FC-20 needs a partner!

[Myth_buster_1]

can someone enlighten me for a few confusions plz:
1) why FC20s need a partner?
2) how these partners are going to cooperate eachother (a lead and a wing)?

before the financial and political issues, only after these 2 questions being answered can we go on to choose FC20s' partner, right.

I think i chose a wrong tittle. All i ment to say that FC-20 can not cope 400+ IAF superior 4.5 generation MRCA on its own so we need another high tech MRCA like Rafale or EF in limited numbers perhaps 12-18 in near future possibly before 2016. The reason why PAF was able to utilize its F-86s which were technically inferior to IAF Gnat Hunters in 65 war because it had backing of superior fighter the F-104 and that too was acquired in limited numbers. Star fighters was a terror in the sky!

 

[batmannow]

Dear batmannow

The problem here is that you are way too much deluded and cant think beyond this narrow tunnel with blind patriotism for China. I am not against alliance with China but cant stand these fanboyish claims that Pak-China has a special friendship that no other country has and China is willing to sacrifice for us.
Rafale, EF-2000, Gripen were all evaluated by PAF so before you make a claim out of this thin air kindly provide me a reliable source that backs up J-11B has been evaluated by us and the option to acquire them is well on the cards. Let me also enlighten you that Europe will eventually not bother upgrading our Chinese platforms with their latest technology for us. This would very much effect their own defence industry export market as their own platform wont see much buyers. What India does is that they buy Western platform with their systems TOT and ingeniously assemble them at home, Arjun =LEO II variant Dhurv=Bk-117 is a prime example. Pakistan cant take just about any non western platform and ask west to upgrade with latest technology... thats just not going to happen.
Thats why I say if we drop FC-20 fallow on orders and allocate that money and divert those funds for a high tech western MRCA like the Rafale which will be by far technically superior to Super hornet and MKI.
Also another thing I do not hate China neither i personally have anything against it but if their is too much fanboy talk about FC-20 being technically par with Rafale EF or gripen then i am not going to tolerate that rubbish. Atleast i am not as cheap as indians who only look at satisfying their ego even if it takes to lie, they are pathological liars and i am not.

for your kind, knowledge! dear sir!
follow this,thread & that was answerd by a great voice! NEO!
Pakistan has been offered the Chinese 4th generation J-11 (SU27)

from NEO
Sir,

J-11B is being evaluated for induction beyond 2012 and yes there's a need for long range MRCA as part of PAF's two phase modernisation strategy.

The first phase included replacement of older and obsolete fleet of F-6/F-7/AQ-5 and Mirages with JF-17 and F-16 and strengthening airdefence.

Second phase is about expanding the fleet and her offensive capabilities inwhich FC-20 and J-11B will play greater role than the JF-17, again we're looking into 2012-2014, 4-6 years from now, as possible window to induct these heavy platforms with comonality in avionics and weaponsuit.

The report is true.
SO, PLZ TAKE YOUR TIME BEFORE , being a genius!

 

[blueoval79]

Dear batmannow

The problem here is that you are way too much deluded and cant think beyond this narrow tunnel with blind patriotism for China. I am not against alliance with China but cant stand these fanboyish claims that Pak-China has a special friendship that no other country has and China is willing to sacrifice for us.
Rafale, EF-2000, Gripen were all evaluated by PAF so before you make a claim out of this thin air kindly provide me a reliable source that backs up J-11B has been evaluated by us and the option to acquire them is well on the cards. Let me also enlighten you that Europe will eventually not bother upgrading our Chinese platforms with their latest technology for us. This would very much effect their own defence industry export market as their own platform wont see much buyers. What India does is that they buy Western platform with their systems TOT and ingeniously assemble them at home, Arjun =LEO II variant Dhurv=Bk-117 is a prime example. Pakistan cant take just about any non western platform and ask west to upgrade with latest technology... thats just not going to happen.
Thats why I say if we drop FC-20 fallow on orders and allocate that money and divert those funds for a high tech western MRCA like the Rafale which will be by far technically superior to Super hornet and MKI.
Also another thing I do not hate China neither i personally have anything against it but if their is too much fanboy talk about FC-20 being technically par with Rafale EF or gripen then i am not going to tolerate that rubbish. Atleast i am not as cheap as indians who only look at satisfying their ego even if it takes to lie, they are pathological liars and i am not.

You simply couldn't resist India Bashing.....

 

[batmannow]

This article will be udated periodically. UPdated April 25th, 2008
We will closely watch this breaking news, and monitor it very closely.


