First glimpse into jf-17 block 3?

[graphican]

I hope it is true

What other options does PAF haas unless a new fighter is procured? There are F-16s and JF-17. If Pakistan-India war breaks out within 12-24 months, India will have Rafael at their disposal and on Pakistan side... ? If JF-17 is not ready to confront Rafaels than what.. ? What's the plan? PAF will need to wait many years before 5th Generation fighter profram is matured.

Somewhere we heard Pakistan had placed an order of 36 fighters. It smelled like a rumour but was it only that?

 

[Maarkhoor]

Somewhere we heard Pakistan had placed an order of 36 fighters. It smelled like a rumour but was it only that?

As per my Chinese friend China offered JH-7 TOT and waiting for PAF response.
@Windjammer @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

 

[NA71]

Not so far away. Just be patient.

IMO, PAF wants JF-17 Block III to be the answer to India's Rafale, but a high cost-effective fighter at the same time.
It is a big challenge to PAF and CAC.

Theoretically, near to impossible. Rafale is in the lead after F22/F35.

Only near competitor is Typhoon OR SU35...

 

[Maarkhoor]

Rafale is in the lead after F22/F35.

Joo munn mien aya bakk diya........

 

[NA71]

Joo munn mien aya bakk diya........

behave.....

https://interestingengineering.com/7-of-the-deadliest-fighter-jets-still-in-active-service.

https://naijaquest.com/best-fighter-jets-in-the-world/

 

[Maarkhoor]

behave.....

https://interestingengineering.com/7-of-the-deadliest-fighter-jets-still-in-active-service.

https://naijaquest.com/best-fighter-jets-in-the-world/

Grow up and analyze your claim once more.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Theoretically, near to impossible. Rafale is in the lead after F22/F35.

Only near competitor is Typhoon OR SU35...

Joined on may 27, 2009 but less then a thousand posts

 

[NA71]

Grow up and analyze your claim once more.

Look at your post...you need to grow up properly .....you could disagree with other's post but keep control on your behavior...

 

[Maarkhoor]

Look at your post...you need to grow up properly .....you could disagree with other's post but keep control on your behavior...

You are putting rafale jet into the league of F-22 and F-35 you must be defense expert but from the league of Raj forty seven.

 

[Ali_Baba]

The Rafale is an impressive plane, and one that should not be discounted, in particular its EW capabilities.

Pakistans deterrence does not rest in having a plane that is "better" than the Rafale, it is in her ability to strike into India and defeat the narrative of India being a super power and the region being its "back yard" etc. It is the ability to hit Indian pride, that is the core of deterrence. What stops and scares India is the counter strike. PAF strikes in Feb 2019 stopped India in her tracks, as it was very difficult for India to explain to her population that a country 1/8th their size managed to come into airspace protected by the IAF and bust up the place, and return with no consequences. It will be a long time, before any Indian PM will be confident enough to risk that. The proliferation of cruise missiles makes it more difficult for India to hold the narrative of her own perception of herself. Imagine, long range cruise missiles hitting New Delhi in a counter strike. India simply didnot expect PAF to strike back in Feb 2019, and expected to hold the narrative, escalation ladder and initiative. They lost that..

No matter how good the Rafale is, going into contested airspace against SAMs, ground based radars and AEWCs is going to be a tall ask. The aircraft is not invulnerable and can be countered. There may even be losses for the PAF in contesting airspace occupied by the Rafale, but it wont be a 1 way street. The PL15 and to some extent the AMRAAMs will see to that. That is the deterrence.

Block III with an AESA radar, and PL15 will pose a serious threat to the IAF. It may not win on the "specifications war" against the Raflae but that is not how combat operates anyway. The Block III will be good enough to take on everything India has in her arsenal as of now, and beat it. Rafale is a challenge, and we may need Block IV as a response.

The Su30MKI is a brilliant plane, and very capable. But, poor deployment and tactics by the IAF caused it to be shot down in Feb 2019.

