Does India need Secularism?

[tvsram1992]

Why would you want the faith of your fellow citizens to be decided by a hostile neighbouring country and why would you want your fellow citizens to suffer?

Point 1 : Pakistan would never accept extra population .
We are suffering ourselves , if we had complete hindustan and pakistan unlike one religious and one secular our relations would have been much better . Dont u agree ?

 

[bronxbull]

I am delighted that an 'highly knowledgeable Brahmin' like you have acknowledged my patience. Maybe if I am lucky you will even admire my 'logic'. A person can always hope for your favor

as a proud naidruv kashyap brahmin myself,i would gladly cut the gardhan of many many brahmins just to cleanse my quam.

that is the first thing i would do.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Obviously I was not trying to cover the whole history, I was just replying to Joe S's specific reference to Jinnah. That was obviously wrong.


So in order to complete the analysis (as per your suggestion) Here are some specific questions. Hope you know the answer already (and don't have to google and wiki )

1. Do you know who was running the "show" in Congress party before Gandhi?

2. Why was he 'kicked" out?

3. How was "kicked" out?

4. Why did he (the kicked out guy) sue (in court) the bigwigs of Congress party?

5. Who represented the kicked out guy in court? (Attorney's name).

6. Who invited Gandhi from S. Africa?

7. What was Gandhi famous for in S. Africa?
-- In other words why was Gandhi invited from S. Africa?

8. When did Gandhi arrive in S. Africa?

9. was there a time frame linked to Gandhi's coming, and Gandhi's predecessor's kicking out?


OK

on to mass movement that you talk about.


10. What were the main sources "approved" for buying cloth during his "charkha" movement?


Thank you.

I should know the answers to these I watched the movie Gandhi (1982) with Sir Ben Kingsley in it.

Trying to be funny about your OWN aka Indian history?


Didn't expect it from an Indian poster.


peace

 

[sankranti]

as a proud naidruv kashyap brahmin myself,i would gladly cut the gardhan of many many brahmins just to cleanse my quam.

that is the first thing i would do.

No need to kick a man when he is down

Some people are just too timid to face the truth. It takes longer, but eventual they get there. Satyameva Jayathe.

 

[bronxbull]

no just saying,if it gets to that point,there ll be no emotions son,daughter/brother.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Point 1 : Pakistan would never accept extra population .
?

Off course.

But a good Indian should not even be talking about forcing "Indian population" out of India no matter what the reason is. I believe your implicit message is a positive one.

if we had complete hindustan and pakistan unlike one religious and one secular our relations would have been much better . Dont u agree ?

On paper it may look OK>

But the history tells us otherwise.

Long before Muslims came on the scene (that in itself was long long time ago), Hindus and Bhuddists and Hindus vs. Hindus wars and raja vs. raja was name of the game.

I am sure you have read more about epic Hindu-on-Hindu battles right?


Thus religion is not a factor. $tupidity and lack of historical knowledge is. This is why our region has consistently lost to small time invaders.


And we are doing the same thing again in 2013 that $tupid rajas did in 1800s, 1600s, 1400s, 1200s, ..... (I'm sure you get the point. Right?).

And if we do not learn, and study, and change our ways, year 2150 may see another small band of foreigners ruling all of our @rses throughout India and Pakistan.

So

I sure hope we learn it quickly to live with each other for the betterment of the whole region.


peace

 

[tvsram1992]

Off course.
But a good Indian should not even be talking about forcing "Indian population" out of India no matter what the reason is. I believe your implicit message is a positive one.
On paper it may look OK>
But the history tells us otherwise.
Long before Muslims came on the scene (that in itself was long long time ago), Hindus and Bhuddists and Hindus vs. Hindus wars and raja vs. raja was name of the game.
I am sure you have read more about epic Hindu-on-Hindu battles right?
Thus religion is not a factor. $tupidity and lack of historical knowledge is. This is why our region has consistently lost to small time invaders.
And we are doing the same thing again in 2013 that $tupid rajas did in 1800s, 1600s, 1400s, 1200s, ..... (I'm sure you get the point. Right?).

And if we do not learn, and study, and change our ways, year 2150 may see another small band of foreigners ruling all of our @rses throughout India and Pakistan.

So

I sure hope we learn it quickly to live with each other for the betterment of the whole region.


peace

Yes i know its not possible but wonder what Pakistan says if asked openly . I know even that isnt possible . There was a very good recent thread about partition of India . We cheated ourselves and fell into the traps of religion . One of the recent ways to keep enemity among each other is religion . I feel we could have easily sorted out our differences if we were purely divided based on religion . What Pakistan forgets is there are equal no. of muslims in India as in Pakistan . What India thinks is ISLAM is to destroy peace and hinduism , that might be because of terrorists . Iam speaking about majority of people .

 

[bronxbull]

Off course.

But a good Indian should not even be talking about forcing "Indian population" out of India no matter what the reason is. I believe your implicit message is a positive one.





