FC-20 needs a partner!

[Myth_buster_1]

for your kind, knowledge! dear sir!
follow this,thread & that was answerd by a great voice! NEO!
Pakistan has been offered the Chinese 4th generation J-11 (SU27)

from NEO
Sir,

J-11B is being evaluated for induction beyond 2012 and yes there's a need for long range MRCA as part of PAF's two phase modernisation strategy.

The first phase included replacement of older and obsolete fleet of F-6/F-7/AQ-5 and Mirages with JF-17 and F-16 and strengthening airdefence.

Second phase is about expanding the fleet and her offensive capabilities inwhich FC-20 and J-11B will play greater role than the JF-17, again we're looking into 2012-2014, 4-6 years from now, as possible window to induct these heavy platforms with comonality in avionics and weaponsuit.

The report is true.
SO, PLZ TAKE YOUR TIME BEFORE , being a genius!

Their was one point where every single member from defence.pk had his fanboy moment (including me). 2012-2014 is not even the time frame for the induction of FC-20 so i dont know how he came up with conclusion that J-11 is in process of being inducted when no PAF official had mentioned anything like it in media.

 

[Sapper]

And how is the MKI is license built from the MKK ??????? lol please get your info straight.

Sorry for writing MKK, i meant to say that MKI is license built from MK (not MKK). I apologize for the typo.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

seriously, you need to check , your eyes man!
that repot was from , JANEs DEFENCE WEEKLY!
YOU dont, think its serious, thn i think ! you must be joking!
OH, sory you mean, a PAF officers logbook! right

Batman, you are only being a typical out of control fanboy.
Now you are telling me the report is from jane's defence weekly? Kindly show me the link from jane's weekly where it supports your fanboy claim that PAF has evaluated J-11 and in process of inducting them. And how could other jane's weekly type of news sources missed such a important news?
I have came up with the conclusion that Moin shahib plagiarized and presented his report out of context. The Jane's source that he put up most probably only and only supports F-16 related comment. Such type of horribly compiled piece of BS makes no where near credible news and end up in gutter.

 

[Sapper]

1) cost - Chinese aircrafts are way cheaper than western aircrafts and pakistan can only afford, yes diversity is very good, you dont have to tell me that, but for pakistan maintaining 2 to 3 4.5 generation aircrafts will be a tough task. Maintaining a Rafale or an Eurofighter cost way more than any Chinese jet.

Agreed, but thats not the ONLY reason. Pakistan also operates mirages because spares of Mirages and Russian/Chinese aircrafts are very reasily available as compared to British-American aircrafts.

2) Availability - Pakistan has access to F-16's in limited quantity and of inferior quality, and it also has access to European jets but again they are too expensive. The Indian mrca deal is a highlight to the world that india now has access to Western tech without any strings attached. USA has offered the most advanced version of the F-16 to india not Pakistan and that itself shows where both countries stand today in the world.

When Pakistan got F16s in 1982, there were no strings attached whatsoever. Same is the case with India, no strings attached NOW.
It was not until Pakistan went against American interest and got sanctions imposed. India has already fought a small bout against sanctions when it got a few sanctions imposed against it post 1998 Nuclear Tests.

Are you 100% confident that if (Hypothetically) India tested another Nuclear bomb, it will not be struck with sanctions once again. In that scenario, you might end up losing your MRCA's money just like we did.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

2) Availability - Pakistan has access to F-16's in limited quantity and of inferior quality, and it also has access to European jets but again they are too expensive. The Indian mrca deal is a highlight to the world that india now has access to Western tech without any strings attached. USA has offered the most advanced version of the F-16 to india not Pakistan and that itself shows where both countries stand today in the world.

WTF are you talking about desi dog? PAF has access to as many F-16s they want as long as we have the money. Secondly, F-16 MLU M3 and Block52 Plus is no inferior technology by any means. Technical parity would be IAF MK2 and Mig-29 fleet and once all three platforms are upgraded PAF F-16 will as good if not better then IAF 4th generation fleet. Like PAF ACM had made it crystal clear, PAF will not induct F-16s if it comes with any strings attached or any restriction of being used against any country. Things have been sorted out which you need to clear it out from your head.

The same applied to the j-10,11 or w.e. Just because the Chinese call it a "4.5" generation aircraft, it just does not become one before it is evaluated by other sources. I respect your opinion and it makes sense many ways, but again just like with the jf-17, there are way too many fanboys of the j-10, fc-20 and j-11 here who do not take any other info in mind before they say anything. And how is the MKI is license built from the MKK ??????? lol please get your info straight.

