Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[GuardianRED]

• One good thing is IAF even though may be portrayed as a devil for choosing Rafale will have a complete technical evaluation to back their choice.
• This has enabled lots of headroom and stone headed approach by IAF who understands why this jet is so important.
• Only an IAF pilot or an insider will talk about corrosion like point or even weather specific packages. In my earlier post i said about TAR (Tibet Autonomous Region) as well as Sandy Desert Hot weather conditions.
• No doubt IAF has already drawn a strategy based on Rafales some good years ago and is actually pushing for it and with newer capabilities addition, they are even more determined.
• The relationship balance does not look bad at all
  • French Line Merignac - X order with 50% offset - 20% localisation 30% R&D type focused offsets
  • Indian MII Line - 2 X french Line Merignac order with the TOT absorption
• This to me is a very considerate proposition bcz no one will give us a hi end jet at peanuts price. Nor we can bargain something without being a bit balanced.
• A order of 54 each for IAF and IN actually keeps Rafale line open, generates more employment and boosts French economy and its citizens welfare.
• In return French side not only invests back but also will feel contended that Indian MII line does not undermine and kill their own industry or existence of a threat due to line being in India.
• A government cannot do everything for mere friendship unless and untill it sees some merit for its own country's welfare and commercial terms shows its benefiting for agreeing to any such deal.
• With the bigger order , its now a full chance to localise the 600 odd supply OEM/vendor in India as well as get the most critical part - Upgrading the metallurgy , technology and skillset to completely make Rafale from raw material stage.
• Add the indigenous Engine project and future upgrades.and access to most important parts like Spectra, Active and Passive Cancellation, capabilities under 5th Gen jet.
• All these are essentially the building blocks of AMCA and a future evolved version of LCA Light category , yes these are the ones which will finally become the mainstay of our fleet over time.

Only now I have accepted that the Rafale is an excellent Pick for the IN, and with reports coming in that there might be a sister ship to Vikrant. A lame man's Q is that the Rafale will have no issue taking off a Ski Slop yes ?

+ im sure it might have been posted before, But where will be MII line for the Rafale be in india?? and last the list of equipment added to the IAF variant of the Rafale (F3I??) would include the HMDS (Topowl?) and pod (Litening G4?) ??

 

[[Bregs]]

While this deal is right on the verge of being signed,it must be added that for having this Rafale fighter in its arsenal the IAF and India at large withstood hell lots of pressure frm US, Russia and others but they stood there ground and after so many yrs got what they always felt it is going to be the game changer induction for IAF

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Spectra for AMCA ? Thats news...

Not just spectra but rather a evolved system based out of it. The AMCA plan as of now have all the technologies that we can understand from say details of F35, F22, PAKFA and some elements of Jseries. Getting them is tough and developing them inhouse requires R& D funds and time. If engine becomes in house and Spectra upgrade like System is available along with other aspects like a high performance AESA radar, more or less it takes away a decade plus research's time and associated R&D by replacing them off the shelf.

Not saying thats the best solution but if we wish to leap frog ahead then it makes sense to get some critical thing in house first like our engine and getting other capable systems from the market.

Only now I have accepted that the Rafale is an excellent Pick for the IN, and with reports coming in that there might be a sister ship to Vikrant. A lame man's Q is that the Rafale will have no issue taking off a Ski Slop yes ?

They wont have issues but i would still like to see them certified and also understand if the payload capacity in any manner is compromised.

http://navyrecognition.com/index.ph...out-the-rafale-m-carrier-capable-variant.html

Need to understand it in a different manner. IF minimal take off length of Rafale is 400 M and suppose it takes off from STOBAR carrier of 260-280-300m, it will have to compromise on MTOW in some manner.

Now consider the new upgraded M88 engine and requisite thrust, we might end up with a much better figure in such a situation wise payload aspect.

@Picdelamirand-oil can give a better detail on this. Its bascially more to do with low speed and canard assisting lift which lets it operate from stobar as well.