On paper it may look OK>

But the history tells us otherwise.

Long before Muslims came on the scene (that in itself was long long time ago), Hindus and Bhuddists and Hindus vs. Hindus wars and raja vs. raja was name of the game.

I am sure you have read more about epic Hindu-on-Hindu battles right?


Thus religion is not a factor. $tupidity and lack of historical knowledge is. This is why our region has consistently lost to small time invaders.


And we are doing the same thing again in 2013 that $tupid rajas did in 1800s, 1600s, 1400s, 1200s, ..... (I'm sure you get the point. Right?).

And if we do not learn, and study, and change our ways, year 2150 may see another small band of foreigners ruling all of our @rses throughout India and Pakistan.

So

I sure hope we learn it quickly to live with each other for the betterment of the whole region.


peace

no,thats not the problem.

The problem is conversion of Hindu population by the sword/by liking(which i strongly dont believe) and thirdly by offering freebies.

Last thing is being a total foriegner in Indian land,regardless of whatever it is.

Partition and the violence that came along and the failure of the congress party and also many facts and the activities of many people and finally the biased,negative opinions of the hindu faith/customs/lifestyle by the abrahamic faiths and the open weak arguments of communist/athiest/agnostic ideologues to malign/murder the hindu society/people.

Thats the death knell FH,i dont know what issues are plaguing Pakistan but these are the concerns of India.

So,the partition is full and final and there is no returning on it.

We can talk but like neutral strangers who meet on the street who have had severe amnesia and are unsure whether the otehr person is here to help me or to kill me.

 

[FaujHistorian]

....
The problem is conversion of Hindu population by the sword...

Hummm.

Please add time and place and the numbers converted.

Subcontinent is a vast vast place. So we got to be very very very specific.

Otherwise what you just said could easily come from 2-penny tabloid of a newspaper.


peace

 

[FaujHistorian]

.....There was a very good recent thread about partition of India . We cheated ourselves and fell into the traps of religion . One of the recent ways to keep enemity among each other is religion . I feel we could have easily sorted out our differences if we were purely divided based on religion . What Pakistan forgets is there are equal no. of muslims in India as in Pakistan . What India thinks is ISLAM is to destroy peace and hinduism , that might be because of terrorists . Iam speaking about majority of people .

Few pages ago, I posted specific aspects of 1900-1940 where religion was only superficial. The real reason were economic fight and control between the provinces/states of central India vs. the border states.

Unless we look at the economic struggle,

religion based discussion will always lead to ignorance just like in the 30s and 40s.


It is time we all behave as educated lot who can do true analysis

instead of behaving like petty street thug Mullahs and Pundits.


peace

 

[tvsram1992]

Few pages ago, I posted specific aspects of 1900-1940 where religion was only superficial. The real reason were economic fight and control between the provinces/states of central India vs. the border states.

Unless we look at the economic struggle,

religion based discussion will always lead to ignorance just like in the 30s and 40s.


It is time we all behave as educated lot who can do true analysis

instead of behaving like petty street thug Mullahs and Pundits.


peace

Agree that we can over come religion but few people need war to happen and bash other country just to make people forget about internal problems and support them . You know there are few people every where from real life to a defence forum to spoil the discussions and misguide . Good to see people with enough maturity to take the discussion forward .

 

[sankranti]

no just saying,if it gets to that point,there ll be no emotions son,daughter/brother.

I agree with your point that it is large sections of Brahmins who has let down the Hindus. But I think they have slowly reconciled to this truth, but they are now far too distant and removed from their responsibility to introduce internal reforms in our Smirit's to keep up with the time.

 

[bronxbull]

again,all that is fine,just saying the choice is still that.i have zero mercy for such weak.

PS: And secondly,you always find most of such people being the ones who are failures in life and no person in a good college/profession ll ever be a pseudo.

basically the brahmins who have failed to be worth a penny if not a pound.

Hummm.

Please add time and place and the numbers converted.

Subcontinent is a vast vast place. So we got to be very very very specific.

Otherwise what you just said could easily come from 2-penny tabloid of a newspaper.


peace

It is a fact FH,as much as you might say it is not true.

Even if you deduce it,it ll make sense.

rest is upto you.

 

[FaujHistorian]

It [conversion by sword] is a fact FH,as much as you might say it is not true.

Even if you deduce it,it ll make sense.

rest is upto you.

If it is a fact, you got to know at least the year and the general area where it took place.

If you can't provide the year/place, then it is a rumor.

No I am not saying it didn't happen.

I want to make sure you know what you really are talking about.

Heresy and rumors don't count in serious discussion.

 

[The_Showstopper]

Point 1 : Pakistan would never accept extra population .
We are suffering ourselves , if we had complete hindustan and pakistan unlike one religious and one secular our relations would have been much better . Dont u agree ?

But my question is why would you want to send your fellow citizens to a hostile state? As stated by one of the PDF member over here, the real problem is not religious animosity but land and power/wealth so I don't think your solution would work.