China, India scaled 'astronomical' heights when West was in Dark Ages

[namefield_empty]

Well, you are giving benefit of doubt by calling Shashanka's criticism exaggerated when there are documented evidence while supporting all the criticism of Bakhtiyar Khalji or Muslims in general, isn't it a bit biased?

We, both you and me, shouldn't really rely on what we were taught at schools on such historical matters for obvious reasons.

To be precise, my point was that the stupas in Bharhut and Sanchi were respectively built and renovated during Pushyamitra's reign, so there is some amount of contradiction there.

Also, Buddhism fell in decline to the the lack of royal patronage and the religion was mostly concentrated around their monasteries and viharas. And that is precisely where the invaders struck, obliterating the remnants.

 

[Species]

To be precise, my point was that the stupas in Bharhut and Sanchi were respectively built and renovated during Pushyamitra's reign, so there is some amount of contradiction there.

Also, Buddhism fell in decline to the the lack of royal patronage and the religion was mostly concentrated around their monasteries and viharas. And that is precisely where the invaders struck, obliterating the remnants.

As I have read, at the end of Pala Empire, the last Buddhist dynasty in Bengal, the population was pretty much evenly divided between Buddhists and Hindus. Come Sena Dynasty, the vast majority became Hindus. There are also Buddhist accounts of how they were tortured by the Sena rulers. It's pretty much obvious that Buddhism had already become almost extinct even before the arrival of Muslim rulers.

 

[Gadkari]

Genius, there were cameras in 17th century? Or you used time machine to travel there and take these pictures?

As the caption says, these 'slaves' are Indian migrant labors in South Africa brought by British, most likely from Gujarat or Bihar as most Indians in Africa are from these regions.

Yet, I do agree there were slavery. It was due to the Portuguese pirates in Bay of Bengal who used to kidnap locals and sell them as slaves. The slavery stopped only with Mughal conquest of Chittagong in the late 17th century which was the main base for the Portuguese in this region.

LOL.... don't worry, they are bengali slaves. Are you in denial ?

Slavery was especially prevalent in Bihar sharief, North Bihar and North Bengal wherever the nobility was represented by the Muslims and the Islamic law prevailed.

There were many slaves at the end of the 18th century in N.Bihar, N.Bengal, especially towards Assam and the whole of northern frontier. Sale of non Muslim debtors was in common practice. Governors would seize wives and children of those cultivators who could not pay off revenue.

Your "Nawabs" couldn't care less about his subjects who he considered Slaves anyway. It was a free for all including the colonial powers.

Take a look at the text below,

Buddhism was in sharp decline before the arrival of muslims due to Shivaik hostility. According to the historian S. R. Goyal, the decline of Buddhism in India is the result of the hostility of Brahmins. Ruler Shashanka of Gauda destroyed the Buddhist images and Bodhi tree. Nalanda was destroyed twice before Muslims, the university fell upon hard times when it was overrun by the Huns under Mihirakula during the reign of Skandgupta (455-467 AD). But it was restored by his successors. The university was destroyed again by the Gaudas in the early 7th century but was restored again by king Harshvardhana (606-648 AD).

In both the cases the conquering king came chasing the ministers (Brahmins) who took refuge in the university. The resulting co-lateral damage was corrected by the same kings.

But what Khilji did was DELIBERATE.

I am not interested in the Opinion of S.R . GOyal, only FACTS from Original sources.

Hiuen Tsang wrote "Sasanka-raja,being a believer in heresy, slandered the religion of Buddha and through envy destroyed the convents and cut down the Bodhi tree (at Buddha Gaya), digging it up to the very springs of the earth; but yet be did not get to the bottom of the roots. Then he burnt it with fire and sprinkled it with the juice of sugar-cane, desiring to destroy them entirely, and not leave a trace of it behind. Such was Sasanka's hatred towards Buddhism."

There is NOTHING here about destroying any university. Only a perticular religious symbol and structure.

Also its rather obvious Hiuen Tsang is reporting "Hear Say" probably by a bitter Buddhist survivor. He is not a observer of these acts.

In obvious fact, the historical evidence proves that much before invasion of Bakhtiyar Khilji, Nalanda University had already fallen to ruins because of the rivalry of Hinayana (simple Mahayana) and Mahayana influenced with the ideas of Brahminism. Indeed, there was another Mahavihara in Odantapuri (modern Bihar Sharif in Nalanda District) inside the fort of the local king which was partially affected in the course of battle between the forces of Bakhtiyar Khilji and the local king in 1197 or 1198 AD. The chronicle, Tabaqat-i-Nasiri of Minhaj-i –Siraj, which is usually referred to be historical record of the time, apparently refers to this place and does not even mention the name of Nalanda. Presumably, Nalanda was then a desolate place.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/muha...lji-a-hero-or-villain-to-bangladeshis.398117/

@Gadkari

PURE SPECULATION . ZERO EVIDENCE. In short, propaganda piece.

