Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Sergi]

I still highly doubt this news bro for a number of reasons.


As far as I'm concerned this Rafale deal is being signed this year- maybe before the end of Summer. End of story really.

I am wondering why are you so convinced over its a done deal !!!!
If that was the case MOD would not have any trouble signing assurance deal . But they don't !!!

PS: i am not saying PAK-FA is 100% news but source is reliable so far. Even I doubt Russia will put our needs ahead of them. But we are just discussing a possibility.

If I am not wrong RAFALE will cost around 30 billions with full package intra and weapon. Quality comes at price but don't forget Rafale was selected for being L1

 

[Abingdonboy]

I am wondering why are you so convinced over its a done deal !!!!
If that was the case MOD would not have any trouble signing assurance deal . But they don't !!!

PS: i am not saying PAK-FA is 100% news but source is reliable so far. And we are just discussing possibility.

If I am not wrong RAFALE will cost around 30 billions with full package intra and weapon. Quality comes at price but don't forget Rafale was selected for being L1

Firstly the 30 billion figure is just wrong, it was simply quoted by the Indian media who got their little minds confused between the difference between unit/flyaway costs and life-cycle costs.


I am convinced about the Rafale for a number of reasons- looking at everything that Dassualt has been saying of late- positive, optimistic and now seemingly just waiting on the General Elections to take place and the next GoI to settle in. Then there is the issues that seem to have been overcome i.e. the work-share agreement with HAL. The Indian Fin Minstry saying the MMRCA is budgeted for in the Defence budget 2014-15. The agreements Dassualt is making with other Indian companies for tie ups and the like as part of the Rafale deal. Simply put it seems that all the ducks are lined up and now all that remains is for the next GoI to get their act together.


Wrt the MoD not signing a pre-agreement and such. This really is non-news, Dassualt might have wanted it but this is NOT how the Indian MoD works or ever has, they don't hand out pre-agreements it just isn't done. So the MoD not wanting to do this in the case of the Rafale is meaningless and not a worrying sign in the slightest.

 

[Sergi]

Firstly the 30 billion figure is just wrong, it was simply quoted by the Indian media who got their little minds confused between the difference between unit/flyaway costs and life-cycle costs.


I am convinced about the Rafale for a number of reasons- looking at everything that Dassualt has been saying of late- positive, optimistic and now seemingly just waiting on the General Elections to take place and the next GoI to settle in. Then there is the issues that seem to have been overcome i.e. the work-share agreement with HAL. The Indian Fin Minstry saying the MMRCA is budgeted for in the Defence budget 2014-15. The agreements Dassualt is making with other Indian companies for tie ups and the like as part of the Rafale deal. Simply put it seems that all the ducks are lined up and now all that remains is for the next GoI to get their act together.


Wrt the MoD not signing a pre-agreement and such. This really is non-news, Dassualt might have wanted it but this is NOT how the Indian MoD works or ever has, they don't hand out pre-agreements it just isn't done. So the MoD not wanting to do this in the case of the Rafale is meaningless and not a worrying sign in the slightest.

I too like Rafale but not at that cost !!! 30 billion is supposed to be cost of jets + training + service infra + weapons package. If not what you say is the figure ????

On rest parts Lets wait and watch.

 

[MilSpec]

If it doesn't materialise re-tendering won't happen IMHO, the IAF cannot wait another, what, 7-8 years for a replacement to the MIG-21 (en masse). I bet in that situation they would buy a few more MKIs off the shelf and place larger order for the LCA MK.2 demanding that HAL ramp up delivery significantly.


As it is, like you say, the Rafale is a done deal....

Just give the damn thing to reliance to manufacture, that is all the fuss is about.... If HAL manufactures the entire system, no private party benefits.

 

[he-man]

I am wondering why are you so convinced over its a done deal !!!!
If that was the case MOD would not have any trouble signing assurance deal . But they don't !!!

PS: i am not saying PAK-FA is 100% news but source is reliable so far. Even I doubt Russia will put our needs ahead of them. But we are just discussing a possibility.

If I am not wrong RAFALE will cost around 30 billions with full package intra and weapon. Quality comes at price but don't forget Rafale was selected for being L1

I told everyone last year too that pakfa+rafale at the same time with shrinking economy will be a nightmare for us.

Ppl kept on laughing then.i still maintain we should have gone to pakfa onky and bypassed rafale completely but now its too late for that

 

[MilSpec]

There wont be a re-tender for sure !!! Chances of direct FMS are higher than retender.
Sourse is a babu. And the issue is cost. Right now its around 22 billions ( including everything expect weapon ) and bound to increase with time. And first Rafale isnt expected before late 2016 or early 2017 almost same time frame as a PAK-FA in RuAF.
So cost befit calution is favouring PAK-FA if Russian are willing to put forward IAF order and its infra would be used by future FGFA. There calutions are pure economics.
Actually the news might have some weight as IAF has critised few things in PAK-FA to MOD. And this might be the reason for that
@Abingdonboy

I dont think Rafale is going to change. It has been selected and it will come to IAF. It's just that some hawks in the south block want subsystems to be directed towards reliance instead of HAL. Dassault see the advantage in that, as they know they can collude with reliance later to inflate the prices down the line, thus all the technology transfer drama.

 

[Sergi]

Just give the damn thing to reliance to manufacture, that is all the fuss is about.... If HAL manufactures the entire system, no private party benefits.

Or buy 60 off-shelf from Dassault and let HAL build rest with their own speed and absorb TOT throughly.

 

[MilSpec]

Or buy 60 off-shelf from Dassault and let HAL build rest with their own speed and absorb TOT throughly.

That is what is being discussed right now.

 

[Sergi]

I dont think Rafale is going to change. It has been selected and it will come to IAF. It's just that some hawks in the south block want subsystems to be directed towards reliance instead of HAL. Dassault see the advantage in that, as they know they can collude with reliance later to inflate the prices down the line, thus all the technology transfer drama.

I am not sure on it anymore. But lets hope you are right.

 

[he-man]

That is what is being discussed right now.

Reliance was far better option.
There is nothing to be absorbed that hal won't get with pakfa

 

[Sergi]

That is what is being discussed right now.

I too though that. But its seem to be another rumour only.
Are you sure about it ????

 

[MilSpec]

I too though that. But its seem to be another rumour only.
Are you sure about it ????

No, I haven't checked with any relevant sources for months now.
actually let me take that back, I don't bother discussing any aviation matters with my friends anymore, it's just too depressing.

Reliance was far better option.
There is nothing to be absorbed that hal won't get with pakfa

You do realize that my comment snide take on Reliance's corrupt practices, right?

 

[he-man]

No, I haven't checked with any relevant sources for months now.


You do realize that my comment snide take on Reliance's corrupt practices, right?

Man this was probably last chance for a private participation on large scale.

At least for next 30 years.

 

[Sergi]

No, I haven't checked with any relevant sources for months now.

My information is negotiations are taking place as in the actual tender. So changes at all. Means only 18 off-shelf.

 

[MilSpec]

Man this was probably last chance for a private participation on large scale.

At least for next 30 years.

ok