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Gen Tariq Khan, IG FC: We had to clear Afghan border village because NATO was MIA

Wow, you're such a genius that it took you only only 1 second to figure out after 9/11, that Al Qaeda was responsible and that Pakistani teenagers attitude is responsible for the entire world's mess.

What school must one go to come up with such amazing ability for deductive reasoning? You should join the CIA and go hunt for Iraqi WMDs.

All I see in your posts is hyperbole, so I can only reply in kind. What you're describing of Pakistanis being quick to jump to conclusion, impulsive, you yourself are portraying very well. Obviously as a Pakistani, I can only reply to you at the same mental level. :rolleyes:


Mastan Khan is a Think Tank member not Alu Chana member...
Why don't you step up and show your ability so you can be a think thank chairman as your posts suggest you are quite intelligent..
Be careful to choose the combination of words..

It was an advice...

No offence


:pakistan:
 
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Mastan Khan is a Think Tank member not Alu Chana member...
Why don't you step up and show your ability so you can be a think thank chairman as your posts suggest you are quite intelligent..
Be careful to choose the combination of words..

It was an advice...

No offence


:pakistan:

No offense taken, but what the the heck is a think tank member? It's just a title, and I'm not here to earn titles, unless this forum is run like a Pakistani political party, in which case who do I pay to get a title? I've been involved in discussions about Pakistan from before this and many other forums even existed. And I am still involved in another popular forum where I have been active on and off again since the mid 90s. And before forums, there was SCP and mailing lists.

I'm not new at this game and don't need titles.
 
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Slides,

You know what the power of radio and media is---then come see it in the u s of a if you are not already here.

Come see, how the media controls the nerves and the movement and reaction of the people here in the u s of a. You want to see brain washing en-masse---it is open the public.

Oh---I am sorry---you could see at home in pakistan as well---geo tv is a great example---how they turned everything against the Musharraf's govt----fascinating experience isn't it.
You missed the point. Popular perceptions have to built up in society and cannot be created in a vacuum. This same Geo if it existed in 1999 could have danced up and down against Musharraf's coup, but would have not mattered even one bit. Media's job is too latch onto a popular sentiment and make it ten times more popular, especially when prodded on by political elements.

Media, in more or less free societies cannot create it's own issue when society is thinking completely the opposite. Geo will only do what's good for it's bottom line.
 
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No offense taken, but what the the heck is a think tank member? It's just a title, and I'm not here to earn titles, unless this forum is run like a Pakistani political party, in which case who do I pay to get a title? I've been involved in discussions about Pakistan from before this and many other forums even existed. And I am still involved in another popular forum where I have been active on and off again since the mid 90s. And before forums, there was SCP and mailing lists.

I'm not new at this game and don't need titles.

I am not saying go on title...
If he is a Think Tank member than it means he has some "inside" knowledge or he is well informed....
You are entitled to your views
Mastan Khan is entitled to his views
BUT
We have to agree upon one thing..which is the right thing....

If Pakistani people including me were highly intellectuals than we would not suffer at first which we are since 1947...
There is a lack somewhere in people and because of that our country is suffering...
Don't blame everything on army or politicians...
We have to take some responsibility also…

:pakistan:
 
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Wow, you're such a genius that it took you only 1 second to figure out after 9/11, that Al Qaeda was responsible and that Pakistani teenagers attitude is responsible for the entire world's mess.

What school must one go to, in order to come up with such amazing ability for deductive reasoning? You should join the CIA and go hunt for Iraqi WMDs.

All I see in your posts is hyperbole, so I can only reply in kind. What you're describing of Pakistanis being quick to jump to conclusion, impulsive, you yourself are portraying very well. Obviously as a Pakistani, I can only reply to you at the same mental level. :rolleyes:

Hint: Easy on the dashes (--). There are other punctuation marks in the English language as well.



Slides,

Son---you are acting silly now---don't let the door hit you on the way.