J-10A
J-11A
are by no means technically a as good as western 4.5 generation MRCA. In pak def members usually refer J-10 to Pakistani version of J-10B designated as FC-20 which will have western systems and even a AESA radar which will give it technical parity to IAF MKI. But no one beats the fanboys of LCA. Only after 1st and 2nd tranches will LCA be capable enough worthy enough to be considered as 4.5 generation MRCA and they already compering it to EF Rafale and dont even bother to compare it to Gripen which they claim it to be better then. For god sake, the first 40-80 LCA wont even have AESA radar good weight to trust ratio engine and other advance avionics to be even considered a 4.5 generation fighter.
PAF is already evaluated AESA radars from west and other advance avionics EW suites for next batch of JF-17s.

 

[batmannow]

Batman, you are only being a typical out of control fanboy.
Now you are telling me the report is from jane's defence weekly? Kindly show me the link from jane's weekly where it supports your fanboy claim that PAF has evaluated J-11 and in process of inducting them. And how could other jane's weekly type of news sources missed such a important news?
I have came up with the conclusion that Moin shahib plagiarized and presented his report out of context. The Jane's source that he put up most probably only and only supports F-16 related comment. Such type of horribly compiled piece of BS makes no where near credible news and end up in gutter.

PLZ & KINDLY! check the link in that , thread! its so simple! SIR.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Chinese platform (J-10B) with western systems = FC-20 PAF designation for J-10B.

the next 50 batch is way different then FC-1.

Western system in J-10. Source Please
I am talking about the name of fighter...Still it will be known as FC-1 in China.

 

[safikhanniazi]

i agree righteous inshallah PAF fulfill the gap but it take's time
i am sure

yes

it take time but why we are alwys late ?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Western system in J-10. Source Please
I am talking about the name of fighter...Still it will be known as FC-1 in China.

You have to understand and learn the topic before you enter into a discussion.
Go through J-10/FC-20 thread in aviation section.

 

[PakShaheen79]

You have to understand and learn the topic before you enter into a discussion.
Go through J-10/FC-20 thread in aviation section.

I exactly know what i am saying. Next i acted on your advice and went through J-10 threat. No European radar was even offer... Russian and Israeli radars were mentioned there with J-10 but those were all non official sources. Even if Russian and Israeli offered their advanced PD radar for J-10 Chinese did use their own PD radar in initial batches and from 2007 it is using Chinese AESA.

Chinese Deploy Superior Avionics | NowPublic News Coverage
J-10 B

The 01/1031 prototype of the new J-10B was unveiled in March 2009, 3 months after its maiden flight in December 2008. This much improved variant features a DSI/bump engine inlet which not only cuts weight but also reduces RCS, after a similar design was first tested onboard FC-1/JF-17. The aircraft also features a J-11B style IRST/LR and a wide-angle holographic HUD. IRST enables passive detection of enemy aircraft, making J-10B more stealthy in combat. Its nose appears flatter too, similar to that of American F-16, and fire-control radar is thought to be an X-band AESA developed by the 607 Institute, the first of such type ever being developed for a Chinese fighter aircraft, giving J-10B a stronger multi-target engagement and ECCM capability. Two large ECM pods are attached under the wings. The tip of vertical tailfin was redesigned as well, featuring a large fairing containing communication and ECM antennas, which resembles that of French Mirage 2000. A rear facing MAWS sensor can be seen underneath the parachute boom. A similar system was tested onboard FC-1/JF-17 as well. All these improvements suggest that J-10B is equipped with a new generation of integrated electronic system, ranging from radar to EW system. The aircraft thus serves likely as a testbed for various advanced avionics onboard the 4th generation J-14 (see below). Its mission may be changed from air-superiority to multi-purpose, such as AG or EW. In addition, the aircarft is expected to be powered eventually by an indigenous WS-10A turbofan. Overall J-10B is thought to be comparable to American F-16E/Block 60.

Chinese Military Aviation

 

[pakpower]

I think in Euro fighter or Rafale would be a great choice but the problem comes to funds which is the biggest problem since Pakistan came into existance on 1947. but this can be sorted out with good stratigies and and kool mind also with good foreign policy helps a lot.