+ im sure it might have been posted before, But where will be MII line for the Rafale be in india?? and last the list of equipment added to the IAF variant of the Rafale (F3I??) would include the HMDS (Topowl?) and pod (Litening G4?) ??

Line site cant reveal - 4 different parties have said 3 sites. 2 parties saying a common site under SEZ type granta dn other 2 saying they will get the benefits and special Aero SEZ approved for the zone creation.
List of equipment is more or less defined in broad terms like weapons, customization, HMDS, etc etc.
Pod - Litening G4
HMDS - Topsight same as Mirages, newspapers says Israeli HMDS as well

http://www.financialexpress.com/eco...ister-to-arrive-on-sep-22/381235/?Socialmedia

Edited: Incorrect information in HMDS. Needed to correct it. Added link as well to support the views.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Source Based News

1. CCS /cabinet level go ahead on 21st September
2. French Defence Minister Jean Yves Le Drian and a delegation will come on 23rd September to sign a IGA
3. President Franocis Hollande is coming to India in October when finally the formal contract will be signed.
4. Prez Hollande dates will be known in media within next couple of days
5. Expected to include some more goodies and a fruitful discussion on MII aspect
6. More or less whats in store seems to be this
   1. 36+18+36+18 - 108 (54 for IAF and 54 for IN later date - Merignac Line with 50% investment back to India)
   2. 2 times point 1 numbers in multiple tranches (5+) over MII line. ~200+
7. It is expected that IN all fleet for the initial Rafale M will be from Meriganc Line only.

• The Indian Navy order is expected at the almost end of first 36 delivery period so safely its beyond 2021-22
• The idea is to keep Meriganc line running by aiding orders as well as get quicker delivery schedule
• In return MII order will be done with full cooperation of French Government in order to ensure India's primary task of building fighters in India is met as well as critical transfer envisioned is completed to be used for all future Indian made jets.

Have a great weekend.
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Wow, now if this turns out to be a reality India will have the finest air power outside of the US.


But I do have a query bro, the IN's number seems far too low. By my estimation they will require 5-6 Rafale M SQNs by 2030 considering the IAC-1, IAC-1 sister class and INS VISHAL will have entered service (leaving aside the Vikramditya whose airwing is already established). This means the IN will need at least 80 Rafale Ms plus another 12 for reserve. 54 will be insufficient to cover the IN's needs beyond 2025.


Furthermore,what is the timeline for the roll out of the MII line, now that is the crucial element. It is all well and good coming to such an impressive agreement but if the first Indian built Rafale doesn't roll out until 2030 it will actually be entirely pointless.

Not just spectra but rather a evolved system based out of it. The AMCA plan as of now have all the technologies that we can understand from say details of F35, F22, PAKFA and some elements of Jseries. Getting them is tough and developing them inhouse requires R& D funds and time. If engine becomes in house and Spectra upgrade like System is available along with other aspects like a high performance AESA radar, more or less it takes away a decade plus research's time and associated R&D by replacing them off the shelf.

Not saying thats the best solution but if we wish to leap frog ahead then it makes sense to get some critical thing in house first like our engine and getting other capable systems from the market.


They wont have issues but i would still like to see them certified and also understand if the payload capacity in any manner is compromised.

View attachment 335403

http://navyrecognition.com/index.ph...out-the-rafale-m-carrier-capable-variant.html

Need to understand it in a different manner. IF minimal take off length of Rafale is 400 M and suppose it takes off from STOBAR carrier of 260-280-300m, it will have to compromise on MTOW in some manner.

Now consider the new upgraded M88 engine and requisite thrust, we might end up with a much better figure in such a situation wise payload aspect.

@Picdelamirand-oil can give a better detail on this. Its bascially more to do with low speed and canard assisting lift which lets it operate from stobar as well.



