Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[he-man]

ok

I am serious yaar

 

[MilSpec]

I am serious yaar

If Reliance or tata or anyone else wants to manufacture Rafale, it is more than welcome to set up it's production facility in india, and sell it to IAF at prices cheaper than HAL or Dassualt Breguet.... I don't think anyone has stopped them.

 

[he-man]

If Reliance or tata or anyone else wants to manufacture Rafale, it is more than welcome to set up it's production facility in india, and sell it to IAF at prices cheaper than HAL or Dassualt Breguet.... I don't think anyone has stopped them.

Of course govt is against reliance doing it and favours HAL .my point is that there is absolutely nothing to be gained for hal in this but a private player would have benefitted heavily and that was good for long term.

Hal has demonstrated amply that it cannot absorb tech at all .also it needs to focus on mki,pakfa and tejas.how can they make 3 -4 diff planes at same time.it will lead to delays again-i am convinced

 

[MilSpec]

Of course govt is against reliance doing it and favours HAL .my point is that there is absolutely nothing to be gained for hal in this but a private player would have benefitted heavily and that was good for long term.

When HAL sells a MKI or a Jaguar or an AJT, It profits from the sale, Guess where that profit goes? Back to MoD.
When Reliance sells a Jet, Guess where the profit goes?

As far as gov't being against reliance is concerned, I highly doubt that that.

Hal has demonstrated amply that it cannot absorb tech at all .also it needs to focus on mki,pakfa and tejas.

Very amusing claims, Please tell me which technology transfer project is pending? Technology transfer might be a buzz word for people here, but in real life without completion technology transfer, any given project will not be scale it's gate review process. In other words it will affect all other aspects sub-assemblies which will result into incomplete project.

I have closely watched the technology transfer for MKI, and by all means the transfer of manufacturing process, cell training, and Technician engagement and transition, all went with surgical precision ahead of time.

If what you are referring to critical components, no inter-organisation technology transfer consists of 100% transfer of key subsystems.

how can they make 3 -4 diff planes at same time.it will lead to delays again-i am convinced

More floorspace, more product engineering, more manufacuring planning. that is how you increase your product portfolio. Your convictions might have different benchmarks, but the same organisation that at one point made, Do 228, Mig21, Mig27, Jaguar, Aeropostiale cheetah, cheetak, HS748 together in it's divesified organisation, seems in a pretty good position to manufacture "3-4" diff planes.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I too like Rafale but not at that cost !!! 30 billion is supposed to be cost of jets + training + service infra + weapons package. If not what you say is the figure ????

On rest parts Lets wait and watch.

The figure is around $15-20BN. The $30BN figure is factoring in the total life cycle costs so entirely redundant.

Just give the damn thing to reliance to manufacture, that is all the fuss is about.... If HAL manufactures the entire system, no private party benefits.

I'd prefer if it went to TATA or L&T over Reliance. As it is Reliance will be making the wings and many other parts for the Rafale in India along with many other pvt entities in India (i believe I've heard the figure of around 150 companies have been identified and signed up). Sir, the work-share agreement between Dassualt and HAL has all been sorted out now so that's a sticking point anymore.

 

[sancho]

Plan is to buy 60/80 PAK-FA off shelf and speed up LCA MK-2 and AMCA .
According to source the Russians have promised to consider the request.

What you guies think ??? BS or is it feasible ??? I definalty like it though

If IAF would had wanted the early Pak Fa, they would had ordered it instead of the additional 42 x MKIs, but they rejected them as not fitting to their requirements. Personally I think that was a mistake but that's how it is now.
The relation to MMRCA doesn't exist, MMRCA and Pak Fa are meant for completely different roles, the operational costs are far higher and the benefits for Indian industry is not available. The latter is the most important part of MMRCA, which neither no other fighter other than Rafale or the EF can offer.
By the way, the Russians would not consider a minute, if we really put had forwarded such a request, they would have directly started building them, because any additional Pak Fa that will be produced on their production line, helps them to reduce the costs of it.

