really really hurt them and the nation---now we are screaming murder against india.

Why do pakistanis have to learn after their home has to burn down, after their children and family members have to be blown up by the suicide bombers---it takes intelligence and the power of observation and analysis to reach to that conclusion---if you lack intelligence and are clueless as to what is happening around you, that may, one day come down to destroy you, then you are in deep trouble.

You people didnot listen to what I stated in my previous post----it took some people 7 years to see the light---ie---it took them 7 years to find out that the TTP and al qaeda were real enemies---well---don't blame me if I saw the light in the very first second after 9/11---I observed what I did---and I put it on the paper years ago---so don't blame me for your lack of vision---don't blame me for your ineptitude or lack of understanding---blame yourself.



Sir it is a nice one...
People do mistakes but to "learn" from a mistake makes mistake a lesson. In my personal opinion I agree that politicians/army did blunders and corruption but the society is made by people not by generals or politicians. We Pakistanis have to stand to make the things better around us. Musharaf had no policy to follow...If he had a roadmap than we could be an equal partner of U.S. but again many people here like Musharaf....

Anyways you have a nice "sight"...
:smitten:



:pakistan:
 
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You people didnot listen to what I stated in my previous post----it took some people 7 years to see the light---ie---it took them 7 years to find out that the TTP and al qaeda were real enemies---well---don't blame me if I saw the light in the very first second after 9/11---I observed what I did---and I put it on the paper years ago---so don't blame me for your lack of vision---don't blame me for your ineptitude or lack of understanding---blame yourself.

Wow, you're such a genius that it took you only 1 second to figure out after 9/11, that Al Qaeda was responsible and that Pakistani teenagers attitude is responsible for the entire world's mess.

What school must one go to, in order to come up with such amazing ability for deductive reasoning? You should join the CIA and go hunt for Iraqi WMDs.

All I see in your posts is hyperbole, so I can only reply in kind. What you're describing of Pakistanis being quick to jump to conclusion, impulsive, you yourself are portraying very well. Obviously as a Pakistani, I can only reply to you at the same mental level. :rolleyes:

Hint: Easy on the dashes (--). There are other punctuation marks in the English language as well.
 
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Slides,

You know what the power of radio and media is---then come see it in the u s of a if you are not already here.

Come see, how the media controls the nerves and the movement and reaction of the people here in the u s of a. You want to see brain washing en-masse---it is open the public.

Oh---I am sorry---you could see at home in pakistan as well---geo tv is a great example---how they turned everything against the Musharraf's govt----fascinating experience isn't it.
 
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