Line site cant reveal - 4 different parties have said 3 sites. 2 parties saying a common site under SEZ type granta dn other 2 saying they will get the benefits and special Aero SEZ approved for the zone creation.
List of equipment is more or less defined in broad terms like weapons, customization, HMDS, etc etc.
HMDS and Pod also Israeli. The general feedback from IAF pilots regarding Litening and Dash series has been very very positive. IMHO its Dash IV. But will wait for the fine print.

Surprised the IAF/IN isn't interested in the TOPSIGHT-I that is already in service on the MIG-29UPG/K and Mirage 2000-5 MK.2 as well as being made in India through a JV between Thales and Samtel. The DASH (III) HMSD is only in service on the LCA.

Not to mention the fact that Dassualt has already done some work on integrating the Rafale with the TOPSIGHT.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Wow, now if this turns out to be a reality India will have the finest air power outside of the US.


But I do have a query bro, the IN's number seems far too low. By my estimation they will require 5-6 Rafale M SQNs by 2030 considering the IAC-1, IAC-1 sister class and INS VISHAL will have entered service (leaving aside the Vikramditya whose airwing is already established). This means the IN will need at least 80 Rafale Ms plus another 12 for reserve. 54 will be insufficient to cover the IN's needs beyond 2025.


Furthermore,what is the timeline for the roll out of the MII line, now that is the crucial element. It is all well and good coming to such an impressive agreement but if the first Indian built Rafale doesn't roll out until 2030 it will actually be entirely pointless.

IN only initial order which will be a priority based order for a urgent ACC planned squadron to be made in merignac. Subsequent all orders are from MII line only.

MII line timeline- Now thats not too much unplanned for... Lets take the reverse case
Assuming elections are due In May 2019
Assume again last 6 months no one wishes to sign a deal and enter into controversy. Typically sluggishness gets seen at least 9 months before hand.

A MII deal with the scope of job creation, skill creation and a big boost to our MIC is an election manifesto item. Thus again at least 9 months before May 2019 again

Thus outer limit is August 2018.

Now Strategic partnership model needs to be fully agreed and revealed for public. Once done MOD needs to evaluate that all strategic partnership criterions are met. Along with due diligence aspect as well. So all this will require at least 7 months easily.

Thus nearest limit is March 2017

So MII line decision should be anywhere between March 2017- August 2018

Conditions apply like Indian Standard Time

Surprised the IAF/IN isn't interested in the TOPSIGHT-I that is already in service on the MIG-29UPG/K and Mirage 2000-5 MK.2 as well as being made in India through a JV between Thales and Samtel. The DASH (III) HMSD is only in service on the LCA.

Not to mention the fact that Dassualt has already done some work on integrating the Rafale with the TOPSIGHT.

Apologies. Its Top Sight as per the whatsapp msg reply. same one going to M2K. Will edit earlier post as well

 

[Abingdonboy]

IN only initial order which will be a priority based order for a urgent ACC planned squadron to be made in merignac. Subsequent all orders are from MII line only.

MII line timeline- Now thats not too much unplanned for... Lets take the reverse case
Assuming elections are due In May 2019
Assume again last 6 months no one wishes to sign a deal and enter into controversy. Typically sluggishness gets seen at least 9 months before hand.

A MII deal with the scope of job creation, skill creation and a big boost to our MIC is an election manifesto item. Thus again at least 9 months before May 2019 again

Thus outer limit is August 2018.

Now Strategic partnership model needs to be fully agreed and revealed for public. Once done MOD needs to evaluate that all strategic partnership criterions are met. Along with due diligence aspect as well. So all this will require at least 7 months easily.

Thus nearest limit is March 2017

So MII line decision should be anywhere between March 2017- August 2018

Conditions apply like Indian Standard Time

As we have discussed in the past bro, the key issue for India is IMPLEMENTATION . So, taking the outer limit of Aug 2018, when would the MII line actually be up and running? This would be a HUGE project requiring an unfathomable number of clearances, agreements, supply chains, infrastructure development, support structures etc etc. I don't doubt that a company like L&T/TATA backed by the GoI and Dassualt/SAFRAN/Thales/etc can get it going swiftly but for that a lot of groundwork would have to be laid NOW.