I didnot want to be ethnocentric---but a very pakistani response---oh you saw it so soon wow---you must be something---why don't you work for cia---how so very silly and cheap.

I can refer you to my posts on this board since 2005---on pakdef-info before that---on pakistanidef dot com before that---it has been going on for years now my man---I haven't changed my position on what pak should have done with al qaeda after they slipped down the mountain slope---.
 
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I am not saying go on title...
If he is a Think Tank member than it means he has some "inside" knowledge or he is well informed....
You are entitled to your views
Mastan Khan is entitled to his views
BUT
We have to agree upon one thing..which is the right thing....

If Pakistani people including me were highly intellectuals than we would not suffer at first which we are since 1947...
There is a lack somewhere in people and because of that our country is suffering...
Don't blame everything on army or politicians...
We have to take some responsibility also…

:pakistan:

I don't know about this think thank business, and don't really care about it.

Your second point is what I'm saying to the arguments presented by MastanKhan and his buddy sonic. Pakistan is in the position it is in today because of bad decisions by leaders and a feudal based society that does not care for democratic ideals. It is NOT in the position today because every Pakistani is an intellectual midget and has a beow everage IQ like Mastan and sonic would have us believe.

The institutional problems in Pakistan are immense, but there are bright lights here and there and one of them is Gen Tariq Khan, IG FC. He is smarter and more coherent in his arguments than all of us on this thread combined. The failure to see this, is the failure to appreciate the good in Pakistan while criticizing the bad when it's truly needed. And this thread is the last place where anyone should be lashing out at the tremendous job our forces are doing right now, and that too by wishing Allah ka azaab on our people and brave soldiers. Shame on us such pathetic people.

We all should know the consequence of bud duas on others.
 
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Slides,

Son---you are acting silly now---don't let the door hit you on the way.

I didnot want to be ethnocentric---but a very pakistani response---oh you saw it so soon wow---you must be something---why don't you work for cia---how so very silly and cheap.

I can refer you to my posts on this board since 2005---on pakdef-info before that---on pakistanidef dot com before that---it has been going on for years now my man---I haven't changed my position on what pak should have done with al qaeda after they slipped down the mountain slope---.

I haven't changed my position on what pak should have done with al qaeda after they slipped down the mountain slope

Sir can you explain more...

Thanks


:pakistan:
 
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Slides,

Son---you are acting silly now---don't let the door hit you on the way.

I didnot want to be ethnocentric---but a very pakistani response---oh you saw it so soon wow---you must be something---why don't you work for cia---how so very silly and cheap.

I can refer you to my posts on this board since 2005---on pakdef-info before that---on pakistanidef dot com before that---it has been going on for years now my man---I haven't changed my position on what pak should have done with al qaeda after they slipped down the mountain slope---.
Why go back only to 2005? Why didn't you wake up in 1995 or even 1999 or 2001? What difference does it make? You either accept Pakistan it's good and bad, crtiizie the wrong, appreciate the right, or you start calling yourself some other nationality if you hate everything about being Pakistani.

And you're not being ethnocentric, since being Pakistani is not an ethnicity to being with. You're just being hard headed and are unwilling to offer any arguments worth debating.

So I am done debating in circles. This was meant to be a thread discussing the interview of Gen Tariq like a normal human being, before you and your pal came and bought Allah's azaab onto every Pakistani. Shameful and unforgivable.
 
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I don't know about this think thank business, and don't really care about it.

Your second point is what I'm saying to the arguments presented by MastanKhan and his buddy sonic. Pakistan is in the position it is in today because of bad decisions by leaders and a feudal based society that does not care for democratic ideals. It is NOT in the position today because every Pakistani is an intellectual midget and has a beow everage IQ like Mastan and sonic would have us believe.

The institutional problems in Pakistan are immense, but there are bright lights here and there and one of them is Gen Tariq Khan, IG FC. He is smarter and more coherent in his arguments than all of us on this thread combined. The failure to see this, is the failure to appreciate the good in Pakistan while criticizing the bad when it's truly needed. And this thread is the last place where anyone should be lashing out at the tremendous job our forces are doing right now, and that too by wishing Allah ka azaab on our people and brave soldiers. Shame on us such pathetic people.