 

[Species]

LOL.... don't worry, they are bengali slaves. Are you in denial ?

Slavery was especially prevalent in Bihar sharief, North Bihar and North Bengal wherever the nobility was represented by the Muslims and the Islamic law prevailed.

There were many slaves at the end of the 18th century in N.Bihar, N.Bengal, especially towards Assam and the whole of northern frontier. Sale of non Muslim debtors was in common practice. Governors would seize wives and children of those cultivators who could not pay off revenue.

Your "Nawabs" couldn't care less about his subjects who he considered Slaves anyway. It was a free for all including the colonial powers.

Slavery was there all over the world at that time, what point are you trying to make? Where did I deny te presence of slavery?

What I said was about the picture you inserted,

This picture is not of slaves from Bengal during the Muslim rule as you claimed before (use your common sense as to how they got a camera in 17th century). Rather these people are Indian migrant labors in South Africa brought by British as the caption says, most likely from Gujarat or Bihar as most Indians in Africa are from these regions.

In both the cases the conquering king came chasing the ministers (Brahmins) who took refuge in the university. The resulting co-lateral damage was corrected by the same kings.

But what Khilji did was DELIBERATE.

I am not interested in the Opinion of S.R . GOyal, only FACTS from Original sources.



There is NOTHING here about destroying any university. Only a perticular religious symbol and structure.

Also its rather obvious Hiuen Tsang is reporting "Hear Say" probably by a bitter Buddhist survivor. He is not a observer of these acts.



PURE SPECULATION . ZERO EVIDENCE. In short, propaganda piece.

^Typical Indian denial of documented facts, nothing to say here.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

LOL.... don't worry, they are bengali slaves. Are you in denial ?

Slavery was especially prevalent in Bihar sharief, North Bihar and North Bengal wherever the nobility was represented by the Muslims and the Islamic law prevailed.

There were many slaves at the end of the 18th century in N.Bihar, N.Bengal, especially towards Assam and the whole of northern frontier. Sale of non Muslim debtors was in common practice. Governors would seize wives and children of those cultivators who could not pay off revenue.

Your "Nawabs" couldn't care less about his subjects who he considered Slaves anyway. It was a free for all including the colonial powers.

In both the cases the conquering king came chasing the ministers (Brahmins) who took refuge in the university. The resulting co-lateral damage was corrected by the same kings.

But what Khilji did was DELIBERATE.

I am not interested in the Opinion of S.R . GOyal, only FACTS from Original sources.



There is NOTHING here about destroying any university. Only a perticular religious symbol and structure.

Also its rather obvious Hiuen Tsang is reporting "Hear Say" probably by a bitter Buddhist survivor. He is not a observer of these acts.



PURE SPECULATION . ZERO EVIDENCE. In short, propaganda piece.

You sir are a fraud, if you are to be believed, Hindus and Buddhists lived in India as bosom buddies before the Mughal invasion. I don't mind genuine scholars who itemize whatever acts of aggression the mughals committed during their rule - they were after all invaders who stayed in their new territory and worked on moulding it in their own image and ultimately improving it. What I don't like however is revisionists with an inferiority complex who pretend ancient Brahmins had no ulterior designs on other contemporary tribes in their region. I am no historian and yet I can see that it is well documented that plenty of Hindus conspired to bring about the end of Buddhism in India, without any assistance from the Mughals.

 

[SipahSalar]

India was under Muslim rule back then during its golden ages.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

PURE SPECULATION . ZERO EVIDENCE. In short, propaganda piece.

And yet the same poster wishes us to accept orientalist British accounts about slavery in Bengal as accurate historical records?

"Mihirakula is said to have razed 1600 viharas, stupas and monasteries, and “put to death 900 Kotis, or lay adherents of Buddhism” [Joshi, 404].
The Aryamanjushrimulakalpa tells us that Pushyamitra “destroyed monasteries with relics and killed monks of good conduct.” [Jayaswal, 18-19].

The celebrated Tibetan historian Lama Taranatha mentions the march of Pushyamitra from Madhyadesha to Jalandhara. In the course of his campaigns, the book states, Pushyamitra burned down numerous Buddhist monasteries and killed a number of learned monks The archaeological evidence for the ravages wrought by Pushyamitra and other Hindu fanatic rulers on famous Buddhist shrines is abundant.