I too like Rafale but not at that cost !!! 30 billion is supposed to be cost of jets + training + service infra + weapons package. If not what you say is the figure ????

That is the possible price including weapons and that over several years of operations, but that is not the price of the MMRCA competition. That lies between $15 and 20 billion, depending on how many fighters will be procured at the end.
When you take the $30 billion figure to account for Rafale, you can't take the estimated $100 million (but I have some doubts that they can hold that) a piece for Pak Fa / FGFA either, but have to add a lot of things too and that ammount will be by far costlier, especially at the begining.

 

[he-man]

If IAF would had wanted the early Pak Fa, they would had ordered it instead of the additional 42 x MKIs, but they rejected them as not fitting to their requirements. Personally I think that was a mistake but that's how it is now.
The relation to MMRCA doesn't exist, MMRCA and Pak Fa are meant for completely different roles, the operational costs are far higher and the benefits for Indian industry is not available. The latter is the most important part of MMRCA, which neither no other fighter other than Rafale or the EF can offer.
By the way, the Russians would not consider a minute, if we really put had forwarded such a request, they would have directly started building them, because any additional Pak Fa that will be produced on their production line, helps them to reduce the costs of it.



That is the possible price including weapons and that over several years of operations, but that is not the price of the MMRCA competition. That lies between $15 and 20 billion, depending on how many fighters will be procured at the end.
When you take the $30 billion figure to account for Rafale, you can't take the estimated $100 million (but I have some doubts that they can hold that) a piece for Pak Fa / FGFA either, but have to add a lot of things too and that ammount will be by far costlier, especially at the begining.

U are right.
Initial pakfa is also just many times better than a mki.no competition at all.

Stupid decision to wait for 2022 or so

 

[Echo_419]

Of course govt is against reliance doing it and favours HAL .my point is that there is absolutely nothing to be gained for hal in this but a private player would have benefitted heavily and that was good for long term.

Hal has demonstrated amply that it cannot absorb tech at all .also it needs to focus on mki,pakfa and tejas.how can they make 3 -4 diff planes at same time.it will lead to delays again-i am convinced

This lame duck Govt can't do nothing
Only hope is that we have a strong & stable govt in Center
By the way who are you voting for

 

[sancho]

U are right.
Initial pakfa is also just many times better than a mki.no competition at all.

Stupid decision to wait for 2022 or so

That's what I think as well, but more importantly, it will be important to have a stealth fighter soon, to keep an edge over PAF and keep up with PLAAF. Too bad that IAF rejected it, at least a leasing contranct of 2 x Pak Fa squads would have been great.

 

[Donatello]

when will this be signed, if ever?

 

[sancho]

when will this be signed, if ever?

Nothing happens till the elections are over.

 

[he-man]

This lame duck Govt can't do nothing
Only hope is that we have a strong & stable govt in Center
By the way who are you voting for

Bjp
I hate socialist policies of sonia

 

[he-man]

That's what I think as well, but more importantly, it will be important to have a stealth fighter soon, to keep an edge over PAF and keep up with PLAAF. Too bad that IAF rejected it, at least a leasing contranct of 2 x Pak Fa squads would have been great.

I really doubt rafale is worth at 100 million per piece against similarly priced pakfa

And I bet after the slow growth in last 2 years govt is thinking the same

 

[sancho]

I really doubt rafale is worth at 100 million per piece against similarly priced pakfa

And I bet after the slow growth in last 2 years govt is thinking the same

Capability wise it won't, but as a package of operational, industrial and technological benefits it is and that's what M-MRCA is about!

 

[he-man]

Capability wise it won't, but as a package of operational, industrial and technological benefits it is and that's what M-MRCA is about!

Point is we are cash starved at the moment and it will persist for another 2-3 years

We should be smart like chinese