Per Janes Defense Weekly, the news item about the Pakistani refusal to purchase additional planes has been denied. What is amazing is that the original story was not refuted directly by Pakistan. Why did the Pakistani news media reported the reduction of the number of F-16s that it had planned to order? Pakistan had ordered 36 (18+1 8) F-16s from General Dynamics, USA. After the first 18, Pakistan had the option to buy an additional 18. According the news items planted in the press Pakistan had chosen not to exercise that option. According to press reports, the official “company line” is that the number of planes have been reduced because of financial constraints.However the timing of the story about the cancellation is curious. Both China and Pakistan have set goals to increase mutual trade to the $15 Bilion mark. In China President Musharraf announced that the goal will be met that the number will be over $16.5 Billion. No business deal had been announced. The F-16 cancellation comes right on the heels of President Musharraf’s visit to China where ostensibly Pakistan has been offered some advanced Chinese hardware. The head of the Chinese Air Force and the Defense Minster of China are in Pakistan right now and the Foreign Minister is arriving in a weeks time. According to new reports Pakistan has been offered the Chinese 4th generation J-11 (comparable F-15 Eagle, F-16 Fighting Falcon and the U.S. Navy F-18 Hornet.) with eventual transfer of the plane’s production to Pakistan. The J-11 is the latest and most versatile aircraft in the PLAAF.Russia infuriated with Chinese export copis of Su-27 jet fighters: Russia’s attempts to settle down on China’s arms market have been made to no avail, the Nezavisimaya Gazeta reports. Chinese pirates have entered a new level of activity. They mastered the production technology and developed the Chinese production of Su-27 analogues with a view to subsequently export Russia infuriated with Chinese export copies of Su-27 jet fighters - Pravda.Ru

Russia has threatened to sue China for copying its Sukhoi Su-27SK fighters and its pirate production for export to Pakistan and other Third World countries at much cheaper prices, according to a media report. Russia may sue China over pirated fighter Press Trust of India / Moscow April 22, 2008

Russia has officially notified China that the production of J11 (fighters), a copy of Russian Su-27SK, is the violation of inter-governmental agreements. Moscow has vowed to launch legal procedures for the protection of its intellectual property,” leading daily ‘Nezavisimaya Gazeta’ reported today. Press Trust of India / Moscow April 22, 2008

The American F-16s offered to Pakistan come with no transfer of technology and is a black-box sale where Pakistan has no control over what it can do with the planes. It is to be noted that the deal offered to India by General Dynamics comes with local production of the plane and transfer of technology.

The J-11s are a great trade for the F-16s (block 50).

PAF 2008: Today the PAF is a manufacturer, assembler, purchaser and exporter of planes and services. The Pakistan Airforce of 2008 is totally different enterprise than the Pakistan Airforce of 1980 when it purchased the F-16s as a matter of pride. That pride turned to dust when the US imposed dilibitating sanctions on Pakistan. Pakistan which had paid $450 million cash for the planes, never got the planes, nor did she ever get the money back General Dynamics unable to deliver the planes, parked them in a desert and eventually the USAF picked them up.

TOO MANY STRINGS: The F-16s, with their intrusive inspection regime and cumbersome restrictions on where they can be kept are considered more a liability than an asset for the PAF. The contract of the F-a6 says that the planes have to parked separate from the other planes of the PAF, and the planes in theory at least have been tinkered with so that they cannot carry Nuclear weapons. The PAF is also scared of secret US “kill buttons” on the planes which would render them useless in combat.

Gone are the days when every taxi, truck, bus and van in Pakistan used to have an F-16 sticker on it and Pakistanis boys grew up playing with models of the plane. Today one see the JF-Thunder on the buses, vans and trucks along with a slogan “Pak-Cheen dosti Zindabad” (Long live Pakistan-China friendship).

The pride in the Pakistan Airforce today is not the F-16 but the JF-17 Thunder–a plane with ever increasing amount of indigenously produced content. It is unimaginable that the new government would irritate the PAF and the army by reducing the order for the F-16s. Recent Indian news reports state that Russia is going to sue China for exporting the F-11s to Pakistan and other countries. What is curious about this story is that PAF had yet to publicly acknowledge the purchase of F-11s from China! The new F-11 are based on the one seater Su 27s, but also the newer one is based upon the two seater Su-30. China purchased the Su 27s, but later canceled the order after its version of the Su-27 was successful.

