Early Child Marriage Bill To Be Tabled In NA Soon; Says Dr. Mazari

[El Sidd]

I was thinking along the lines of presenting birth certificate at time of Nikkah...And any Molvi getting underaged children married should just be sent to jail without trial as he is ruining future generation!

These laws do exist actually already.

It is in the rural areas where the phenomenon is more prevalent although honestly enough the cities are not that regulated itself.
People do not understand that a molvi is not needed for a nikkah.

 

[Dubious]

People do not understand that a molvi is not needed for a nikkah.

Then who is? I thought molvi is needed to do the paperwork coz he has license...well not only molvi other people have license...But basically they should only allow few people to have license and give the responsibility to these people so that if caught their license taken away and them thrown in jail!

 

[El Sidd]

Then who is? I thought molvi is needed to do the paperwork coz he has license...well not only molvi other people have license...But basically they should only allow few people to have license and give the responsibility to these people so that if caught their license taken away and them thrown in jail!

Why cant they just use NADRA? and have a lawyer register the marriage there.
You get stamped paper for the nikkah where only witnesses and signatures are needed.

 

[Dubious]

Why cant they just use NADRA? and have a lawyer register the marriage there.
You get stamped paper for the nikkah where only witnesses and signatures are needed.

That too can be an option court marriages happen that way....not sure abt the stamped paper...But I think stamped paper ki izzat nai rahi aaj kal...NADRA messes your CNIC you have to issue a stamped paper saying you gave faulty info!

 

[El Sidd]

That too can be an option court marriages happen that way....not sure abt the stamped paper...But I think stamped paper ki izzat nai rahi aaj kal...NADRA messes your CNIC you have to issue a stamped paper saying you gave faulty info!

I do not understand the term court marriage and the stigma it carries in the society.
A court is just a registering authority like the local union council. There is absolutely no difference between a marriage registered in the court to a marriage registered at a union council.

Now there exists a phenomenon that people do not even register marriages due to obvious advantages or to hide whatever they feel must be hidden. How can that be countered?

I appreciate the governments effort on this but they should first tackle the problems of already married people before moving on the pastures of the newly wed. There must be a system which ensures that the state can actively play part in ensuring that the terms agreed between the two parties are fulfilled since the state is a party to this agreement giving validity.

 

[Dubious]

I do not understand the term court marriage and the stigma it carries in the society.
A court is just a registering authority like the local union council. There is absolutely no difference between a marriage registered in the court to a marriage registered at a union council.

Only difference is 1 has dhoom dhamaka and showbaz other is silently done and thus raises eyebrows of the neighbourhood who dont know where their own children are but want to know details about their neighbour's routine!

Now there exists a phenomenon that people do not even register marriages due to obvious advantages or to hide whatever they feel must be hidden. How can that be countered?

People need to be educated you get no gain if you arent "legally" married to the man...Wonder which woman would want to be living under such a condition...Maybe those who want momentary gains...But then in the end and in the long run, it is their loss and they shouldnt even be heard in court!

I appreciate the governments effort on this but they should first tackle the problems of already married people before moving on the pastures of the newly wed. There must be a system which ensures that the state can actively play part in ensuring that the terms agreed between the two parties are fulfilled since the state is a party to this agreement giving validity.

Well, the 2nd rule to a legal nikkah is have brains! State cant control everything [realistically speaking] Just like how it cant control people drinking in their homes even when there are laws to forbid it!

State can only control so much and form laws/ pass bills and whatnot...Rest needs to be on the shoulders of the nation! They need to grow a brain and think long term instead of short gains!

 

[M. Sarmad]

There is no need to amend the Child Marriage Restraint Act, 1929
Minimum age of 16 for marriage is good enough.
We are a Muslim country which outlaws fornication
Nikah has to be encouraged, Zina discouraged
We should be very careful when enacting marriage laws

 

[El Sidd]

Only difference is 1 has dhoom dhamaka and showbaz other is silently done and thus raises eyebrows of the neighbourhood who dont know where their own children are but want to know details about their neighbour's routine!

But the state can offer guidelines to control the spending just like it can ensure that Haq Mehar or inheritance is duly transferred as stipulated in the agreement?

People need to be educated you get no gain if you arent "legally" married to the man...Wonder which woman would want to be living under such a condition...Maybe those who want momentary gains...But then in the end and in the long run, it is their loss and they shouldnt even be heard in court!

Marriage is a universal fact. Its definition changes from culture to society to demography to almost everything.
While the state only sees it as a working relationship between the undersigned parties. Culturally it is beyond that and there lies a social problem which the government is entitled to legislate for.

Well, the 2nd rule to a legal nikkah is have brains! State cant control everything [realistically speaking] Just like how it cant control people drinking in their homes even when there are laws to forbid it!

State can only control so much and form laws/ pass bills and whatnot...Rest needs to be on the shoulders of the nation! They need to grow a brain and think long term instead of short gains!

State cannot control anything which happens within the confines of a home but the social aspects of it does allow the state to formulate rules to either shun a creeping evil or promote a diminishing good.

 

[Dubious]

But the state can offer guidelines to control the spending just like it can ensure that Haq Mehar or inheritance is duly transferred as stipulated in the agreement?

True...I think a lot of guidelines have been issued problem is those who dont want to hear it will never follow it!
Yet half the population still doesnt know of this:

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/387560-know-whats-in-your-n

Marriage is a universal fact. Its definition changes from culture to society to demography to almost everything.
While the state only sees it as a working relationship between the undersigned parties. Culturally it is beyond that and there lies a social problem which the government is entitled to legislate for.

Well Islam already gives you details about what is allowed and not...but who follows? Why would same person who doesnt follow Islamic laws follow state laws?