Why should I not believe any of the above accounts? Is it all propaganda too?

 

[Gadkari]

Slavery was there all over the world at that time, what point are you trying to make? Where did I deny te presence of slavery?

What I said was about the picture you inserted,

This picture is not of slaves from Bengal during the Muslim rule as you claimed before (use your common sense as to how they got a camera in 17th century). Rather these people are Indian migrant labors in South Africa brought by British as the caption says, most likely from Gujarat or Bihar as most Indians in Africa are from these regions.

1. Slavery did not exist in INdia bfore the islamic invasion.

2. I never said those pictures are from the 17th century. Typical straw man and red herring.

3. Those pictures are of Bengali slaves. Even a cursory look at their faces will Ethnicity. (for Indians at least)

^Typical Indian denial of documented facts, nothing to say here.

LOL..... Where are the Facts ? Where is the original source ? Opinions are not Facts.

You sir are a fraud, if you are to be believed, Hindus and Buddhists lived in India as bosom buddies before the Mughal invasion. I don't mind genuine scholars who itemize whatever acts of aggression the mughals committed during their rule - they were after all invaders who stayed in their new territory and worked on moulding it in their own image and ultimately improving it. What I don't like however is revisionists with an inferiority complex who pretend ancient Brahmins had no ulterior designs on other contemporary tribes in their region. I am no historian and yet I can see that it is well documented that plenty of Hindus conspired to bring about the end of Buddhism in India, without any assistance from the Mughals.

Buddhists lived for a 1000 years in India along with the Hindus in peace. They disappeared the moment the islamic invasion happens. What does that tell you ? lol.

Buddhists are just another branch of Hinduism ........ except for some kings who choose to promote certain sect, no Hindu ever had a problem with any Buddhist.

 

[Species]

1. Slavery did not exist in INdia bfore the islamic invasion.

2. I never said those pictures are from the 17th century. Typical straw man and red herring.

3. Those pictures are of Bengali slaves. Even a cursory look at their faces will Ethnicity. (for Indians at least)



LOL..... Where are the Facts ? Where is the original source ? Opinions are not Facts.

As somebody said above you are a fraud, with naked historical forgery.

The caption of the picture itself says the people are Indian labors in South Africa. They were brought there by the British. Most Indians in Africa are from Gujarat and Bihar, and those people also seem to be Gujaratis and Biharis.

The sources are already there in texts, but you don't accept Huan Xang or Minhaj-i –Siraj, the contemporary witnesses as source.

 

[055_destroyer]

Instead of trying to get a friend in India, you have antagonized India, and India would rather see US win than China at this point.

The only Indian antagonized is you and the only Indian who would rather US win is also you. You are just a frustrated Indian jealous that India lacks behind China at this point. Nobody will claim India lacks behind forever but the only sourgrape now is you.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

“Just, O brethren, as the great rivers, when they have emptied themselves into the Great Ocean, lose their different names and are known as the Great Ocean Just so, O brethren, do the four varnas—Kshatriya, Brahmin, Vaishya and Sudra—when they begin to follow the doctrine and discipline propounded by the Tathagata [i.e. the Buddha], renounce the different names of caste and rank and become the members of one and the same society.”

These are wise words of Buddha. No wonder brahminism felt threatened. Yet AGAIN, it is the caste system, I.e. the very core of brahminism , that is singled out for attack by non-Hindus throughout the history of Hindustan. Is there anything that so unites the various non-Hindus who have been a part of Indian history quite as much as their universal opposition to caste?? Buddha himself, along with Muslims openly appealed to lower castes to abandon brahministic hegemony, and hence Brahmins would always be opposed to them both. The British meanwhile cunningly exploited brahminism by returning to the Brahmins some of the favourable privileges that had been stripped back by the mughals - why wouldn't they? Unlike Buddhists and mughals, the brits didn't care at all for nerfing Brahmin hegemony, they simply wanted to divide and conquer and take home the bucks by any means necessary. To their credit, Buddha and the mughals both felt the slavery of caste should be suppressed or at best, nullified completely. But it was impossible to save these millions who had been brainwashed by their Brahmin overlords. They remain so even today.

 

[namefield_empty]

As I have read, at the end of Pala Empire, the last Buddhist dynasty in Bengal, the population was pretty much evenly divided between Buddhists and Hindus. Come Sena Dynasty, the vast majority became Hindus. There are also Buddhist accounts of how they were tortured by the Sena rulers. It's pretty much obvious that Buddhism had already become almost extinct even before the arrival of Muslim rulers.