What is proposed really has never been done in India before and has occurred actually very few times anywhere in the world.

Apologies. Its Top Sight as per the whatsapp msg reply. same one going to M2K. Will edit earlier post as well

No worries bro, that makes more sense

The Indian Rafale is going to be a sweet mix of French/Indian/Israeli tech/weapons.

 

[GuardianRED]

As we have discussed in the past bro, the key issue for India is IMPLEMENTATION . So, taking the outer limit of Aug 2018, when would the MII line actually be up and running? This would be a HUGE project requiring an unfathomable number of clearances, agreements, supply chains, infrastructure development, support structures etc etc. I don't doubt that a company like L&T/TATA backed by the GoI and Dassualt/SAFRAN/Thales/etc can get it going swiftly but for that a lot of groundwork would have to be laid NOW.

What is proposed really has never been done in India before and has occurred actually very few times anywhere in the world.


No worries bro, that makes more sense

The Indian Rafale is going to be a sweet mix of French/Indian/Israeli tech/weapons.

Only one Institution can possibly throw a spanner in these works... Sadly would be HAL

 

[PARIKRAMA]

As we have discussed in the past bro, the key issue for India is IMPLEMENTATION . So, taking the outer limit of Aug 2018, when would the MII line actually be up and running? This would be a HUGE project requiring an unfathomable number of clearances, agreements, supply chains, infrastructure development, support structures etc etc. I don't doubt that a company like L&T/TATA backed by the GoI and Dassualt/SAFRAN/Thales/etc can get it going swiftly but for that a lot of groundwork would have to be laid NOW.

What is proposed really has never been done in India before and has occurred actually very few times anywhere in the world.


No worries bro, that makes more sense

The Indian Rafale is going to be a sweet mix of French/Indian/Israeli tech/weapons.

If suppose approval will be given and signed to initiate work by Aug 2018, add 3 years so by Aug 2021 Line should be ready.

Now initial ones will be kits prepped in France meaning CKD units so CKD forms can actually lead to first unit being ready within 15-18 months easily instead of 3 years from the scratch. In fact CKD units should be even less say more like 12 month considering initial teething issues and first run of the line. Still the line first rafale should be out by Jan 2023 types.

If we do give approval and work is is initiated in 2017 itself, we can prepone it and get the earliest Rafale from MII from 2021-22 types.

This is subject to project execution capabilities and scope of state and central government cooperation to ensure this project is prioritized.

 

[Indiran Chandiran]

If suppose approval will be given and signed to initiate work by Aug 2018, add 3 years so by Aug 2021 Line should be ready.

Now initial ones will be kits prepped in France meaning CKD units so CKD forms can actually lead to first unit being ready within 15-18 months easily instead of 3 years from the scratch. In fact CKD units should be even less say more like 12 month considering initial teething issues and first run of the line. Still the line first rafale should be out by Jan 2023 types.

If we do give approval and work is is initiated in 2017 itself, we can prepone it and get the earliest Rafale from MII from 2021-22 types.

This is subject to project execution capabilities and scope of state and central government cooperation to ensure this project is prioritized.

Fortunately or unfortunately , that means that most of the future inventory of IAF would be coming out of factories at the same time - Tejas Mk-2 , FGFA & Rafale ( MII ) .I'm referring to a timeline of 2023 - 26.

Given the rapidly declining nos of aircraft with the IAF & assuming we have the full quota of Tejas Mk-1a ( not exactly top of the line aircraft ) nducted along with half or three fourths of the Super Sukhoi ( post MLU Sukhoi -30 MKI ) , that still leaves a huge hole in the inventories of fighter aircrafts in the IAG considering that the Jaguars, MIG -29 & Mirage - 2000 would be on their last legs .The full component of MIG - 21 & MIG 27 would be mothballed between 2019 - 2024.