The reduction of the F-16 order should be seen in the context of the earlier reduction in the F-16 order. At that time the excuse that was given was the earthquake. However a few weeks later the PAF announced the purchase of F-10s from China. Now the same pattern is being repeated. The advantage of purchasing the planes from China is that China transfers the technology so that Pakistan can eventually build them in Pakistan. The local production of the plane unleashes the traditional Pakistani entrepreneurial creativity which helped it build an atomic bomb and indigenous missiles. Chinese planes do not come with crippling restrictions on usage and political strings. For example after Pakistan used her F-104s against India in the 1965 war, this act of self defense was deemed a violation of the contract. Even though Pakistan was the founding member of SEATO and CENTO, and had two executive defense agreements with the USA, an arms embargo was imposed on Pakistan. Heavily dependent on the USA for arms, the Pakistani government had to fight the 1971 war under a US arms embargo.
With this history, it is no wonder that the PAF now prides itself on its own capabilities and does not want to be dependent on US arms and planes. The PAF now has the infrastructure to make the plane, and can purchase enough technology in the open market to make a plane very competitive with the usually superior American technology. The PAF seems to be following a triage strategy
The Chinese have been very successful with this strategy. The Pakistani armed forces have also been successful with this strategy learned by purchasing, and then improving missiles, UAVs and tanks etc.
Pakistan buys fewer F-16s? Indigenous Flanker from China! - Fighter aircraft - Zimbio

remmember, that all?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

This article will be udated periodically. UPdated April 25th, 2008
We will closely watch this breaking news, and monitor it very closely.


Per Janes Defense Weekly, the news item about the Pakistani refusal to purchase additional planes has been denied. What is amazing is that the original story was not refuted directly by Pakistan. Why did the Pakistani news media reported the reduction of the number of F-16s that it had planned to order? Pakistan had ordered 36 (18+1 8) F-16s from General Dynamics, USA. After the first 18, Pakistan had the option to buy an additional 18. According the news items planted in the press Pakistan had chosen not to exercise that option. According to press reports, the official “company line” is that the number of planes have been reduced because of financial constraints.However the timing of the story about the cancellation is curious. Both China and Pakistan have set goals to increase mutual trade to the $15 Bilion mark. In China President Musharraf announced that the goal will be met that the number will be over $16.5 Billion. No business deal had been announced. The F-16 cancellation comes right on the heels of President Musharraf’s visit to China where ostensibly Pakistan has been offered some advanced Chinese hardware. The head of the Chinese Air Force and the Defense Minster of China are in Pakistan right now and the Foreign Minister is arriving in a weeks time. According to new reports Pakistan has been offered the Chinese 4th generation J-11 (comparable F-15 Eagle, F-16 Fighting Falcon and the U.S. Navy F-18 Hornet.) with eventual transfer of the plane’s production to Pakistan. The J-11 is the latest and most versatile aircraft in the PLAAF.Russia infuriated with Chinese export copis of Su-27 jet fighters: Russia’s attempts to settle down on China’s arms market have been made to no avail, the Nezavisimaya Gazeta reports. Chinese pirates have entered a new level of activity. They mastered the production technology and developed the Chinese production of Su-27 analogues with a view to subsequently export Russia infuriated with Chinese export copies of Su-27 jet fighters - Pravda.Ru

Russia has threatened to sue China for copying its Sukhoi Su-27SK fighters and its pirate production for export to Pakistan and other Third World countries at much cheaper prices, according to a media report. Russia may sue China over pirated fighter Press Trust of India / Moscow April 22, 2008

Russia has officially notified China that the production of J11 (fighters), a copy of Russian Su-27SK, is the violation of inter-governmental agreements. Moscow has vowed to launch legal procedures for the protection of its intellectual property,” leading daily ‘Nezavisimaya Gazeta’ reported today. Press Trust of India / Moscow April 22, 2008

The American F-16s offered to Pakistan come with no transfer of technology and is a black-box sale where Pakistan has no control over what it can do with the planes. It is to be noted that the deal offered to India by General Dynamics comes with local production of the plane and transfer of technology.

The J-11s are a great trade for the F-16s (block 50).

PAF 2008: Today the PAF is a manufacturer, assembler, purchaser and exporter of planes and services. The Pakistan Airforce of 2008 is totally different enterprise than the Pakistan Airforce of 1980 when it purchased the F-16s as a matter of pride. That pride turned to dust when the US imposed dilibitating sanctions on Pakistan. Pakistan which had paid $450 million cash for the planes, never got the planes, nor did she ever get the money back General Dynamics unable to deliver the planes, parked them in a desert and eventually the USAF picked them up.