There is only so much restrictions and restrains a state can put so that NGOs dont come crying with right to live BS! Also, marriage shouldnt be made a burden but it is exactly that in Pakistan!

State cannot control anything which happens within the confines of a home but the social aspects of it does allow the state to formulate rules to either shun a creeping evil or promote a diminishing good.

What exactly do you want the state to formulate?

 

[El Sidd]

Well Islam already gives you details about what is allowed and not...but who follows? Why would same person who doesnt follow Islamic laws follow state laws?

There is only so much restrictions and restrains a state can put so that NGOs dont come crying with right to live BS! Also, marriage shouldnt be made a burden but it is exactly that in Pakistan!

The state cannot legislate who you marry but it can legislate that you are/were found to have not fulfilled the social contract and can nullify it.

Leaving the religious aspects aside, the state has all the right to formulate rules to ensure governance and enforcement of said agreements.

What exactly do you want the state to formulate?

It is a social contract(marriage) in its most crudest form. The state reserves the right to formulate laws to keep tabs on the couple and provide not only counseling but routine checks to ensure all parties of the social contract are answerable to the social contract as witnessed by the state.

For example: in a social welfare state, the state can take away your child if the parents are found to be neglecting on a grave scale.

 

[TMA]

Then who is? I thought molvi is needed to do the paperwork coz he has license...well not only molvi other people have license...But basically they should only allow few people to have license and give the responsibility to these people so that if caught their license taken away and them thrown in jail!

Well I think from an Islamic perspective the State does not need to be involved in the marriage.
You just need bride and groom along with witnesses and guardians and that is it.
Perhaps others can shed more light on the jurisprudence of this?

I personally understand why the State is doing this but at the same time do not like the fact that the State is getting to much involved in matters where she does not need to. You know historically in Muslims countries since there was no such thing as Statutory Law that was binding upon all. This is a Western concept given to Pakistan from Colonial days....

The State ought to be a "facilitator" and not a "dictator"....

 

[Dubious]

Well I think from an Islamic perspective the State does not need to be involved in the marriage.
You just need bride and groom along with witnesses and guardians and that is it.
Perhaps others can shed more light on the jurisprudence of this?

I personally understand why the State is doing this but at the same time do not like the fact that the State is getting to much involved in matters where she does not need to. You know historically in Muslims countries since there was no such thing as Statutory Law that was binding upon all. This is a Western concept given to Pakistan from Colonial days....

The State ought to be a "facilitator" and not a "dictator"....

Well when people are prone to doing crap, the politicians will answer for that if their conscious tells them to make their grave more comfortable then why not?

In the past, this was not needed because Muslims respected Islam and didnt try to do their own way! Now a days, Muslims respect what their ancestors did (underage marriages/ girl is a burden get her married quick and the likes) or want to show a lot (big fancy weddings need to be better than the previous one held in the neighbourhood- competition) or become Westernized (large fancy weddings)

 

[El Sidd]

Well when people are prone to doing crap, the politicians will answer for that if their conscious tells them to make their grave more comfortable then why not?

In the past, this was not needed because Muslims respected Islam and didnt try to do their own way! Now a days, Muslims respect what their ancestors did (underage marriages/ girl is a burden get her married quick and the likes) or want to show a lot (big fancy weddings need to be better than the previous one held in the neighbourhood- competition) or become Westernized (large fancy weddings)

Not really.

In the past people did not have enough time or resources to invest on this issue. Nor the governments were interested in this due to the sensitivity of the whole thing.

Marriage as status symbol is a universal fact common throughout most conservative cultures from South America to Papua New Guinea.

Khair umeed ki jasakti hai kay maujooda hukoomat mass media ke istemaal se logon me awareness pehlaye. Logon ko jab unke huqooq ka pata hoga or andaza hoga kay unke huqooq hukoomat yaqeeni banaegi, inshallah tab behtari asakti hai. laken agar qawaneen mehal kay andar banege or jhopri me lago honge then this is a futile exercise.

Well I think from an Islamic perspective the State does not need to be involved in the marriage.

Who will be the witness or prosecutor of the social contract between the said parties if its not the state?

konse maulana chor diye hain tum logon per bartaanya me azaab ke tehat?

 

[Dubious]

Not really.

In the past people did not have enough time or resources to invest on this issue. Nor the governments were interested in this due to the sensitivity of the whole thing.

I am not talking about Pakistani govt but in general

Khair umeed ki jasakti hai kay maujooda hukoomat mass media ke istemaal se logon me awareness pehlaye. Logon ko jab unke huqooq ka pata hoga or andaza hoga kay unke huqooq hukoomat yaqeeni banaegi, inshallah tab behtari asakti hai. laken agar qawaneen mehal kay andar banege or jhopri me lago honge then this is a futile exercise.

I already posted videos of awareness that no one seems interested in viewing!

 

[Jaanbaz]

No. Just don't.
Puberty is the criteria of marriage, not age.
Islam allows marriage after puberty whichever age it comes.
Because hormones change and urges come.
If a girs physically adult at 11 , she should be allowed marriage if there's a need.
Legally forcing her to wait another 7-8 years is not fair and we will end up like western countries where 13 year olds get pregnant and it's common to see 15 year old mother, but they cannot marry and csnnca get their urges satisfied the appropriate way.

Marrying 11 year old? Are you messed up in the head or your are a pervert? Its not just about puberty but also being mentally mature enough to understand and handle the responsibilities of marriage. And do you know anything about biology mister Paedo? 12 year old giving birth has a higher chance of dying from it but then again your kind don't care do they? As long as perverts like you get to fulfill your needs. Probably explains why there are so many British Pakistanis involved in Grooming of young underage English girls.