Where will the other nos come from ?? @Abingdonboy & @PARIKRAMA

Don't you think there is a case here for the F-16 ( irrespective of whether it comes with full ToT ) or the Gripen - E ( irrespective of whether it's a potential Tejas Mk - 2 killer.IMHO , irrespective of the similarities between both the Tejas & Gripen , developmental work will not cease & we shall actually see both a naval & air force version of MK 2 .I have some additional points too which I shall make after your posts if you would be kind enough to oblige us with your views )

 

[Taygibay]

Spectra for AMCA ? Thats news...

Not just spectra but rather a evolved system based out of it.

It will have to be called SPECTA or SPECTAM too.

So MII line decision should be anywhere between March 2017- August 2018

And March 2017 is two months before our Presidential elections.
Signing that big a contract right then might . . .

Tay.

 

[randomradio]

It will have to be called SPECTA or SPECTAM too.

AMCA will have its own name when ready, like how LCA is called Tejas.

And March 2017 is two months before our Presidential elections.
Signing that big a contract right then might . . .

No chance of that happening.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

@Picdelamirand-oil can give a better detail on this. Its bascially more to do with low speed and canard assisting lift which lets it operate from stobar as well.

The Rafale takes off at 125 kt. His approach speed is 120 Kt but the flight controls allow a stable and under control situation at only 100 kt.
At the end of the jump the Rafale would have a "ballistic" trajectory under control for which the reactors continues to push to bring it to flight. With a Carrier speed of 28 KT, It is therefore enough to accelerate to a speed of 72 KT relative to the bridge. For this he needs 137 m.

If you want to increase the load carried, you can limit the internal fuel to take off and make a refueling just after takeoff, but this should not be necessary with the upgraded M-88.

 

[JanjaWeed]

Behind Rafale deal: Their ‘strategic’ role in delivery of nuclear weapons

WITH INDIA and France expected to announce the Inter-Government Agreement (IGA) for Rafale fighter jets in the next few days, the clinching factor behind Delhi deciding to buy even only 36 French aircraft has become clearer. The long-delayed deal is being finalised because India has identified the French fighters for their ‘strategic’ role — to deliver nuclear weapons.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) currently has 32 fighter squadrons against an authorisation of 42, and many of them, particularly the MiGs, are reaching the end of their service in this decade. Thirty-six Rafales, to be inducted between 2019 and 2023, will make for only two squadrons. This still leaves a huge gap, to be filled by either the indigenous Tejas fighters, or another foreign fighter such as the Swedish Gripen or the American F-16, both of which have offered to ‘Make in India’.

Although there is a follow-up clause in the IGA for buying an additional 18 Rafales, the numbers still fall short of the 126 Rafales India had originally planned to buy under the previous UPA government.

According to officials who spoke to The Sunday Express on condition of anonymity, the deciding factor in buying the Rafales, even in such small numbers, was its ability “to be used as an airborne strategic delivery system”. In other words, Rafale is expected to be the chosen fighter plane for the delivery of nuclear weapons in a strike role.

“The French Air Force, Armee de l’ Air, is shifting from Mirages to Rafales for its nuclear strike role this year. They have already started the process, and although our nuclear delivery systems are different from theirs, it does tell us that Rafale is suited for that task,” said a defence official.

“The French Mirage-2000s have been modified for the delivery of our strategic arsenal. France has continued to provide maintenance, spares and technical support for these Mirages, which may not have been the case with some other foreign countries. We expect the same degree of cooperation from France when we modify and use the Rafales for that role,” said another official.

At present, IAF is supposed to use modified Mirage-2000 fighters in a nuclear strike role. But these upgraded Mirages are scheduled to be phased out of service from 2030 onwards. According to officials, a replacement for them would be needed, and India’s comfort with Paris on these matters makes it logical to go with Rafales for this critical task.