TOO MANY STRINGS: The F-16s, with their intrusive inspection regime and cumbersome restrictions on where they can be kept are considered more a liability than an asset for the PAF. The contract of the F-a6 says that the planes have to parked separate from the other planes of the PAF, and the planes in theory at least have been tinkered with so that they cannot carry Nuclear weapons. The PAF is also scared of secret US “kill buttons” on the planes which would render them useless in combat.

Gone are the days when every taxi, truck, bus and van in Pakistan used to have an F-16 sticker on it and Pakistanis boys grew up playing with models of the plane. Today one see the JF-Thunder on the buses, vans and trucks along with a slogan “Pak-Cheen dosti Zindabad” (Long live Pakistan-China friendship).

The pride in the Pakistan Airforce today is not the F-16 but the JF-17 Thunder–a plane with ever increasing amount of indigenously produced content. It is unimaginable that the new government would irritate the PAF and the army by reducing the order for the F-16s. Recent Indian news reports state that Russia is going to sue China for exporting the F-11s to Pakistan and other countries. What is curious about this story is that PAF had yet to publicly acknowledge the purchase of F-11s from China! The new F-11 are based on the one seater Su 27s, but also the newer one is based upon the two seater Su-30. China purchased the Su 27s, but later canceled the order after its version of the Su-27 was successful.

The reduction of the F-16 order should be seen in the context of the earlier reduction in the F-16 order. At that time the excuse that was given was the earthquake. However a few weeks later the PAF announced the purchase of F-10s from China. Now the same pattern is being repeated. The advantage of purchasing the planes from China is that China transfers the technology so that Pakistan can eventually build them in Pakistan. The local production of the plane unleashes the traditional Pakistani entrepreneurial creativity which helped it build an atomic bomb and indigenous missiles. Chinese planes do not come with crippling restrictions on usage and political strings. For example after Pakistan used her F-104s against India in the 1965 war, this act of self defense was deemed a violation of the contract. Even though Pakistan was the founding member of SEATO and CENTO, and had two executive defense agreements with the USA, an arms embargo was imposed on Pakistan. Heavily dependent on the USA for arms, the Pakistani government had to fight the 1971 war under a US arms embargo.
With this history, it is no wonder that the PAF now prides itself on its own capabilities and does not want to be dependent on US arms and planes. The PAF now has the infrastructure to make the plane, and can purchase enough technology in the open market to make a plane very competitive with the usually superior American technology. The PAF seems to be following a triage strategy
The Chinese have been very successful with this strategy. The Pakistani armed forces have also been successful with this strategy learned by purchasing, and then improving missiles, UAVs and tanks etc.
Pakistan buys fewer F-16s? Indigenous Flanker from China! - Fighter aircraft - Zimbio

remmember, that all?

oh wawwoo... Moin ansarii! aka arms chair general.
seriously show me a source where it says PAF evaluated J-11B like they did Rafale, EF, Gripen or heck even J-10.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Remember PAF version of FC-20 is nothing like the export model of J-10B. So china does not has to R&D in radar, avionics, electronic warfare, and possibly most of its armaments. the IRST you are talking about is a variant of currently used by PLAAF flankers fleet. Another thing, it will not be a wise dessision to opt for 1st generation chinese AESA radar because by the time we get it the world even india will have 2nd++ and 3rd generation AESA radars or in proses of having one.

Now come on yaar. You are making it sound like as if we simply put a paper in printing machine and we get a desire model at the receiving end. I highly highly dough FC-20 would be anything like European 4.5 generation MRCA, we will be dam fools to believe in this.

This is my version..

Pakistan: financially broke, looking for 4++ MRCA European options too expensive in huge numbers like 50+.
China: After many friendly countries showing interests in J-10 china decides to produce a export variant of J-10 the J-10B and produce a more advance variant for themself the J-10C/super-10.
Pakistan: Good thing China is our ally and they can afford to give us soft loans. However we must have our own version with more capable western systems to make this aircraft more capable.

What is point here..on one hand you are saying that FC-20 is nothing like export model of J-10B then in later para you said that export version of J-10 is J-10B???
What you want to say actually....? Can't get you there.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

What is point here..on one hand you are saying that FC-20 is nothing like export model of J-10B then in later para you said that export version of J-10 is J-10B???
What you want to say actually....? Can't get you there.

Ok..

J-10A is a domestic product.
J-10B is a export product based on J-10A (FC-20 is PAF variant with western systems thats why it is quite different from J-10B which may have all chinese any maybe russian systems)
J-10C is another domestic product only meant to be used by China.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Ok..