As we have already discussed, major changes underwent during that time in both Hinduism and Buddhism. Buddhism began to accept many Hindu practices and rituals whereas the Hindus considered Lord Buddha as one of the avatars of Vishnu. Senas were orthodox Hindus, but the persecution that you speak of against the Buddhists hold little ground. Vikramshila was still standing by the time their empire came under the attack of Bakhtiyar Khilji.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

So yes my Hindutva friends, go ahead and wax lyrical about the mughals this and the mughals that, and keep pretending that magical brahminism is the utopia we all seek ..... I think we know better after 2000+ years of history. Brahminism held the subcontinent back dramatically. It subjugated millions as a prototypical form of slavery. Brahminism remains part of the recommended syllabus for all manner of past and present Nazis, neo-Nazis, ethnoreligious cleansers, practitioners of apartheid and right wing terrorist. Where else do we see the swastika other than in old movies of Hitler and WW2?? This is no coincidence. Buddha knew it. The mughals knew it. Even the British knew it and probably had a good chuckle when they realised how easily they could use Hindus to overthrow the mughals because of it. Hindus handed the Indian subcontinent on a plate to the Brits, so there is no point crying over lost mathematical equations and the number zero now. The Mughals were the one great chance the subcontinent had to become a superpower. Hindutva and Brahmins destroyed that because of their never-ending inferiority complex. Good luck in the coming millennium.

 

[Gadkari]

And yet the same poster wishes us to accept orientalist British accounts about slavery in Bengal as accurate historical records?

"Mihirakula is said to have razed 1600 viharas, stupas and monasteries, and “put to death 900 Kotis, or lay adherents of Buddhism” [Joshi, 404].
The Aryamanjushrimulakalpa tells us that Pushyamitra “destroyed monasteries with relics and killed monks of good conduct.” [Jayaswal, 18-19].

The celebrated Tibetan historian Lama Taranatha mentions the march of Pushyamitra from Madhyadesha to Jalandhara. In the course of his campaigns, the book states, Pushyamitra burned down numerous Buddhist monasteries and killed a number of learned monks The archaeological evidence for the ravages wrought by Pushyamitra and other Hindu fanatic rulers on famous Buddhist shrines is abundant.

Why should I not believe any of the above accounts? Is it all propaganda too?

I have posted eye witness accounts and Fist hand accounts. Unlike others who have posted opnions and second hand knowledge.

"Arya manjushri mula " is the ONLY original source you have mentioned and the book clearly states that the mantras taught in the Shaiva, Garuda and Vaishnava tantras will be effective if applied by Buddhists since they were all taught originally by Manjushri. (Which is another name for Shiva). Its a book on Hindu Tantra, to be used as buddhsit tantra.

Aryamanjushrimulakalpa only speaks only of a wicked and foolish king named Gomimukhya ("cattle-faced"), or Gomishanda ("Gomin, the bull"), who seized the territory from the east to Kashmir, destroying monasteries and killing monks. Ultimately, he and his officers were killed in the north by falling mountain rocks. ............ linking this person to pushyamitar is PURE SPECULATION without an iota of proof.

Lama Taranatha speaks of a different Pushyamitra, the grandson of Emperor Ashoka. When asked how he could be a king, he was told he could either build 84,000 Stupas like his Grandfather, or destroy 84,000 stupas to be crowned king. He choose the later as per the Ashokavadana (a widely discredited book). Nothing to do with religion. Just Ambition.


But since you consider opinions as Facts, you are free to believe anything you want.

As somebody said above you are a fraud, with naked historical forgery.

The caption of the picture itself says the people are Indian labors in South Africa. They were brought there by the British. Most Indians in Africa are from Gujarat and Bihar, and those people also seem to be Gujaratis and Biharis.

The sources are already there in texts, but you don't accept Huan Xang or Minhaj-i –Siraj, the contemporary witnesses as source.

I have accepted Huan Xang and he himself has stated that he is not a eyewitness to his claims. His knowledge is second hand.

What about Minhaj I siraj ? What did he witness ?

 

[masterchief_mirza]

"Buddhists lived for a 1000 years in India along with the Hindus in peace. They disappeared the moment the islamic invasion happens. What does that tell you ? lol. "

Aww exposing your true Hindutva agenda so early in the game? I'm disappointed.

"
1. Slavery did not exist in INdia bfore the islamic invasion. "

Come on... Don't kid yourself now. CASTE SYSTEM!