Meanwhile, sources have confirmed that India has extended an invite to the French defence minister, Jean Yves Le Drian, to visit Delhi next week. Although a formal confirmation from Paris was not received till Friday, the two sides are expected to announce the signing of an IGA for 36 Rafales next week.

Following a Cabinet Committee on Security approval, a contract, if things go as per schedule, should be signed within 45 days. An advance of 10-15 per cent of total contract value is expected to be paid to the French government at the signing of the contract.

During his visit to Paris last April, Prime Minister Narendra Modi had announced the purchase of 36 Rafale fighters in a government-to-government deal with France. This followed a decade-long process of trials and selection of Rafales for the 126 Medium Multi Range Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender, which could not be concluded. The MMRCA tender was formally withdrawn by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar later last year.

India and France underwent a series of negotiations over the price of the 36 fighters, and the two sides agreed to a final price of about Euro 7.87 billion a few weeks ago. Although all the fighters will be made in France, Rafale will invest 50 per cent of the value of the deal as offsets in India. The delivery of the first fighter aircraft is scheduled for 2019.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-role-in-delivery-of-nuclear-weapons-3036852/

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Key points
Thanks @JanjaWeed for posting Sushant Singh's article

According to officials who spoke to The Sunday Express on condition of anonymity, the deciding factor in buying the Rafales, even in such small numbers, was its ability “to be used as an airborne strategic delivery system”. In other words, Rafale is expected to be the chosen fighter plane for the delivery of nuclear weapons in a strike role

.

At present, IAF is supposed to use modified Mirage-2000 fighters in a nuclear strike role. But these upgraded Mirages are scheduled to be phased out of service from 2030 onwards. According to officials, a replacement for them would be needed, and India’s comfort with Paris on these matters makes it logical to go with Rafales for this critical task.

Following a Cabinet Committee on Security approval, a contract, if things go as per schedule, should be signed within 45 days.

An advance of 10-15 per cent of total contract value is expected to be paid to the French government at the signing of the contract.

• Key points are basically what has been said before here. Time and again the roles in SFC which with these crafts basically will become a full fledged 40+36 = 76 Jets with always available 30+32=62 at any point of time for operational convenience.
• This also now enables to understand why there is an extra Logistics based performance and spare contract for Euro 353 Mn and a massive customization based on climatic conditions (which o course becomes common for all the craft thats purchased).
• Indications are rest of the fleet standard availability may be restricted to 75% and external packages may not be signed
• This saves almost Euro 10Mn approx per plane for 15% additional availability which we plan to improve via way of availability of parts and spares in our Rafale production ecosystem
• Thus Prez Hollande coming for contract schedule gets the timeline from Sept end to Oct end to max Nov beginning. But its October as i posted above
• I also said Q3/Q4 money will be released long back.

+++

@Spectre
I did leave a message to the people and what i am coming to know does not sound too good to me.

• Presently not all and in fact most MKIs are not inside shelter.
• In general most airbases are having open parking.
• The shelters are mil standards of old erstwhile time which even a 1000 pound + bomb will destroy easily.
• There is a parliamentary report on this as well as CAG pointers saying MKI does not even have a standard 2000 lb bomb proof shelter.
• Government had replied that IAF had submitted a request for New Generation Hardened Aircraft Shelter (NGHAS) which will enable it to be protected and yet weapons change, and loading + maintenance can be done from that shelter itself
• This item is clubbed under The Modernisation of Airfield Infrastructure or MAFI and the present timeline for delivering around 30 such bases pan India is around 5+ years away.
• But for that to succeed the request is pending for Rs 60,000 Crores or approx $9 Bn of grant for multiple years and per year about $1.5Bn or Rs10k Crores is used for the same.
• Still there is a wide gap between actual required and approved implying terrible slow process of getting NGHAS bases.
• Thus for MKI infrastructure new additional costs are there which of course is not told in public and in simple words, the fleet size numbers makes it justifiable.
• These costs in todays era will escalate a fresh MKI at super config to more than double the cost and ballpark assessments is in the range of $250 Mn when other aspects of repairs, service, engine life, weather issues, availability upgrade, etc
• In the words of the source, IAF has done 1:1 assessment submitted to MOD when asked about the comparative price of Rafale and MKI in a tabular form to have a clear understanding and it was proved and independently verified by MOD that Rafale packaged price came lower than MKI for a similar setup based packaged deal.
• It was uptill this point DM MP negotiated to get a proper justification of financial part of the deal.