J-10A is a domestic product.
J-10B is a export product based on J-10A (FC-20 is PAF variant with western systems thats why it is quite different from J-10B which may have all chinese any maybe russian systems)
J-10C is another domestic product only meant to be used by China.

Do u have specs of J-10B and FC-20?

I don't see much difference between FC-1 and JF-17 Thunder. One plane with two very different planes.

J--10C, will it is still a rumor nothing confirmed yet. Only thing confirmed is J-14 being in development by CAC.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Do u have specs of J-10B and FC-20?

Chinese platform (J-10B) with western systems = FC-20 PAF designation for J-10B.

I don't see much difference between FC-1 and JF-17 Thunder. One plane with two very different planes.

the next 50 batch is way different then FC-1.

 

[SBD-3]

Do u have specs of J-10B and FC-20?

I don't see much difference between FC-1 and JF-17 Thunder. One plane with two very different planes.

J--10C, will it is still a rumor nothing confirmed yet. Only thing confirmed is J-14 being in development by CAC.

J-10C would be something Twin Engine as per my information and close to Typhoon so as PAF is not going for Twin Engine till 2019 so neither J-10C nor J-11B and nor Rafale (to disappointment of Growler )

 

[batmannow]

oh wawwoo... Moin ansarii! aka arms chair general.
seriously show me a source where it says PAF evaluated J-11B like they did Rafale, EF, Gripen or heck even J-10.

seriously, you need to check , your eyes man!
that repot was from , JANEs DEFENCE WEEKLY!
YOU dont, think its serious, thn i think ! you must be joking!
OH, sory you mean, a PAF officers logbook! right

 

[pakpower]

for your kind, knowledge! dear sir!
follow this,thread & that was answerd by a great voice! NEO!
Pakistan has been offered the Chinese 4th generation J-11 (SU27)

from NEO
Sir,

J-11B is being evaluated for induction beyond 2012 and yes there's a need for long range MRCA as part of PAF's two phase modernisation strategy.

The first phase included replacement of older and obsolete fleet of F-6/F-7/AQ-5 and Mirages with JF-17 and F-16 and strengthening airdefence.

Second phase is about expanding the fleet and her offensive capabilities inwhich FC-20 and J-11B will play greater role than the JF-17, again we're looking into 2012-2014, 4-6 years from now, as possible window to induct these heavy platforms with comonality in avionics and weaponsuit.

The report is true.
SO, PLZ TAKE YOUR TIME BEFORE , being a genius!

So does this means that PAF will go for J-11B after 2016 and after getting the J-10B ?

 

[Guest]

I think i chose a wrong tittle. All i ment to say that FC-20 can not cope 400+ IAF superior 4.5 generation MRCA on its own so we need another high tech MRCA like Rafale or EF in limited numbers perhaps 12-18 in near future possibly before 2016. The reason why PAF was able to utilize its F-86s which were technically inferior to IAF Gnat Hunters in 65 war because it had backing of superior fighter the F-104 and that too was acquired in limited numbers. Star fighters was a terror in the sky!

since you are going to find a better plane, then i suppose we have to konw how to define it first. this is a 1973 german equation, really old but clearly singled out some critical features

combat capability= (engine power* specific excess power* maneuverability * operational radius * wing span^2* avionic^3* weapon power^4) / (witght^3* specific features(RCS?)* frangibility)

amnog these crucial factors, except for WS and RCS, avionic could be improved by AWACS, weapon power coule be improved by better missiles, weight could be decresed by less fuel and less ammo. so if you are going to find something superior, you'd better go for some ACs which are stealth and with large wing span. furthermore, maybe you have noticed that this equation obviously miss two critical factors: tactics and quantity.

however this is not the whole story yet, factors shown below have to be taken into consideration too:
1)logistic cost and capability. can it be repaire and reload at any airport if the home base is destroied?
2)spare pilot traning. how many pilots should be trained for this platform and can they adept other platform if needed?
3)quick and reliable supply (both components and ACs). such as Israel AF got instant US supplyment after F4s were re-painted and landed during the Six Day.

 

[Wingman]

J-10C would be something Twin Engine as per my information and close to Typhoon so as PAF is not going for Twin Engine till 2019 so neither J-10C nor J-11B and nor Rafale (to disappointment of Growler )

Yeah I agree PAF will not go for twin engined A/C, J-10 is single engined. Moreover, the sentence could be " F-16s need a partner" and that partner would be J-10.