We all should know the consequence of bud duas on others.


Ohh bhai...it was not a bad dua...
He just stated what is going on...
Well I could argue about Mastan Khan’s position that we have low IQ but on the other hand we do have a low IQ if we look around our society and the role we played...
If we had a good IQ than Pakistan would be in a better place....
Pakistan is in the mess because of leaders....AGREED....
But what did Pakistanis do to stop the leaders?
Did we protest?
Not talking about protests of political parties....
Talk about general public..
Did you protest your leader's decision?

Did you ever run for an election as you are posting on forums since 1990's
:pakistan:
 
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I haven't changed my position on what pak should have done with al qaeda after they slipped down the mountain slope

Sir can you explain more...

Thanks


:pakistan:
He wanted Pak to go guns blazing right after 9/11 into FATA by rejecting all previous accords with the tribes unilaterally, which would have 100% guaranteed civil war right then and there.
 
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Ohh bhai...it was not a bad dua...
He just stated what is going on...
Well I could argue about Mastan Khan’s position that we have low IQ but on the other hand we do have a low IQ if we look around our society and the role we played...
If we had a good IQ than Pakistan would be in a better place....
Pakistan is in the mess because of leaders....AGREED....
But what did Pakistanis do to stop the leaders?
Did we protest?
Not talking about protests of political parties....
Talk about general public..
Did you protest your leader's decision?


:pakistan:
Such a low IQ, that we managed to create a viable nuclear program against all odds. Such a low IQ that we drove out TTP from Swat in one of the most treacherous and guerrilla friendly terrains in the world with very limited resources. It's not a matter of IQ. It's a matter of feudal culture and mentality and the "chalta hai" attitude. No IQ test devised can probably measure this correctly right now.

Wishing azaab on Pakistan and saying that one can't wait to see the "end" is what then? Is it a good dua?
 
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Such a low IQ, that we managed to create a viable nuclear program against all odds. Such a low IQ that we drove out TTP from Swat in one of the most treacherous and guerrilla friendly terrains in the world with very limited resources. It's not a matter of IQ. It's a matter of feudal culture and mentality and the "chalta hai" attitude. No IQ test devised can probably measure this correctly right now.

Wishing azaab on Pakistan and saying that one can't wait to see the "end" is what then? Is it a good dua?



I read the posts and I do not think that someone said Pakistan will finish.....We are not talking about the abilities of Pakistani people in field....I mean I am not talking about it....The lower IQ from my side means not to stand when bad decisions are made by politicians/army...
You have to acknowledge Slide that there are loyal people in Pakistan Army and in political "world" also....
You are right about Feudal culture but see if people did not follow that culture than there was no reason for it to exist...People appreciate so it exists or people do not want to raise their concerns...

How many politicians/general are in Pakistan and how many Pakistanis live there?
Who has the upper hand in terms of population…


:pakistan:
 
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Slide

You are a nice guy....
Just be careful about the words you use..
If you want to explain us than you can use better words...

Just an advice

Respect others…


:pakistan:
 
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I haven't changed my position on what pak should have done with al qaeda after they slipped down the mountain slope

Sir can you explain more...

Thanks


:pakistan:


Hi,

At that time, Al qaeda was the wind of death, in the land that it passed through, it left dead bodies in its wake---it was the black plague of its time---every thing that al qaeda touched, it was destroyed. They had no compassion and no love for anyone. They brought death and destruction to everyone who gave them a sanctuary---was it in sudan---somalia, afghanistan or pakistan---one after the other. They were the outcasts of every nation.

The sudanese---they saw the light---they are muslims too---they also support the idea of giving refuge to one who asks---but to them, nation came first and foremost. So when the u s threatend to bomb them---they openly stated to hand over OBL to the u s---when the u s didnot accept---they expelled him out of sudan---. Sudan---yemen---saudi arabia---they are all brothers---first cousins---where does afg come into the picture---.