IAF tactics, and operational deployment skills and abilities will NOT change with the arrival of the Rafale. It is questionable if they will be able to get the best out of the platform they are procuring. They have always struggled in this regard.

 

[NA71]

You are putting rafale jet into the league of F-22 and F-35 you must be defense expert but from the league of Raj forty seven.

i wrote "after"...could be wrong too ....and I am no expert..just and an Def. enthusiast... Air force Fan

The Rafale is an impressive plane, and one that should not be discounted, in particular its EW capabilities.

Pakistans deterrence does not rest in having a plane that is "better" than the Rafale, it is in her ability to strike into India and defeat the narrative of India being a super power and the region being its "back yard" etc. It is the ability to hit Indian pride, that is the core of deterrence. PAF strikes in Feb 2019 has stopped India in her tracks, as it is very difficult for India to explain to her population that a country 1/8th their size managed to come into airspace protected by the IAF and bust up the place, and return with no consequences. It will be a long time, before any Indian PM will be confident enough to risk that. The proliferation of cruise missiles makes it more difficult for India to hold the narrative of her own perception of herself. Imagine, long range cruise missiles hitting New Delhi in a counter strike. India simply didnot expect PAF to strike back in Feb 2019, and expected to hold the narrative, escalation ladder and initiative. They lost that..

No matter how good the Rafale is, going into contested airspace against SAMs, ground based radars and AEWCs is going to be a tall ask. The aircraft is not invulnerable and can be countered. There may be more losses in PAF contesting airspace occupied by the Rafale, but it wont be a 1 way street. That is the deterrence.

Block III with an AESA radar, and PL15 will pose a serious threat to the IAF. It may not win on the "specifications war" against the Raflae but that is not how combat operates anyway. The Block III will be good enough to take on everything India has in her arsenal as of now, and beat it. Rafale is a challenge, and we may need Block IV as a response.

The Su30MKI is a brilliant plane, and very capable. But, poor deployment and tactics by the IAF caused it to be shot down in Feb 2019.

IAF tactics, and operational deployment skills and abilities will NOT change with the arrival of the Rafale. It is questionable if they will be able to get the best out of the platform they are procuring. They have always struggled in this regard.

Salute@Ali_Baba ...this is the other way of disagreeing my post.....

 

[Armchair]

Theoretically, near to impossible. Rafale is in the lead after F22/F35.

Only near competitor is Typhoon OR SU35...

Whether we like it or not, this is the truth. The JFT can never be an answer to the Rafale if we are honest.

There is a serious need for a new platform. PAF F-16 mafia is crying for more F-16s not understanding the geopolitics. That the F-16s can never again come to Pak.
Now, should we wait for disaster just because these folks are mentally stuck on the F-16?

The Rafale is an impressive plane, and one that should not be discounted, in particular its EW capabilities.

Pakistans deterrence does not rest in having a plane that is "better" than the Rafale, it is in her ability to strike into India and defeat the narrative of India being a super power and the region being its "back yard" etc. It is the ability to hit Indian pride, that is the core of deterrence. What stops and scares India is the counter strike. PAF strikes in Feb 2019 stopped India in her tracks, as it was very difficult for India to explain to her population that a country 1/8th their size managed to come into airspace protected by the IAF and bust up the place, and return with no consequences. It will be a long time, before any Indian PM will be confident enough to risk that. The proliferation of cruise missiles makes it more difficult for India to hold the narrative of her own perception of herself. Imagine, long range cruise missiles hitting New Delhi in a counter strike. India simply didnot expect PAF to strike back in Feb 2019, and expected to hold the narrative, escalation ladder and initiative. They lost that..

No matter how good the Rafale is, going into contested airspace against SAMs, ground based radars and AEWCs is going to be a tall ask. The aircraft is not invulnerable and can be countered. There may even be losses for the PAF in contesting airspace occupied by the Rafale, but it wont be a 1 way street. The PL15 and to some extent the AMRAAMs will see to that. That is the deterrence.