Now some quotes from 16th standing parliamentary committee

+++
Indian Express did an article last year on this
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...khoi-30-fighters-have-no-protective-shelters/

Quotes
The committee members were also informed by representatives of the MoD that the NGHAS “is a large project and it costs thousands of crores of rupees”. It was further informed that NGHAS are specialised structures and “are designed to save a Sukhoi-30 MKI aircraft from direct hit of 2000 lbs bomb”.

The committee, which is headed by Major General BC Khanduri (retd) noted that it is extremely pertinent that no damage is caused to the available aircraft. It also said that while the New Generation Hardened Aircraft Shelter (NGHAS) project is conceptualised for this purpose, nevertheless, the committee desired that there should not be any delay in execution, as such delays have become a common feature of all the projects.

In its recently tabled report on the manufacture of Sukhoi-30 MKI by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) too had pointed out certain anomalies with the aircraft due to it being parked in the open sun.

The CAG report had mentioned that a review of 42 cases of repairs undertaken by HAL in Sukhoi 30 MKI, up to March 2010, disclosed that fuel leakage was the main snag in 36 cases and complaints relating to leakage from fuel tank were reported by IAF immediately after delivery of the aircraft. The leakages had caused pre-mature withdrawal of the aircraft from active flying.

Among the reasons that that been attributed for the problem were that the Sukhoi-30 MKI had been “parked outside in hot conditions”. The HAL management had told CAG that the other reasons for leakages were operating the aircraft at higher ‘g’ levels, high manoeuvers and hard landings and aircraft parked without fuel for longer time. They had added that fuel leakages could not be fully excluded due to inherent design features of the aircraft.

+++
If you see the above report you will get two points in mind quickly

1. The need of a NGHAS for our aircrafts
2. Harsh Weather effects and other associated technical issues.

Thus, this implied IAF and MOD has learned some lessons and the results are seen in this deal as well like

• Procurement of a Base meeting minimum NATO standard as well as in country NGHAS standard
• Weather ill effects being clearly inputted in the initial contract signing itself.
• Existing old bases non confirming to NGHAS does not enable repalcement of fighters by Rafales owing to size compatibility issue as well as Ageing of older structures

If you see the package details its covered here, these points were adequately covered

https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-327#post-8688450

+++



@Abingdonboy @Ankit Kumar 002 @anant_s @Vergennes @Taygibay @Picdelamirand-oil @MilSpec @randomradio @Armani @GuardianRED @R!CK https://defence.pk/members/bregs.148509/

 

[Acknowledge]

The detail of the whole cost is unknown. It's only assumption from some of us.
Maybe these costs hide something else....

And if I remember well, F3R doesn't include a helmet... Seems that French air force doesn't trust on HMD so far.

Integrating Astra, Ligntning pod, russian missiles or bombs cost a lot.

What is quite sure is that the total number of Rafale in IAF can't stay at 36.

Yes. It is almost certain that the balance 18 will be ordered. That's the standard way MoD places orders. It almost always executes the follow on contract.

But I personally doubt that more Rafales will be ordered after the 36+18. They will replace the Mirages on a more than 1:1 ratio while giving higher uptime than the Mirages.