I have always and forcefully stated that the afg govt of mullah Omar and pak govt should have made everything possible to stop the invasion of christian armies into the muslim lands of afg, at all cost---even if that cost was the execution of OBL and his troika and the rest the cohorts.

The taliban wanted to get into the intricacies of proof---give us the proof ---. They should have had the vision to avail the oppurtunity to build afghanistan on the skeletons of al qaeda---.

Allah---our Lord the merciful and benvolent gives in mysterious and strange ways---and HE The Almighty says so as well---Allah gave the taliban the oppurtunity to make a nation for themselves---they could have sold the murderer of 3000 people to america and in return taken the resources to build the nation of afg---.

What is the death of 50 odd al qaeda fighters and their leaders in comparison to the death of 250000 plus afghans killed since the war starting in 2002---the land of the muslims occupied by christian armies---who at one time had a lots opf NGO's teaching christianity---.

You have to ask youself---what is the worth and welfare of a free nation----if you asked the muhajirs at the time of 1947----they would have said---everything and anything---me---my life---the life of my family---my property--my job---everything and anything just to be free of the shackles.

The taliban chose to be conquered again and put in shackles---and the paks took it upon themselves not to pursue the al qaeda at the slopes of the mountains on the other side of tora bora.

It is analyzed that OBL and his cohorts were done at tora bora---he had already read his last rites---our forces just let them get away. Let them escape so easily, without realizing what the consequences would be.

In one instance---FC jawan capture around 30 al qaeda operatives coming down the mountains---they want to shackle and secure the prisoners---the officer incharge states---these are our muslim brother---let them be---they are being put in the bus---when they turn around at an oppurtune moment and grab the rifles of the FC men and shoot and kill ten or twelve of them and escape into the mountain armed---this was in the news and the officers admittance of his error as well---on the dead bodies of FC jawans---.

These people should have been executed right then and there---no questions asked---pakistan was not a free for all nation.

Then Musharraf stated in one of his speehces---al qaeda men holed up in a house---soldiers are telling the major to blow up the house---the major states that no---these are our brother--I will go and talk to them to lay down their arms---he goes in with five soldiers---all are slaughtered.

Coming back---pak army at that time was playing games with the u s media---whenever any u s dignitary came into pakistan---pak army would show the arrest of an al qaeda head honcho---it became so predictable that it was embarrassing to watch.

Al qaeda is like a cancerous growth---if you didnot stop it in time---the growth will increase multifolds and that will do major damage to the system. And it did happen---all the world was telling pakistan what was coming---the only person who didnot hear it was the pakistani.

They had to face and exoperience the taste of death and destruction of their loved ones first hand---a perverse pleasure of kinds.

Pakistan army thought that they would capture OBL just like that---the problem is that the ispr were on the television all the time, telling the way the terrorists were being captured---they would talk about the technology the pak army was using to trace them---it was all in the open to show the western world that we were capable---well that is fine and good---but the al qaeda brass was also listening.

At that time, the govt could have controlled the release of sttrategic and tactical information to be broadcast by the media---but nobody cared---for them it was like a new found game---a new found toy---that he tv was---a pakistani form of CNN---let us show the world that pakistanis can do it CNN style---well they missed it---CNN doesnot intentionally release tactical and strategic information or any information that could be harmful to the u s soldiers---our media cared less.

So---look at what we have to confront today---we have india on one side of our borders---we have indian navy covering our seas---we have iran, which is unhappy with us and has given raodways to india to access afghanistan---then we are looking at troops of indian army being based in afghanistan---we have a string of indian consulates running stationed parrallel to our borders with afg---then we have a supposed indian air force base right next to afghanistan.

And that is only in the past 7 years time period----. From the most favourable to the most despised---it took us only 4 years---now who is to be blamed for that---the genarals were in power along with Ch Shujaat and his entourage---it is all like an open book---laying flat in front of us.
 
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