Block III with an AESA radar, and PL15 will pose a serious threat to the IAF. It may not win on the "specifications war" against the Raflae but that is not how combat operates anyway. The Block III will be good enough to take on everything India has in her arsenal as of now, and beat it. Rafale is a challenge, and we may need Block IV as a response.

The Su30MKI is a brilliant plane, and very capable. But, poor deployment and tactics by the IAF caused it to be shot down in Feb 2019.

IAF tactics, and operational deployment skills and abilities will NOT change with the arrival of the Rafale. It is questionable if they will be able to get the best out of the platform they are procuring. They have always struggled in this regard.

In war, we never count on the enemy screwing up. We should assume our enemy will act with reasonable effectiveness and efficiency. Anything else is a bonus.
There is no way that the JF-17 can ever meet the kinematic performance and aerodynamics of the Rafale. It's simply not designed for that. No matter how many blocks you come up with.

 

[CriticalThought]

Whether we like it or not, this is the truth. The JFT can never be an answer to the Rafale if we are honest.

There is a serious need for a new platform. PAF F-16 mafia is crying for more F-16s not understanding the geopolitics. That the F-16s can never again come to Pak.
Now, should we wait for disaster just because these folks are mentally stuck on the F-16?



In war, we never count on the enemy screwing up. We should assume our enemy will act with reasonable effectiveness and efficiency. Anything else is a bonus.
There is no way that the JF-17 can ever meet the kinematic performance and aerodynamics of the Rafale. It's simply not designed for that. No matter how many blocks you come up with.

It is incorrect to say that JFT can never come to par against Rafale. The main limitation is the engine spool time. So even if we uprate the engine beyond 98KN in terms of raw power, it will still lose out when transitioning from slow to high speed. In terms of aerodynamics, Thunder follows the same world beating pattern of F-16 with cropped delta wings, low profile canopy, streamlined body, and HUD+MFDs. It actually beats the viper in nose design, but loses out on relaxed stability in the longitudinal axis. Its intakes are simpler and have lower chances of FOD accidents.

With the right engine, Thunder will become the king of fast and furious close combat faceoffs, especially when it hunts in packs because slow TVC enabled gymnastics mean death in a furball. Of course HMDS and HOBS already make that dangerous. An uprated engine can also supply enough power for electronics, plus, a backing AEWACS will give it the edge. In short, you are completely wrong in writing off Thunder against the Rafale.

 

[NA71]

Whether we like it or not, this is the truth. The JFT can never be an answer to the Rafale if we are honest.

There is a serious need for a new platform. PAF F-16 mafia is crying for more F-16s not understanding the geopolitics. That the F-16s can never again come to Pak.
Now, should we wait for disaster just because these folks are mentally stuck on the F-16?



In war, we never count on the enemy screwing up. We should assume our enemy will act with reasonable effectiveness and efficiency. Anything else is a bonus.
There is no way that the JF-17 can ever meet the kinematic performance and aerodynamics of the Rafale. It's simply not designed for that. No matter how many blocks you come up with.

Chinese Dy. President is on official visit here in Pakistan.....rumors are J-10C is again on agenda list....may be on lease or deferred payment terms. lets see.

 

[Armchair]

Chinese Dy. President is on official visit here in Pakistan.....rumors are J-10C is again on agenda list....may be on lease or deferred payment terms. lets see.

Interesting. My only concern is deferred payment is still payment. At 60+ million dollars per piece, and that AL-31 headache of an engine to deal with, its quite an unattractive option.

A sinofied MiG-35 not only has common engines with the JFT but comes at a fraction of the price (about 35 million). Add to that - its the weight class of Project Azm meaning if you build parts for it like the landing gear, etc, you could use the same in Project Azm and save money and logistics footprint.

Since it is widely assumed that Project Azm will be a twin RD-33 aircraft, why not take a half-step with the MiG-35 and build parts that can be used in Azm, rather than get into the dead end called the J-10C and the AL-31?