 

[desiman]

yar its wastage of time on my part ... since you will never be convinced ... but still i will try.

Q: pakistan can hardly afford the FC-20 let alone the Euro fighter or the rafale.
A: Pakistan is currently the only export customer, as it has been negotiating order since 2004~5. There may have been negotiations with other countries for JF-17, but no negotiations regarding FC-20's export to any other nation have come up. I am not discussing Typhoon/Rafale here, only FC-20.

Q: Just because pakistan wants something and China "says" it can make it does not make the fc-20 on par with the MKI, Rafale or eurofighter.
A: Only time can be the judge of that. Let it roll out first ... then compare. Its just like if I say Pakfa can never be on par with F-35, let alone F22, but i will never say that. I don't live in fool's paradise, i like facts.

Q: Billions of dollars of reserach goes into these amazing jet and they dont just pop out one day like the j-10.
A: Do you mean to "China is a poor poor nation" and cannot afford R&D for 4.5 Gen ? If that's your intent dear, you need to read articles about concerns of USA over budget allocated for Chinese Military and its R&D. I have first hand knowledge (from my relative) of how huge Chinese Military Aircraft industry is how much they are investing into it, both in dollars and in manpower.

Q: I highly doubt that Chinese tech is anywhere even close to russian tech let alone western tech. The Chinese are known to copy everything they get their hands on. I can bet on anything that the j-10 is a modified version of the MKK that they currently have in service.
A: So if it is copy of MKK, its comparable to MKK.

Q: I am almost 100% sure that the j-10 or 11 are all copied from somewhere just like how the f-7 was a total copy of the mig-21.
A: J11 is license built Su27/Su30. F7 is license built Mig21. Just like Indian Su30MKI is license built Su30MKK. FC-20 is not license built ... it BEING developed, just like FC-1. They may have tech from all over, just like Su30MKI which has Israeli jammer, Russian Enginer+radar+etc, but FC-20 is a pure Chinese product.

Q: I think pakistan's best option is to push USA for give them more f-16 or try to put together some cash for rafale or griphens
A: We are already exercising that option, but F-16/Rafale/Grippen have many technological and logistical limits which FC-20 will overcome for PAF.

Q: I have read the specs on the j-10 and fc-20 and i find them highly doubtful considering the fact that no correct info comes out of china anyways.
A: And yet you insist to form your opinion without any evidence. PAF hasn't decided whether they like FC-20 or dislike it, they are waiting for it to come out first.

Q: More F-16 block 52 would be a real threat to the IAF, much more that the j-10 or fc20 which i am sure you cannot depend on.
A: We "depend" on China like Indians depends on Russia. Although F16 is a good platform, FC20 might be better, but their is a possibility that it might not be that great. Again, let it come out, then decide. On a similar note, India has the "greatest" Su30MKI, then why go for MRCA, why not buy more Su30MKI. Its because diversity is a good thing. PAF and IAF both understand this, i urge you to do the same.

Hope that answers you queries.

LOL ok sapper let me shed some light on this for you, There are some reasons why Pakistan has to go for chineese arecrafts -

1) cost - Chinese aircrafts are way cheaper than western aircrafts and pakistan can only afford, yes diversity is very good, you dont have to tell me that, but for pakistan maintaining 2 to 3 4.5 generation aircrafts will be a tough task. Maintaining a Rafale or an Eurofighter cost way more than any Chinese jet.

2) Availability - Pakistan has access to F-16's in limited quantity and of inferior quality, and it also has access to European jets but again they are too expensive. The Indian mrca deal is a highlight to the world that india now has access to Western tech without any strings attached. USA has offered the most advanced version of the F-16 to india not Pakistan and that itself shows where both countries stand today in the world.

I am not saying that the Chinese dont have money, but the technical expertise is still with the western world and Russian a bit. You have to consider the fact that the media in China is not free and any real news about these jets will not be known until they are used by some other nation. Just for example, the frigates that pakistan has got recently from china, the f-22's, China compares them with western ships and says that it is an advanced version of a previous ship. But after export to various countries, the f-22 has been heavily criticized and ridiculed for its performance. The same applied to the j-10,11 or w.e. Just because the Chinese call it a "4.5" generation aircraft, it just does not become one before it is evaluated by other sources. I respect your opinion and it makes sense many ways, but again just like with the jf-17, there are way too many fanboys of the j-10, fc-20 and j-11 here who do not take any other info in mind before they say anything. And how is the MKI is license built from the MKK ??????? lol please get your info straight.