Increasing the ratio of exporting our products to other countries as comparison to importing from other countries. But still I love to see Rafale or EF in PAF kaya karoon yehh dill maangae more.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I exactly know what i am saying. Next i acted on your advice and went through J-10 threat. No European radar was even offer... Russian and Israeli radars were mentioned there with J-10 but those were all non official sources. Even if Russian and Israeli offered their advanced PD radar for J-10 Chinese did use their own PD radar in initial batches and from 2007 it is using Chinese AESA.

Chinese Deploy Superior Avionics | NowPublic News Coverage
J-10 B



Chinese Military Aviation

Nope. you did not go through 100 pages let alone more then 10. You will get your answer if you skim along those pages or even watch videos of PAF officials commenting on FC-20 project.
As for the article you have posted. the information is merely about J-10B a Chinese version not the PAF version of J-10B designated as FC-20 with western systems.
I do not know why are you dragging this worthless argument. thats how we learn from each other.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Nope. you did not go through 100 pages let alone more then 10. You will get your answer if you skim along those pages or even watch videos of PAF officials commenting on FC-20 project.
As for the article you have posted. the information is merely about J-10B a Chinese version not the PAF version of J-10B designated as FC-20 with western systems.
I do not know why are you dragging this worthless argument. thats how we learn from each other.

"you did not go through 10 pages let alone 100".. I think this is what you wanted to say above. If so let me tell you J-10 threat has just 45 pages not 100.

Next, article is not about J-10B only. First link i provided is of 2007 when there was no J-10B and it says that J-10A are flying with an AESA since 2007 and J-10B will have same. So it means that there is a AESA for J-10 since two years minimum and till 2014 it will get quite mature.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Next, article is not about J-10B only. First link i provided is of 2007 when there was no J-10B and it says that J-10A are flying with an AESA since 2007 and J-10B will have same. So it means that there is a AESA for J-10 since two years minimum and till 2014 it will get quite mature.

how about PM any 2-3 TT members and ask them if FC-20 is going to receive Chinese AESA for 100% sure like you are emphasizing or is PAF looking for a alternative perhaps a more advance capable western AESA. Or Find me any PAF official statement that supports your claim.

ACM T Mahmood gave an interview recently to AFM and was published in Sep 08 issue.
FC-20 order should be confirmed in next 12 months or so, whilst final configuration is worked out. Current J-10 technology is not upto PAF requirements and as the platform natures, PAF hopes to include western equipment in the J-10, thereby signifying a different version from PLAAF J-10, which will be known as FC-20 in PAF service. FC-20 will not be required to have any conformal fuel tanks, as it has sufficient internal fuel capacity as well as AAR by Il-78 Midas tankers. Although AESA radar would be nice to have, there is no confirmation if this will be made available to PAF. (persumably refers to non-Chinese suppliers willingness to supply)

 

[PakShaheen79]

how about PM any 2-3 TT members and ask them if FC-20 is going to receive Chinese AESA for 100% sure like you are emphasizing or is PAF looking for a alternative perhaps a more advance capable western AESA. Or Find me any PAF official statement that supports your claim.

Did you see word FC-20 in my post? I think No. Only thing i am trying to say is China has develop and deploy AESA on board J-10A and J-10B which many thinks will be FC-20 for PAF will also have same or better one. What all this issue has to do with TT members? Sources are same for such information.

Next you post this news item I don't know from where but Thanks anyhow as it will make my work easier... Know just look at parts I highlighted.

ACM T Mahmood gave an interview recently to AFM and was published in Sep 08 issue.
FC-20 order should be confirmed in next 12 months or so, whilst final configuration is worked out. Current J-10 technology is not upto PAF requirements and as the platform natures, PAF hopes to include western equipment in the J-10, thereby signifying a different version from PLAAF J-10, which will be known as FC-20 in PAF service. FC-20 will not be required to have any conformal fuel tanks, as it has sufficient internal fuel capacity as well as AAR by Il-78 Midas tankers. Although AESA radar would be nice to have, there is no confirmation if this will be made available to PAF. (persumably refers to non-Chinese suppliers willingness to supply)

How come Final configuration has been worked out without 100% grantee of getting an AESA?

Only possibility is PAF has finalized its requirements about FC-20. It still don't have a clue where these requirements will be met from.
Last line of your source clearly saying it all... Only way FC-20 can get AESA from West is if suppliers (Read Western governments) are willing to sell otherwise it will all come back to Chinese AESA. (common sense).

As you don't provided any link but still this is all what PAF was thinking back in 2008. What about Chinese side?? Are they willing to let this happen?